Warranty

Submitted: Thursday, Oct 20, 2016 at 21:10
ThreadID: 133634 Views:3988 Replies:10 FollowUps:11
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Hi has any body had or heard of warranty issues with a new vehicle if fitting aftermarket compliant bulbar and LED Light bar, it is a Colorado 2016 4x4
Cheers
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Reply By: TomH - Thursday, Oct 20, 2016 at 23:36

Thursday, Oct 20, 2016 at 23:36
Perhaps some insight into why you are asking the question would get a sensible answer.
Do you have a problem or just wondering before you fit them
AnswerID: 605246

Reply By: Member - PhilD_NT - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 00:47

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 00:47
I had an engine related over heating and going in to Limp Home Mode fault and took it to the Dealer. Workshop Foreman's first comment on seeing the vehicle was to state that the bulbar might restrict airflow and cause that issue. When I said that I bought the vehicle there and they organised my choice of bull bar he backed off. That didn't stop them though progressively disabling a number of non-factory items, presumably to eliminate their own liability. The Water-watch system was tested but left connected as it was also found to not bring it on. Six weeks of a multitude of sensor's, computer (twice), new injectors and test drives they identified an over heating high pressure fuel pump. No Fault Codes logged. I was left with a clear impression that they would go to some length to deny liability if possible. The Dealer even tried to bill me for refilling the fuel tank (to continue testing) that they emptied during test drives, until the Factory contact I had over-rode them. Whether it was Company Policy or not I don't know, but in multiple discussions about things it was indicated to me that if they had found a vehicle with something like a Scangauge plugged in then they would have taken quite a dim view of it (I think that that is a suitably polite way of putting it). At least I got a new set of injectors at 30,000km that they left in.

Phil
AnswerID: 605248

Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 11:23

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 11:23
What vehicle, and which dealer? Fiat/Chrysler are known for exceptionally bad customer service whereas Suburu and Isuzu are know for their very good customer service.
What other people think of me is none of my business.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 16:11

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 16:11
I had a 2007 diesel Prado for 7 years. My dealer had absolutely no problem with after market accessories - bar, winch, spotties, suspension.

I did the same treatment to my BT50 and it's a completely different story from my Mazda dealer. The BT50 and its cousin, the Ranger are renowned for letting the battery go flat. It's happened to me a few times and I mentioned it at a service. They said they would test the electrical system, but only after I had removed my electrical mods.

I asked if they meant disconnect. They said no, physically remove. That meant removing the isolator and all the cabling to and including the second battery in the back AND the tradie canopy as its electrics (central locking plus lights) are built in and integrated with the vehicle's electrics. I could sort of see where they are coming from, but it's a bit OTT in my opinion.

I declined the test, I don't need the angst and it's cheaper and easier to replace the battery when it carks it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 18:44

Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 18:44
Dealer is a con artist. They targetted the aftermarket stuff hoping to make more money out of you PLUS many dealer trained mechanics have trouble with later modern cars because of the complexity of the electronics fitted.
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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 20:58

Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 20:58
The Mazda BT-50 and when re-badged Ford Ranger are fitted with a 'smart alternator', as are many other makes these days, and when a second battery is fitted, if the correct dual battery system electronic controller is not fitted, one battery will become flat. Redarc make a dual battery system to cater for this situation. See:
https://www.redarc.com.au/news/are-ecu-controlled-and-temperature-compensating-alternators-causing-yo The ECU controlled temperature compensating alternators are primarily fitted to reduce fuel consumption and whilst the battery voltage may be below the nominal 14V, if the ECU deems that the main battery does not need further charge at the particular point in time, either battery will not be charged
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Reply By: Member - Jim B8 - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:47

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:47
Cant help you, but an interesting subject, I have had 2 recent dealer confrontations.
If the dealers spent as much time looking for the problem source as they did looking for warranty exemptions,, they would keep more people aligned at vehicle change over time.
I had a shudder just after take off, reported it at every single service, and was told it was caused by my fitting of "chunkier" tyres, and overloading. The load was a totally empty alloy enclosure. And the shudder is still there.
Its just too convenient that manufacturers leave customer contact to the dealers, and only step in when it cant win/dont want the bad publicity. And the workshop supervisor is fully trained in rejecting warranty claims based on "modifications". Bring on the requirement for manufacturers to have to spec the range of acceptable mods allowed. Then users can make their changes based on facts, not after market sales teams claims. It would sort out bull**it towing claims as well. And the manufacturers would soon find out that they are selling to a market that wants to modify/personalise their rigs.
Why do you think that warranties are increasing - some are 7 years now? Because there is no way you can use them.
Worst are cab/chassis, awd and wagons are normally not as "fitted out"
Change the law and eliminate the vermin, I say
AnswerID: 605251

Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 08:37

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 08:37
As mentioned in an earlier response, it would be good to understand the context of your question.

Perhaps some dealerships and vehicle manufacturers’ have a first line response to throw out the line the vehicle has been modified and therefore absolves them from meeting claims – but I don’t believe it is so black and white.

The problem is when a claim is rejected, you may need to plead your case and this might involve expense beyond the cost of repair.

It is hard to imagine that an after-market bulbar designed for fitment on the vehicle would cause a warranty to be voided. Bearing in mind, after-market supplier’s producing accessories and modifications for specific vehicles need to be cognisant that they themselves run the risk of a claim if their product causes a problem with the vehicle that is not met under the vehicle manufacturers’ warranty.

But on warranties, I will put this out there for example and discussion (given it is consistent with the OPs question)…

A common warranty discussion revolves around a performance chip over-ride of the vehicles chip and this has always been seen or suggested as voiding warranty on any engine problems outright.

But consider this.

Most (reputable) chips don’t push the engine’s performance outside of safe operating parameters determined by the manufacturer. Nor does the chip modify the engine in any way, only the software that governs engine inputs, which, as indicated should be within parameters already determined by the manufacturer.

Now it might be costly to argue the toss on something like this if there is an engine problem, but again, I don’t believe it is as clear and cut as it might first seem. And there is always potential recourse to the chip manufacturer, so it is in their interest to make sure it is compatible with the vehicle’s engine and does not cause problems.

My point…

Nothing is black and white when it comes to warranties and one should always consider the individual situation despite what the dealership or manufacturer say. But also be aware the cost of pursuing a warranty claim might outstrip any financial benefit of doing so…

When I bought my vehicle I had in mind modifications that may give rise to voiding manufacturer’s warranties and I accepted this as part of the purchase I was making – so I made sure I selected a vehicle that has a reputation for reliability and therefore less likely to present warranty issues on major components...

Good weekend to all, Baz – The Landy
AnswerID: 605254

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 09:39

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 09:39
I think it would be quite understandable if a manufacturer rejected warranty claims on front suspension components & chassis damage after the fitment of a bull bar & winch!

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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:12

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:12
Shaker…

I’ll assume you mean the manufacturer’s bulbar versus an after-market version, as it would be unlikely to reject a claim if it was one of its own catalogue products…

As indicated, I don’t think it is “black and white” and you would need to know the basis on why they might reject the claim.

For example, Toyota has available a bulbar and winch as accessories for my vehicle. So clearly, the vehicle is designed for these to be fitted and either the suspension is fit for purpose for these accessories or it isn’t. And I am talking about like for like, or a similar bar, that has similar characteristics as the manufacturer’s branded version.

If it isn’t suitable for an after-market bulbar, but suitable for its own branded version, what makes its branded version different that it is suitable and the after-market version not?

Noting, Toyota does not manufacture either the bulbar it supplies or the winch. In all reality, these will be coming from a manufacturer who also supplies the after-market industry (read basically the same unit!).

Don’t be hoodwinked!

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:42

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:42
I agree with the analogy regarding a 'roo bar and winch. Even if the combo is not the one supplied by the vehicle manufacturer, but substantially the same weight I would imagine a dealer would have a pretty difficult time rejecting a front suspension failure. The only other factor to consider is whether the manufacturer stipulates that a modification to the suspension must be done in conjunction with the fitment of bar and winch. This regardless of who's bar and winch are fitted.

To me, a different kettle of fish altogether when you start fitting performance enhancing chips that modify in any way the original operating parameters of the engine and or transmission. IMHO, fit one during the warranty period, have an engine failure, and you are going to be skating on thin ice going back to the dealer and trying to claim warranty. Maybe better to prepare yourself to have a word to the chip supplier/installer, and hope you kept all his/her paperwork relevant to the fitting and tuning.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 14:18

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 14:18
The better chip installers generally warrant their products and damage to a vehicle where their chip is fitted but how difficult it is to claim on this I guess is an unknown.

I can see the discussion going along the lines that the Chip seller says there is an issue with the engine so claim on the manufacturer but the manufacturer says the issue was caused by the Chip.

A court can sort it out but at what stress levels and at what cost.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 18:48

Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 18:48
Latest advertising from ARB is that if you buy a new car from a dealer , the dealer will arrange with ARB to have all your accessories fittef!! Have seen the advert on tv a few times now.
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Reply By: Member - Charlie M (SA) - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:03

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:03
Hi
Had a customer of ours with a Ranger. He had a heat related problem that had many thing done to it over time.
In the end he shifted the number plate as it was slightly blocking the intercooler.
Fixed his problem.
No I dont sell or do motor vehicle sales or service.
Cheers
Charlie
AnswerID: 605258

Reply By: The Bantam - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 19:06

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 19:06
what we have here are two inter related issues with two complete sets of BULL$#!^ ..sorry misinformation.

Firstly we have the tendancy for pretty much all dealers and all manufacturers, to some degree or another automatically try to blame or dismiss valid warranty claims.

They (dealers) all want to "service" you car at an inflated price, but they most certainly are not the be all and end all experts on the brands and models they service.

Remember most of the time of the service department at any dealer is occupied with very profitable "scheduled services". In a day and age of very reliable vehicles, and vehicles that are getting ever more complex. They repair very little and diagnose even less.

They certainly do not make good money out of warranty repairs, particularly convoluted hard to find problems.

It may well be that certain mechanics outside of the dealerships know more about the vehicles than the dealers do ....... AND it is far from uncommon for dealers to sub-contract the hard stuff.

I have several friends and aquaintences who are regularly approached to solve problems that dealers cant or won't.

So we have dealer mechanics that are not expert at diagnostics or the systems, who have a pre-inclination to blaming anything else, handling the issue.

There are no doubt many genuine warranty faults that remain unrectifed, because the dealer has sucessfully palmed the customer off.



Second ... the whole aftermarket industry is very variable ....... some of the items are well designed and proven ....... others have very little real engineering input and even less testing.

I guarantee you in the lower end of the market, bullbars will be designed by the bloke who can drive the profile cutter and welder, with a rubber stamp from an engineer if you are lucky.

Some of the lesser designs most certainly do have airflow issues, and this should have been obvious for anybody with eyes to see.

As for light bars and driving lights obstructing airflow and causing overheating ...... I've run big lights on my vehicles most of my driving life and never experienced overheating problems ........ that does not mean it's not is not an issue.

IF the airflow is not otherwise compromised, I doubt very much that large driving lights would cause a problem.

BUT if the air flow is obstructed or otherwise compromised, adding another obstruction in the form of big driving lights, may push it over the edge.

One thing that must be understood, is, on most modern vehicles, the "grill" is not the only or even the major path of airflow.

In older vehicle designs, the radiator stood mostly above the chassis and above the bumper and the grill was the place where nearly all the air flowed.

On modern vehicle a large portion of the radiator sits below the chassis and the bumper line. In many modern vehicles more air flows below the bumper or even thru the bumper than thru the grill.

This is where some bullbars have a problem ........ I have seen bars that have full width solid faces on the bumper section of the bar ... AND ... below that have full width splash plates that extend down quite some way ..... pretty much blocking the bottom half of the radiator.

It is reasonable that there may be issues with some bullbars, but the obstruction should pretty much be obvious when compared to an unmolested example ....... and one would expect other vehicles with that combination to be having problems.

Above all this requires sound diagnosis, not grasping at straws, blame games.

AND most definitely if the vehicle was operating properly with these accessories fitted for quite some time in the past, it is not them to blame now.

cheers
AnswerID: 605267

Follow Up By: mike39 - Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 07:41

Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 07:41
With regard to "dealers" mechanics and diagnostics on should not overlook the fact that most manufacturers have many models/types and that many dealers also represent/sell more than one make of vehicle.
It can be a little much to expect a particular dealers contingent of (say) 3-4 mechanics to be diagnostically on top of the full range of models serviced/problem diagnosed at that workshop.
Whereas "old mate" around the corner may have years of experience with that one particular make/model and can pinpoint a particular problem immediately.
mike
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 13:43

Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 13:43
Yes indeed.
One thing that has changed is that in the past the American company designed vehicles did not change much year after year ....... they pretty much trotted out the same car with different sheet metal and upholstery year after year.
So there is not a great deal of substantial mechanical difference between an XP falcon and a Teritory... or between the early 6 cylinder holdens and the last of the comadores.

Currently the Japanese and european designed vehicles may have many models bassed on the one chassis and driveline with different sheet metal and upholstery ..... but each new generation is a compeletely different car.
So while the VW beetle, and the mini cooper are built on the same Audi mechanicals, and many of the same vintage Toyota vehicles are built on the same mechanical base ......... those models are entirely different than models that come before and after.

There are many backyard enthusiasts and small time mechanics that have very detailed knoweledge of particular models or ranges.

There are also independent specialists who may have very detailed knoweledge of particular systems or components ....... and yes most mechanics including dealers subcontract to those specilaists.

there are even some weird specilists like "dash strippers" who the major trades have come in to dismantle and reassemble things so the majore work can be done.

YES the workforce is also very mobile these days ....... It would be unusual to find a mechanic who has spent 20 or 30 years working on the same brand in a dealership these days ....... hell some of the dealers don't even stay with the same brand that long.

cheers
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Reply By: Member - Bigred13 - Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 20:14

Friday, Oct 21, 2016 at 20:14
Thanks to all the wonderful replies,there is a lot of "a friend of a friend's brother in laws " said they knew of someone who had a problem with after market goods. re warranty ,so I thought I would ask if anyone has had real problems .Thanks to all
AnswerID: 605269

Reply By: Lindsaydi - Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 16:18

Saturday, Oct 22, 2016 at 16:18
Mate the biggest problem is crap hearsay however I have a 200 VX bought with 3250 klms on clock 6 months old has a Toyota branded bar front sagging so I fitted ARB recommended shocks and springs. Went to Toyota for service where I was told that they may not honour warranty because of upgrade, I said good I need the money, they backed of because they do not have a Toyota branded soultonfor the problem. There are also huge problems in caravan industry. It would appear that Lemon Laws need to be put into place.
AnswerID: 605293

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Oct 23, 2016 at 15:18

Sunday, Oct 23, 2016 at 15:18
Warranty on after market [even oem ] fitted is a minefield , recently my Toyota dealer [ also a very good family friend] and I had the discussion , Was looking at the New model hilux / fortuna , you can get factory / dealer fitted all the good bits - B/bar in steel or alloy , both with or without a [warn] winch , side rails and steps , a factory 2nd battery under bonnet , d/lights and light bars , now thats just for the front , then they have factory approved gear for the rear , tow bar - canopy for the lux - drawer systems for both etc etc …. Now with all this extra weight I asked 'Suspension Upgrade needed for warranty ? '……….Unequivocal answer was "NO"
His statement was that all the 'extras' fitted before the dealership registers the new vehicle are covered by the Tojo new vehicle warranty BUT if I then went and fitted upgraded suspension it would open a door for Tojo to try to knock back claims .
AnswerID: 605337

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Oct 24, 2016 at 15:07

Monday, Oct 24, 2016 at 15:07
My little warranty story:
In Sept '15, we purchased a Landcruiser GXL single cab ute from a large dealer in north Qld. Part of the deal was an Ironman GVM upgrade, which was fitted by a nearby outlet owned by this group.

By the time the 10K service was due, I'd travelled across the Simpson with Les-PK Ranger, and back home up the Strzelecki and Diamantina River Road. At the service, it was noted the greaseable shackle bushes were worn and there was damage to the outer parts of the rear diff locker.(not sure how this damage was caused in the sandy Simpson, but may have been at roadworks along the
Strzelecki.

A date was set for these repairs, and come that time, I had to argue for them to organise the shackle repairs, from their "sister" business, which they eventually did. As for the diff repairs, their quote was a good bit overinflated, labour required was much less than quoted and I come home with a few bob in my pocket.

Bob
Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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