100 series vs 200 series Sahara - Why are some 200 series cheaper?

Submitted: Wednesday, Sep 07, 2016 at 20:51
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Ok, i've more or less decided to purchase a second hand Toyota Landcruiser Sahara.
My budget is around the $40-$50 mark

I know the heritage and following for the wonderful 100 Series 4.2TD engine
They sure hold their price
To the point, they can be more expensive than the newer 200 Series V8 Sahara of the same kilometres.

Just interested to hear peoples views on that.
If you were in the market for a second hand Sahara, would you get a 200 Series or the 100 Series for around the same money?

I know some friends that really don't like the V8 Diesel for their own reasons.
But it is pretty hard to find someone that doesn't like the older 4.2TD.

Thank you for your input.
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Reply By: 17 South - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 00:09

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 00:09
Hey Salty Dog - the 4.2 is a legendary motor in both versions...
Depends on what sort of travelling you intend to do but if you're exploring Australia at large especially the outback I'd definitely take the 100 over the 200. I think the 105 (you know the refined 100 would be definitively worth close inspection)

While the new 200 is an amazing vehicle, the V8 has great grunt and the twin turbo rocks - way too many electronics and things to go bump particularly out back - I'm a fan of the less complicated the better for outback touring. I want to drive and control the car, not have it drive for me and sadly newer model seems to be heading in that direction....

I did a massive job for Toyota back in 2014 where we trekked 18,000 kms round the outback with their engineering heads of department (I was a guide) but the scuttlebutt out of those engees is the Turbo 6 is back on the drawing board and will be available as alternative to the V8 with the release of 300 and 70 series of cruisers 2018/19... also 6 speed manual (70) and a 9 speed auto (300)


cheers
Wildling from the North

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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 07:23

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 07:23
The early 200 diesels had a crap motor that drank oil, those trucks and quite cheap.
Plus the V8 is being discontinued in a couple of years as it will not meet the next round of Euro emissions standards.
The 100 holds a bigger payload than the 200.
Sort of depends on what you want to do with it, same question with do you really need a sahara? its air ride suspension does not lend itself to lifting (100 or 200)...
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Follow Up By: Salty Dog - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 10:02

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 10:02
Yes, good point MalcomB

I forgot they used oil, and spat out injectors

I only thought i'd get a Sahara, as if i'm spending that much money, i may as well treat myself for the rest of the time i drive it, which would be 90%.

But you raise some points i was not aware of
Girlfriend had AirBags in an old Range Rover, that was enough thanks :(

My good friend has the 100 Series GXL 4.2TD, its seen him right for 370,000k's
And it tows 6 tonne of wood on a weekly basis (in one go)

Great to know the payload is bigger too, that is my biggest issue with a Landcruiser, internal space.

Well, maybe is the 300 Series is coming out, the old 100 may take a small price drop. Being a Landcruiser, i'm sure it wont though.
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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 10:52

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 10:52
I have a 100 TD and no way I'd swap it for a 200.
Amongst other horrors, they eat alternators which is located underneath teh motor where all water and mud can get at it. This take hours and hours to replace and the engine will not start without the alternator providing a charge. Deadly in the outback

You can easily get 500 thou Km from the 1KZ-FTE motor, just look after it and change the oil and filters every 5000km.
Should you ever decide to do any serious offroading requiring a lift, the Saharas require extensive suspension mods just to get rid of the air ride junk and fit extended shocks etc. Costly job...

have you looked up LCOOL.org?
Aus landcruiser forums with heaps of knowledge on all your questions.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 11:42

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 11:42
That is deadly and real Malcom.

Just recently our Toyota RAV4 alternator bearing failed and while it kept rotating ok there was no output.
Fortunately I could still run the car , and just top up the battery as reqd !

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:11

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:11
It would be very difficult to modify the air ride suspension on a 200 Sahara because there is none. The suspension is the same as other 200's. Standard boing boing metal springs.

I have a Sahara 200 and should know a little, since I upgraded the suspension on mine.

I suggest the OP goes to LCOOL and speaks to people who know the products.

Taking bad advice from people who are guessing the facts may be a costly choice
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 16:39

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 16:39
A lot of bagging the early 200 engine also going on here, (Malcolm). The engine is good and still going strong. Yes there was an oil consumption matter but that was an easy fix.
I may know having the first batch off the boat, 3 CY, 2 Simpson, 1 Kimberley and numerous blacktop trips.
And that is sticking to 10000km intervals without topping up and whilst towing. And still original alternator, can you believe. But what would I know ;-) I just own and drive one with 200000 km on it
Good point on the payload though
CJ
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 20:12

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 20:12
Malcolm M
facts are the 100 air suspension isnt hard to lift at all.
all you do is replace it with aftermarket suspension such as like going to Autocraft in geelong and ask for DAZ than being a arm chair critic who knows it all

its actually a very common modification.
because the AHC suspension doesnt handle a heavy caravan as it keeps sagging the rear end.

simple reason for high prices of 100series
is the motor and gearbox is a bullet proof combination
built to haul your 3500kg van
its well proven and acknowledged as one of the best best turbo diesels ever brought into australia...
mind you if pissan on a nissan got off their bum...
and put the 550v6 renault motor in the patrol
then you would have a even match vehicles
but the 550v6 isnt that well proven like the 1HD FTE motor which has been on aussie roads for over 16years
and a loyal following in the grey nomads choice of tow vehicle.
ha ha
robin miller will have to confess to that !! :-P
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Reply By: Life Member TourBoy, Bundaberg - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 09:51

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 09:51
Interestingly, when I was at my local yota stealer the other day, I overheard the salesman telling a customer to hold off buying a new 200 as the 300 series is nearly here, the impression I got was late this year.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/2016-02-09-22-09-00-jpg.1206298/
Cheers,
Dave
2010 Isuzu FTS800 Expedition camper
2015 Fortuner
Had 72 cruisers in my time

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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 10:45

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 10:45
Jeez thats one ugly car.
Looks like I keep the 100 for another 10 years...
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 12:08

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 12:08
That photo is a photoshop artist's impression.

Yeah my dealer said keep your money and hold me to hold off till the Land Crusier 5000 is released next week.

I owned a 2008 200. Loved it. I just ordered a new one.

Go to Lcool where 1000's of owners can comment. especially those who who have owned 100's and 200's. Not a lot of those people would say their 100 was better.

Early 200's, like mine had oil problems, It was fixed in 2009. Check that it had the scavange pump fix.
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Follow Up By: Salty Dog - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 12:43

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 12:43
Yes, i'm pretty used to people finding faults in all vehicles, new or old.
There is always someone that had a problem and world heard about it.

In saying that, i do like to hear these stories, its always good to keep in the back of your mind should something happen one day.

But if you believed all owners, you'd buy a Land Rover D3/D4 and think you've purchased the 4WD of the Year!

I'm sure they received that award from the same people that gave McDonalds the Tick of the Heart foundation.

As for Alternators in bad places, tell me about it, i'm elbows deep in a Toyota Hiace trying to remove one right now!
Looks like the Power Steering pump has to be removed just to reach it.
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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:05

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:05
There's another one for the 200.
To change the steering rack you have to jack the engine up out of the engine bay.
Simply not built for bush mechanics to service.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:39

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:39
Malcom

Your information is not correct again. That is NOT the case.

Geez you are a man with a mission.

You should fact check though.

It's ok, we do understand you like your 100. Nice vehicle.

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FollowupID: 873950

Follow Up By: Malcom M - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 14:11

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 14:11
Actually it is. My 100 spent some time alongside a 200 in Weipa both having racks replaced.
The 100 is also a bitch at about 4-5 hours but the mechanic was way more pissed about having to lift the 200s engine to swap its out.
Being Weipa, they see a lot of 200s...

Anyway, not intending to upset you but the OP asked for info on why 200's don't hold their value to well compared to 100's . These are some of the reasons that put me off buying a 200.
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FollowupID: 873951

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 14:42

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 14:42
I am sorry Malcolm, but that is simply not correct. Maybe some mechanic in Weipa does that, but that doesn't make it the right way Originally Toyota recommended that method, but the practice and procedure changed very quickly in about 2009. Engines are not required to be removed for that repair in any model 200. That is a simple fact.

Anyway guessing at issues isn't helping the OP. If he joins LCOOL he can read all about this and other issues from owners with real experiences.

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Follow Up By: Salty Dog - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 20:28

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 20:28
I appreciate the input fellas
A mate just rolled into my drive way with a brand spanking new 76 Series, 4 door, 5 Speed manual.

I had a good look around, i see what people say about the engine, or more, where the accessories are placed.
Hope the Alternator likes a swim.

Good looking Vehicle though.
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:20

Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 09:20
"To change the steering rack you have to jack the engine up out of the engine bay.
Simply not built for bush mechanics to service."

And just how often do you find yourself needing to replace a steering rack by the side of the road, or at all?!

That comment reminds me of my uncle who took great delight in telling how good his Model-T Ford was because he could change a crankshaft by the side of the road... "you couldn't do that on a modern car, could you?!" he triumphantly exclaimed. My brother's response was priceless "you wouldn't *have* to do that on a modern car".
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 11:50

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 11:50
Difficult question - there are real issues there but I would take the 200 and try to come up with work arounds - like for the no alternator output issue.
To me - water in fuel would be a more likely issue and either one could use better protection.

We should not over state the 200 series problems though , its a great and basically reliable car.

I have 2 friends who bought 100 series a year ago , one was in mint condition and $60k.

Both are happy , but fitted chips/exhausts etc

I suppose I shouldn't have passed them uphill in my Patrol some time ago. !
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Salty Dog - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:27

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 13:27
Yes, Water in Fuel just cost my son-in-law a 3 week holiday
A tow to Alice Springs from his location
And a $5500 repair bill on his Nissan D40
Then he had to go get his camper, as that wasn't cover to be towed
Accom for 2 weeks while parts arrived and were fitted.

At least it wasn't a 200 Series TTD V8, he was told that would have cost $20k for the same repair job
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Reply By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 16:40

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 16:40
Here is something you should be aware of with the 200 engine, how difficult it is to access the fuel cooler, erg valve and starter motor. You may never have to but fore warned is fore armed.

It could be done on the roadside but it would take all day and you would have to have all the gaskets and parts.

Here ia a video of the starter.

[vimeo]Starter motor[/vimeo]
AnswerID: 604219

Follow Up By: Salty Dog - Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 18:12

Thursday, Sep 08, 2016 at 18:12
Holy Smoke!!!!!
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Reply By: vk1dx - Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 07:56

Friday, Sep 09, 2016 at 07:56
4.2TD 100 series with the 1HD-FTE motor, without doubt.

Phil
AnswerID: 604231

Reply By: fraserbluff - Monday, Sep 26, 2016 at 09:04

Monday, Sep 26, 2016 at 09:04
I have a 2006 79 series ute, and a 2005 Sahara both done 180K, both spend all their free time off the bitumen.
I also do all my own maintenance.
I replaced the rear coils on the Sahara with airbag man airbags 9 years ago, and the suspension works a treat. It will raise the 50mm in the unlikely event I need to. The ground clearance remains constant loaded or unloaded. And by adjusting the air pressure I can load it as I please, and still maintain the same clearance under the body.
Last time out in the Pilbara (5 weeks ago) was asked to try breath life into to V8 Troop carrier that failed to have a life of its own. Wouldn't start. I did all you can do, which is check the fuses and made sure it had fuel.

Had to drag it 90kms through the desert over across a wide sandy dry river bed, around and over sand dunes and salt pans and sand then stick it on a truck. With the V8s, one just opens the bonnets and then closes it again because there is nothing a mere mortal can do it they stop.

In a few years time the indigenous people of the land are going to be driven completely mad because there will be no more SH Toyotas with the 4.2 diesels and they will be left with the V8 and all that trickery. With the 4.2's you have a chance. With the V8s you have none!

Then there is the issue of the starter in the valley. If you have to pull the starter out of a V8, I think I would buy a new house on a hill for a roll start instead.

Cheers
Donald
PS Just for fun, and NOT suggesting the Toyos axles are a problem, but,
I came across this V8 that broke his rear axle housing on the inside of the RHS spring bolts, carrying 400l of fuel and 100 litres of water. Had to wait three days for a truck.

AnswerID: 604657

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