Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:26
There are some issues that need to be addressed in new revisions to the ADRs and state legeslation.
.
In the past it was reasonable that
driving lights where limited in number and pretty much unlimited in brightness, pattern and wattage.
That was at a time when there where practical limits to how
bright and powerfull a spotlights could be on a motor vehicle.
The practical limit was 400 watts of halogen, which equates to about 80 to 100 watts of LED ... for most mortals 200 watts of halogen was enough
.
Now we have a situation where brightness is more or less unlimited due to LED and HID technology ...... this IS a problem.
.
In the past ( not currently) headlights and
driving lights of road vehicles where restricted by a specification that said they have to be above a certain height and below another height ( from memory between 600 and 900mm off the road).
That no longer applies to
driving lights.
.
High mounted
driving lights have been legal under ADRs for quite some time.
One of the problems with roof mounted
driving lights is, that they are above the driver's eye line and this can be seen by on-comming traffic before the driver can see the lights of the on-comming car.
.
There are some quite sensible rules that have been abandoned or become obsolete.
.
Now here are another couple of issues.
.
Low beam blindness
If your high beam is excessivly
bright, your eyes will adjust and all this brightness will be of little benifit.
Then when you dip to low beam your eyes will not adjust fast enough and you will be pretty much blind for several seconds.
.
Go onto pretty much any 4wd
forum and you will find people wanting headlight upgrades and brighter low beams ..... which they pretty much can't have legally.
.
Reflector blindness
Seems in recent years ( I don't remember it being such a problem in the 80's and 90s) the road authorities have been fitting and using more a brighter reflective signs and road markings.
Very
bright lighting hits these signs and markings making the driver pretty much blind or dramatically compromising the vision ..... the brighter the lights the worse the problem.
.
I have recently switched 2 of my vehicles over to LED
driving lights and done some experiments doing it.
Bear in mind I drive what would be considered country roads that require
driving lights 2 or 3 nights a week.
.
My tests indicate any more than about 70 to 80 watts of LED lighting is excessive and unhelpful.
.
Another problem is that with my fairly modest 80 watts of LED driving light, I no longer see the on-coming lights coming over crests or around corners anywhere near as
well as I did with 200 watts of halogen in 10 inch reflectors.
.
the desire for rediculously
bright lights is nothing new, what is new is the ease of achieving truly rediculous and unhelpful brightness.
.
I know a lot of people don't want to hear it ...... but no matter how much light you throw at it you will never achieve night time vision even close to daylight.
.
People need to train their vision, improve their looking and moderate their driving instead of looking to more and brighter light as the solution.
cheers
AnswerID:
604069
Follow Up By: Gronk - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 13:40
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 13:40
In the past ( not currently) headlights and
driving lights of road vehicles where restricted by a specification that said they have to be above a certain height and below another height ( from memory between 600 and 900mm off the road).
That no longer applies to
driving lights.
Depends on which state you're in ? Same as roof mounted lights.....allowed in some states and not others ! Light bars allowed above the bullbar in some states and not others !!
FollowupID:
873747
Follow Up By: Michaeljp - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 13:57
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 13:57
The problem here is not everyone's eyes see
well at night. Not enough light will fatigue you quicker than a lot of light. So some need more lights than others. I have 2x 35w HID spread beam spot ties on my 4WD. They are only just adequate for the purpose. Now that the ADR rules have changed last year I'm going to put a LED light bar on top of the bull bar to light up the down the road and angle the spotties to the sides of the road where most of the animals come from.
FollowupID:
873748
Follow Up By: TomH - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 16:00
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 16:00
Just be aware there is still an ADR rule regarding vision from the drivers
seat and basically it prevents any intrusion above the bonnet line. Saw a 100 ser Cruiser an hour ago with one on top of the factory bullbar and it was above the bonnet which in QLD I believe is still illegal.
From WA rules
Driver’s view is not to be obscured by the fitment of driving
lamps.
When sitting in the driver’s
seat with the
seat located at its rearmost position, it shall be
possible to see either the surface of the road, 11 metres in front of the driver’s eye or the front
edge of the original body when looking across the top of the driving lamps
From Queensland
The placement of driving lamps and associated
brackets must not increase the risk of injury to pedestrians. Driving lamps must not be fitted to
the top of a bull bar above the forward bonnet
line, or protruding forward of the bumper bar or bull bar in a way which would adversely change
the profile of the impact zone.
From NSW
the lamps must not obstruct the driver’s view of the road.
Also be aware that lights of 4300K to 5000K actually produce more light than ones of 6000k So bluer and whiter is not better.
FollowupID:
873749
Follow Up By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 18:46
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 18:46
Those who have the ability to defect vehicles with the incorrect lighting including cars that have retro fitted HID etc dont give a 'toss', and as a result it will just go on and on
FollowupID:
873753
Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 19:47
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 19:47
oetkb - The site you linked to is typical of the useless, incorrect trash that fills the internet.
About 18 of the 24 statements about "weird" Australian laws, are completely wrong.
A large proportion of those laws (where there actually was a law) have been repealed - and the rest are merely hearsay and "urban legend".
Here's the rebuttal just to No. 9 ... the law is the complete OPPOSITE of what is stated on that site - you MUST NOT state that "No questions will be asked" in advertising rewards for the return of stolen items.
Crimes Act 1958 - Section 89
As regards needing an electrician to change a light globe - wrong again.
"Life" jail sentences can, and often do, exceed 25 years.
Walking on the RHS of the road, is NOT illegal - it is MANDATORY, where there is no footpath. Walkers on roads must face the oncoming traffic.
I could go on - but this link to a news site puts you straight, on all the rubbishy website BS, and straight-out lies.
Urban legend? - or legislation?
Find a useful, accurate website to link to, next time, please!
Cheers, Ron.
FollowupID:
873755
Follow Up By: oetkb - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 20:48
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 20:48
Feel better now Ron? Feel like you've told the world you're right and someone else is wrong?
Now is probably the time to open up that old box that you stuffed way up the back of the shed in 2003, take it inside and open it, hopefully it hasn't died but in fact you're sense of humour is alive, now pull it out, dust it off and give it a good hold. perhaps even find a way of reattaching it.
All I said was that I would leave it here so others could have a look.
I never said it was or wasn't a law.
I lurk here quite often and have done so for many years but you may notice I very rarely post anything and that is because most responses end up in this legalistic rubbish that you felt the need to post.
Yes it's the law, I understand that, but we all understand the law isnt always too logical and its sometimes good to have a bit of a laugh about it all.
Anyway cheers to you to Ron and I hope you don't fall over in the back of the shed.
FollowupID:
873759
Follow Up By: Gronk - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 21:28
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 21:28
oetkb........ha ha, I like it !! lol
I'm waiting............for the reply !!
FollowupID:
873763
Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 21:33
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 21:33
Ron - you really do need to take a Bex and have a good lie down.
FollowupID:
873764
Follow Up By: Michaeljp - Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 21:48
Saturday, Sep 03, 2016 at 21:48
I found this bit of info, TomH, i cant see here, but i do remember some time ago the bit you mentioned about "not being above the bonet height" maybe something has changed, maybe not. This issue in NSW at least is so ambiguous that its getting ridiculous.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2009C00579
FollowupID:
873765
Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 07:36
Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 07:36
Highway cops have been booking people travelling on the Bruce Hwy (Qld) for leaving the tow tongue in the vehicle. They are also booking people for having light bars or fishing rod holders(empty) on the toip of bull bars. These extras alter the top characteristics of the bar...ie...Imagine a child getting hit in a suburban street and the angled fishing rod holder hits them. Lightbar may also do a lot more injury due to sharp edges and glass/perspex screen. The fishing rod holders are ok on the top IF they are at the rear of the bar and not at front( weird, but thats the law. Wont be too long and steel/alloy bars will be outlawed anyway. ALL
driving lights must be below the top rail of bullbar.
cheers
FollowupID:
873768
Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 18:02
Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 18:02
Now now now , tis damn fine that the Forums old bush lawyer [Ron N] spends all his time researching all the rules and laws [some outdated and repealed] so he can give us all good laugh and a perspective of how sad it must be to be a true know it all "grumpy old man " , not just one who bought the 'Teeshirt' ….
FollowupID:
873793
Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 21:05
Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 21:05
All I can say is, thank the Good Lord oetkb rarely posts anything - because the only time he does post a link to anything, it's puerile clickbait crap.
I wonder if he ever thought of posting something useful and very informative?
Nah, couldn't do that - too much work for those few remaining, working, brain cells.
Far better to just link to some crap website that just wastes everyones time, and then spend the rest of his time, being a troll.
FollowupID:
873802
Follow Up By: oetkb - Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 21:41
Sunday, Sep 04, 2016 at 21:41
Hahah Ron me old mate, It appears you just couldn't find that dusty old box up the back of the shed could you?. I must congratulate you though because I assume you've spent the last 30 hrs since I posted looking for it and not sitting behind your keyboard trying to come up with that pathetically lame attempt at a comeback. I also hope that it only took you 10, maybe 15 minutes to come up with that because I come up with much better than that with my "few remaining brain cells" in half that time.
Or perhaps you spent that 30 hrs looking for your "grumpy old man" tee shirt that someone stated they believe you owned, having a nice hot cup of Bex and a lay down?
Who knows what you do with your time and to be honest who really cares.
It seems you have your own reputation here Ron and It's certainly not one that I would like to be the owner of. Yes I know I'm now The "click bait guy" apparently in your little world and I'm happy with that, Id rather be known as a joker than a grumpy old irrelevant man who's best years are behind him and needs to prove to the internet world how mighty and powerful he is by correcting peoples jokes.
Now Ron I'm happy to continue this discussion with you but you just need to move a bit quicker with your reply's.
Or we can put this down now, walk away and let this thread die a natural death, choice is yours old mate.
FollowupID:
873805
Follow Up By: axle - Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 16:57
Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 16:57
Wow!!, I thought the good old days on this
forum where gone!
Looks like there back!
Hahahahahaha!.
FollowupID:
873982
Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 17:25
Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 17:25
Thought I was reading the Friday Funnies....
FollowupID:
873984