To cruise or not to cruise

Submitted: Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 08:49
ThreadID: 133160 Views:3844 Replies:13 FollowUps:8
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Hi all,

I'm currently at a loss with my choice of 4x4's. I recently sold my 94 troppy which my wife and I drove around the world. We wanted something with more space (the troopy only had 2 seats), better fuel economy (was bad with auto trans and turbo fitted) and something a little more modern.

I use to have a petrol GU patrol. Loved the car but it was a little thirsty.
For this reason I recently purchased a MY08 Patrol CRD. I've owned it for less than a month and its back on car sales. Don't like it at all, under powered, unrefined and the fuel consumption is not much better than the troopy.

I'm now considering a 100 series, the car has to be auto because I'm paraplegic.

I love the 1HD-FTE engine but a little worried about the IFS front end. After owning two patrols and a troopy the driveline are pretty solid in these units.

I would love to step into the newer VDJ79 but they are all manual. I have actually been looking at marks 4wd's 6 auto speed conversion but it ain't cheap! I'm also a little concerned about what I've read about fuel and oil consumption issues with these CRD motors.

I like the idea of the Di diesel as it much more simple, proven and less to go wrong with it, particularly when it comes to long term maintenance (mainly fuel system I'm concerned about)

So my questions are -

Are the CRD V8 motors really that problematic in terms of oil consumption or is it just the few unlucky owners that you hear from on the net. From what I've read it is more an issue for the earlier motors. Vacuum oil pump or bad oil feed pipe apparently?

Anyone on here that has owned both that can compare the fuel consumption?

And is the 100 series IFS setup something to be avoided if you don't want to shy away from the rough stuff?

Also the price difference between 1HD-FTE troopys and the V8 ones is very strange. You can get a much lower km and newer V8 troopy compared to the 1HD-FTE's which seem to holding their value very well. I'm guessing this is due to the good/bad reputation of both motors.


Thanks in advance!
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Reply By: TomH - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:13

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:13
The problem with the control arms was limited to a specific range of Vin numbers about 2002 when a welding robot had a drunken binge. Once it sobered up there were no more problems. If you are still worried there are firms that sell heavy duty versions of the arms which have a plate attached and fully welded.

A 2005-2007 100ser diesel would be the ideal vehicle. The V8's like a drink.

Was the 200 ser that the early ones liked oil and it was the luck of the draw apparently. Some did Some didnt.

My 100TDI gave me 10-12L per 100km at speed limit travelling solo and an average of 17.6L per 100km when loaded and towing nearly 3000kg
AnswerID: 603135

Reply By: rumpig - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:13

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:13
The IFS 100 is a proven reliable and comfortable vehicle, that is the reason they are so sort after and hold their value so well. A mate of mine owns a 1HDFTE IFS 100 and has toured Australia extensively in it and done plenty of tough stuff in it with our old 4wd club, all without issue...plenty of others would be in the same book also. I own a dual cab 79 series currently and it's a great work truck and tow vehicle, but nowhere near as comfortable as my old 105 series Landcruiser was that I had before this to drive. The turning circle in my 79 is atrocious, not just bad but atrocious....i'm happy with the 79 as it suits my purpose as a work tow vehicle and occasional family holiday tow tug, but if I was retired and full time touring I'd prefer to have the IFS 100 to do it in over a 79 series myself. In saying all that, add the 6 speed auto and rear wheel track correction and coil conversion plus cruise control onto my 79 series, and my decision would likely be different....still wouldn't change it's woeful turning circle though.
AnswerID: 603136

Reply By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:17

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:17
hi,
welcome back from your trip. Glad it went well.

we did a similar trip in our troopy and have also now reluctantly sold it. We have had a 100series 1hdfte auto a long time which we use for touring and towing. It is a great vehicle and we find it very comfortable.

Ours is a 2004 model which has the better gearbox 5spd vs 4. Changed in 2002/2003 I think. I have upgraded the suspension and 2"lift, dif drop in the front, biltstein shocks all round, polyairs in the back to adjust the ride height with load, long ranger tank - 270L all up, electric lockers f/r, centre dif mod, winch, compressor, dual bat, egr block, drawers etc.

I find the IFS suspension absolutely fine and gives a good ride as well as enough articulation for normal off road. The rigid front axle in the 105 series is better in rock crawler type work but we don't do that.

I considered a switch to a new 200 series some 3 years ago but after driving it felt it was not a great step up from my modified 100 series. It was very good and more sophisticated but not worth the extra $ for the upgrade in my view. We are staying with the 100 long term.

The newer smaller capacity hi performance diesels are very impressive but I am old fashioned and like the larger less stressed engines which are also in my experience more tolerant of varying fuel quality. Our vehicle has done a lot of hauling of heavy trailers etc and just does it with no fuss. I get fuel consumption ranging from 11.5 to 18.5 L/100km depending on conditions and load.

On a typical touring trip we get around 12.5 to 13.5. I rarely go over 100km as I find the fuel consumption rises rapidly above that and frankly we like to look at the view which is nicer and safer at slower speeds.

I also like the simpler engine and the parts are cheaper than the newer crd units. I have needed very few and most things are still original.

best of luck.
AnswerID: 603137

Follow Up By: mountainman - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 18:16

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 18:16
The 4spd auto is actually the stonger box.
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FollowupID: 872828

Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 21:19

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 21:19
The 4spd might be stronger but has a poor ratio selection in comparison to the 5spd. You can travel all day towing in 4th at 90kph in the later one but to do so in 3rd in the 4sp it roars its head off. Have driven both and would never have the 4
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FollowupID: 872834

Follow Up By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 09, 2016 at 14:07

Tuesday, Aug 09, 2016 at 14:07
I agree with Tom the 5spd is functionally great. I have done lots of towing and off road work and it has never let me down. I find it is very adaptive and once you get to know it finding the right gear is easy.

The rule of thumb to use 4th if you are towing. This stops the overdrive being selected and means that the torque converter has a much easier time. Never had a problem with the box getting hot.
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FollowupID: 872883

Reply By: Tim F3 - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:42

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:42
I have a 2002 100 series ifs manual factory turbo diesal.
It has 355000klm and the original clutch was changed last week..cost $440 labour plus parts about $1700 all up.

These vehicles are comfortable , simple and reasonably low cost to maintain , plus hold their value better than most others.

Having said that have you considered a v8 petrol 100 series , ? Recently i asked people on this forum their fuel figures...from what was posted there only seemed to be about 20 % real difference. Plus they can be cheaper to purchase and are reliable.There was a complete v8 engine on ebay recently asking $5000 ...cheaper than a fuel pump on some diesals..
AnswerID: 603138

Follow Up By: axle - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 12:01

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 12:01
The v8 petrol is good on fuel for the power produced,but the pistons have a very short skirt which can cause piston slap very early in their life, and the bottom end is vunerable to premature wear. speaking from experience with a 04 model that gave me heaps of grief a few years ago.



Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: gbc - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 10:04

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 10:04
What about a y62 patrol? If I was buying new they'd be on my look at list for sure with the price drops they've had. They aren't the fuel guzzlers they were made out to be.
AnswerID: 603139

Follow Up By: mountainman - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 18:22

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 18:22
Cough cough....they are nowhere in the same league as the mighty 1HD FTE.
woefully underpowered the hand grenade pootrol 3ltr or its it 2.5ltr now
Youll never ever loose out on the 1HD FTE Vehicle be it ute or wagon.
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FollowupID: 872829

Follow Up By: gbc - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 19:34

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 19:34
The y62 is a 300 kW v8 petrol.
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FollowupID: 872830

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 19:58

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 19:58
Depends on why you are worried about fuel consumption.
Re Cost of fuel: ULP is currently 90cpl in Adelaide and diesel just over a dollar. Its the cheapest its been for 10 years.
Re Range: Yep this is the main reason to go diesel.
Re reliability: the tables have turned and the petrol vehicles are equal to or better than the diesels.

So say you had $40,000 to spend? What options would suit (given you need an automatic):
#1 And my first choice is an FJ Cruiser provided you can fit your gear in it. The suicide doors might actually give you good access. Very reliable 4L motor with auto transmission and great 4wd ability with standard rear diff lock. My son owns one and it gets the same fuel consumption as my 200series diesel.
#2 A 200series Petrol V8: the bargain of the 4wd market, but you'd need to add a long range tank to get the range.
#3 An Isuzu MU-X if you like the diesels, but you'd need a long range tank.
#4 The other 4wd utes
AnswerID: 603142

Reply By: Mudripper - Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 23:45

Saturday, Aug 06, 2016 at 23:45
Go for the 1HD-FTE 100 series. You won't regret the move!

Cheers
AnswerID: 603144

Reply By: rb30e - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 08:42

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 08:42
Thanks all for your comments, very helpful.

Phil G you have just thrown a huge spanner in the works mentioning the petrol 200. I have had a look and your not wrong about them being a bargain. You can get them for almost half the price of a diesel with similar km and age. Seems they are just as capable with marginally higher fuel consumption.
Thing that I'm now considering, particularly after buying the crd patrol with 170k on it is the extra maintenance on the diesels. Particularly the 4.5TD in the 79. I'm not sure when people have started noticing ware on the fuel system with the Toyota but after some research with the patrols anywhere from 150k onwards you are looking at a set of injectors at about $500 a pop. This is bad enough on a 4 cyl but on the 4.5 V8 your up for big dollars. Where as a petrol engine on the other hand you can do double that and not have to worry bout the fuel system. Even the 100, as previously mentioned the fuel pump is the same price as a complete V8 petrol motor!

It's likely that either the 100 or 79 series that I can afford will have the type of km on it that these expensive items will need the maintenance. Where as the petrol I don't have to worry bout having to factor in the potential extra cost.

I think I got bitten by this on the patrol, it used 16l/100 on the outback hwy cruising at about 105km no caravan, on my own, almost no load, headwind, hills or anything to stop for. Plus you can feel it kinda surge from time to time and has on a few occasions almost cut out completely. I have cleaned the MAF and changed filters and engine oil but it seems there are bigger issues with the fuel system.

We don't plan on towing big heavy caravans, I have a 15ft fibreglass boat probably just over a ton on trailer and that's the heaviest load I tow. We have recently bought a house too so no plans to do the grey nomad thing just the occasional weekend away or maybe 1-2 weeks off work for a bit holiday but at this stage they will be few and far between. My wife and I both have daily drivers too so it's more of a play thing than anything else.

Ah dam now I think I'm further away from making a decision that before this post! Good to have options anyway.
AnswerID: 603146

Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 09:25

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 09:25
When I bought my 100 TD a mate bought a new petrol one. He reckoned the difference in cost in his favour would more than cover my lesser fuel costs.

I would say he may be right as although I got a good price when I sold mine he reckons he is still in front in the money stakes.

He has taken it across the Simpson in stock form with only A/T tyres and after nearly 10 years has had little trouble except for the steering rack seals going and normal sevicing.
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FollowupID: 872819

Reply By: Sigmund - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 09:51

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 09:51
To cruise or not to cruise?

You see major compromises in the standard choices of Cruiser or Patrol. Well, look more closely into other options as Phil has suggested. I have an MU-X: cheap to buy, cheap to run, simple, strong, capable. Comes from a maker with a long pedigree even if you saw it under different badges.

AnswerID: 603148

Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 10:12

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 10:12
One thing you realy have to watch is ... ALL the passenger station waggon style 4wds have very poor payload compared to the 70 series commercial vehicles.

So poor in fact that after fitting bull bar, rear bar extra spare wheel, roof rack and a long range tank, they are looking for a GVM upgrade just to carry 4 adults and enough gear for a weekend

cheers
AnswerID: 603149

Reply By: Member - Bigfish - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 18:46

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 18:46
Having had toyotas for decades I finally had enough and purchased a 2014 Pajero. Absolutely brilliant car. Super reliable, will go anywhere a 4wd tojo will, more fuel efficient, more power than your old in line 6 motors and comfortable. There are other vehicles out there. Get on the net and sort out what ticks the boxes for you. Narrow it down to 2 vehicles, test drive and go away happy.

Good luck.
AnswerID: 603160

Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 20:24

Sunday, Aug 07, 2016 at 20:24
rb30e - The major problem today with the petrol VS diesel argument, is exactly what you've brought up - the cost and complexity of todays diesels.

20 years or more ago, diesels were beautifully simple. No electronics, just a simple mechanical pump and injectors, which with normal operation, gave superb service for many hundreds of thousands of kms.
Give them air and fuel and they went, and didn't stop.

Today, all diesels are as complex as the petrol engines and three times the parts costs when they incur damage. Nearly all are common rail injection, and run at huge pump and injection pressures, with a need for super-clean fuel, and not the slightest trace of water or dirt. Incur damage to a CR fuel injection system and you're up for mega-dollars.

Diesels have reached the peak of their design ability and there is little to be done to try and improve them from where they stand today.
They have huge problems meeting the ever-tightening emission regulations, and that is the reason why the latest models are now being fitted with diesel particulate filters. DPF's are just another cost burden and just another maintenance issue.

Meantime, petrol engines have improved and are still improving. They still have potential for further design improvements, and they can still meet emissions regulations without costly additions like DPF's.

In addition, petrol engines aren't bothered by a bit of fuel contamination - which is instant death to todays diesels.

Then there's the purchase cost factor. A diesels purchase cost is substantially more, both new and used. The slightly better fuel economy is often negated by the often-higher price of diesel in many areas.

If you aren't doing regular heavy towing, then a petrol engine today is a very viable option when choosing your power plant.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 603162

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Aug 08, 2016 at 22:35

Monday, Aug 08, 2016 at 22:35
I have to agree that the advantage of a diesel is not what it was .

Yeh have a fuel contamination problem you cant clearly blame on a fuel company and it can be very expensive indeed ..... a bloke down the road had a problem that fortunately the fuel company paid for ...... the bill was $8000.

The only reason even common rail diesel competes with petrol for power is because of the turbocharger.
Current pertol technology is very mature and very very reliable and that is without a turbocharger.

The other issue is current petrol motors are very efficient and far less thursty than those before ...... by the time you consider that diesel is now up to 30% dearer than petrol, the advantages of diesel are not what they where.

cheers
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FollowupID: 872867

Reply By: Echucan Bob - Tuesday, Aug 09, 2016 at 16:35

Tuesday, Aug 09, 2016 at 16:35
rb
I just took the 1999 Lexus LX470 (same as 100 series V8 petrol) on a fairly extensive desert tour of some 7000kms. I towed an off road trailer which carried camping gear, spare wheels, a few jerries of fuel, and 75L of water. The main fuel tank is 95L and the sub tank is 50L.
Echuca to Alice is bitumen. At 100 kph we made about 20L/100km. From AS we headed west and north, as far as Lake Mackay in WA, then down the SBJR (where it clicked over 400,000kms) to Docker River, then down to SG Corner via rough tracks before heading in to Yulara on the Kalka Track. From Yulara back into the APY Lands then bitumen from Marla back to Echuca.
The section from Alice to Marla included rough tracks and quite a bit of off track work (to reach 24S 129E).
The IFS handled the corrugations and dunes brilliantly. At no time did we test the vehicles articulation. Consumption remained around 20L even off track.
The only issue with petrol was ignition of spinifex around the catalytic converters on both sides. The fire rapidly spread to the spinfex trapped between the engine and the bash plate.
I've always been a staunch diesel advocate, but had no issues with using 91 octane and Opal on this trip.
Similarly, I've always preferred a solid front axle, but the 100 series IFS is so solid and comfortable I couldn't fault it. Maybe if you are into rock crawling it might matter. The Lexus has the additional feature of variable ride height, but I'm not sure if this contributes much to off road ability. Lowering it might make access easier if you are using a wheel chair. There is about a 5" difference between the low and high settings. It also has a variable suspension stiffness control which can be used to maximise comfort on the rougher tracks.
Speaking of pricing, the Lexus is often cheaper than a petrol 100 series with the same mileage. Here is a pretty smart example, with 128ks and five speed box.
Bob
AnswerID: 603233

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