So why didn't the Poms follow the Japs in Engineering Techniques?

what the poms did wrong was kidding them selves in to thinkin they could make it they should have sent the plans to the japs an got them to build it ,
emagine the RangeRover if the japs had built it
cheers mechpete

Who do you think the Japanese learnt from?

The other joke is that Landrover Engineers heard that Toyota tested the seals on their vehicles by putting a cat in the car for the weekend.
If the cat suffocated due to no air getting past the seals, then it passed.

So, they got a cat and put it in the new Defender. Come Monday morning, the cat was gone.

But, yes. I think the Brittish held onto the the idea that highly skilled artisans manufacturing bespoke machinery would carry them through, which in the end didn't even work for Rolls Royce.

The unions probably didn't help things. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for organised labour to protect workers rights, but when sticking doggedly to your specific trade, intransigence and demarcation disputes results in you pricing yourself out of the market and out of a job, then maybe you need to rethink your strategy.

The Japanese embraced technology and efficiency which allowed them to produce a quality reliable product for much less than the Europeans could and by the time a lot of them realized they were behind they had no hope of catching up again.

There is this old myth that old Landrovers leaked oil. Totally worng. They didn't - they were merely marking their territory....

I recall reading many years ago that when the Americans entered WW2, an agreement was made that the yanks would start building Merlin engines for Mustangs, and other aircraft, in large numbers, much to the horror of Rolls Royce.
However, RR offered to send over some engineers to get the ball rolling, only to be told they wouldn't be needed as Packard were re-drawing the engine, virtually redesigning it, and this would take a few months.
When asked why such a fine engine needed a re-design, RR were told the design was impossible to build as a mass produced item as its tolerances were too close.
It seemed every British built Merlin was hand build by literally going through a large selection of parts, and perfectly hand matching them, to end up with an engine with fine tolerances and excellent performance.
When RR found out the new design tolerances were plus or minus a "few thou" they were aghast, but the yanks literally shoved thousands of engines together on assembly lines without the need for "RR" standard engineers.
They worked OK and sure got a lot of aircraft into the war effort.

I thought it was interesting.

Bob

It was interesting bobr

In the 60s and 70s my father gave the English cars chance after chance.

Austin Farina, Cambridge then his teenage son recommended the Marina. My fault!!

Finally he bought a new Toyota Corolla in 1978. That car did what it was designed to do, run and keep running.

In 1985 he sold it as it had a noisy clutch bearing....he always regretted that decision.

Apart from a Morris Nomad I went Mazda's 808 and Datsun 2000 sports. Great engines.

But I made one big bad decision...I got involved with Lotus cars. Now there's an example of high maintenance, pull your hair out type engine
Oh, and my brother had a mini. But after spending a full day replacing the lower radiator hisr I passed on them...

The Brits certainly innovated in automotive design (like air suspension, E-W engine layout, frame oil tanks on motorbikes) but the Japs committed to continuous quality improvement and their build quality and reliability outstripped the Brits. Plus management nous in the Western car industry wasn't razor sharp - witness sticking with big displacement motors in big sedans for years after petrol prices started their upward climb and after the structure of the family changed forever.

Have covered a lot of Australia this year and am amazed at the number of late model Discoverys pulling caravans and campers. Expected to see the odd one broken down, but instead saw a lot of happy owners. Maybe the tide is turning?

It is interesting to note that some responses us the term "Japs" and other "Japanese". It is not a matter of political correcteness but use of "Japanese" is a reflection of the fact that we live in a shrunken world. Our neighbours, friends and work colleagues are bound to include people born elsewhere. With old standard terms like "Japs", "Poms" and "Wogs" it is easy to fall back on, "No offence intended."

As an Australian I hate to be referred to as English let alone "Pom."

And now the Koreans are showing the Japanese how to do it right. Time moves on!

Probably the original reason the British automotive and engineering industry did not go down the same road as the Japanese is ....... the British had existing factories, existing methods and skill base.
The Japanese where pretty much starting from scratch.

The British manufacturers where struggling to get back on their feet and back to their primary business after being at war, for 10 years and under the building treat of war for 10 years prior to that.
Much of their machinery was old and materials where still in short supply.

The Japs on the other hand where starting again and doing something new.

The Brit's had spent 20 years building planes with facilities intended to build cars, the Jap's where now building cars in facilities intended to build planes.

The other very big factor is that the British Automotive industry ( and industry in general) was primarily focused on the domestic market with some export to empire countries.

The Japanese Automotive industry was totally focused on building for export.

The Jap's knew that if their vehicles ( and other products) where to sell against long established local brands amid an atmosphere of winning national pride and post war hatred ..... their product had to be better and cheaper than it's competitors.

By the late 60's and early 70's the Japanese where building cars that WHERE better made and better optioned than the British and American designed vehicles they where competing with.
In the 60's, many British vehicles inspite of comming from a cold climate, the heater was an option, well into the 70's most British and American designed vehicles a radio was an option. The Japanese they where integrated, came standard and they worked well.

The British and American automotive industries have never caught up and that is why both are near total collapse.

Some of the British and American designed vehicles are still new metalwork on base design that has been around for 40 or 50 years ... in that time the Jap's and their other Asian Cousins have braught out one after the other, from the ground up new designs.

The Brit's and the Yanks, have not followed the Jap's, because they simply don't know how and they won't admit that.

The Japanese culture, understands the value of shame and defeat ..... they know it is a time to take a long hard look at themselves and find a different and /or a better way.

The Yanks won't admit defeat and the Brits will just insist on doing what they always have.

cheers

The car industry in the U.K. Is booming with almost 2 million units rolling off the lines valued at almost 60 billion pounds
Almost more than ever during the heyday of the 60s and 70s

Honda Nissan Toyota jag Land Rover mini and BMW all have very modern plant there now

Most f1 and wrc cars are built there as well

Not quite the picture everyone thinks

Today vehicle manufacturing is a Global market ,there is simply no such thing as a purely 'British' or Japanese or American -Chinese -Korean or South American
….. Mazda Japanese ? Some engines are from Spain ! Even the 'All American' Harley Davidson is a bits this and bits a that sourced from all over the world [German electrics , Australian wheels etc.]

In a word? Arrogance.

There are two words which make the automotive world eternally grateful the Japanese didn't follow the British model ....... and where the Poms should have followed the Japs ....

"Lucas Electrics" .....