Wrecked vehicles/trailers left in the outback

Hoyks the problem is in the first two sentences, "more to recover the item than it is worth", "no financial incentive to recover it", & "no penalty for leaving it there".
I guess that if there was a penalty for leaving it there our premiums would skyrocket or worse, nil insurance cover for those tracks/areas.Still another piece of "litter" in the environment.
On a side note pity about the XR400, nice bike.

Cheers
Batsy

I'll play Devil's Advocate. Some wrecks left there long enough become part of the scenery. Beadell's truck, classic old 40's, 50's and 60's cars. I know, it's a minority.

They function as stark reminders of what can go horribly wrong in the Outback.

You only have to travel the road between Wiluna and Meekatharra (WA) to witness that!
And even though most of those wrecked/abandoned vehicles are not that old, am pretty certain all would be uninsured, many not even registered. .
mike

To a certain extent - this rolled (yes rolled:) Nissan Patrol I drove past last week on the Trans Access Road is just plain rubbish :)



Cheers
Greg

Maybe different now Shaker but when we went through in 2011 there were in excess of a hundred drums at the drop site. Hopefully this has changed ?

Cheers
Batsy

Why the government (read taxpayer), why not the person who left it there...?

Just thinking it out aloud.

Cheers, Baz

Why not? Apparently we expect the government to do everything else for us!

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Bob, from what I have been told by 'someone-who-lives-out-there' the indigenous ethos places little intrinsic value in material possessions, so when they cease to be of practical value, they are simply abandoned. Witness the cars, fridges etc. dumped around the houses in their communities.

Accordingly, vehicles will be abandoned where they fail.... on the road. Eventually someone, often the grader driver, will 'remove' them from the road and this can result in them being inverted. It is far more likely that a 'white' traveller will "incinerate" the abandoned vehicle than its indigenous owner who is no longer interested in it. 'Whitey' is very good at purposely vandalising the environment.

I usually pick up as much garbage as I can while out there. Sadly I don't have the facility to collect effete cars. 99.9% of the wrecks are old Holdens or Falcons - not Prados burned out by spinifex fires. The cars' owners are likely untraceable or on a government handout anyway. Collecting the wrecks benefits us all- who better to do it than government. Governments seem quite happy to collect revenue at every opportunity, how about they do something useful for a change?
Bob

Allan B I'd love to know where you got the information that whitey was more likely to torch a broken down car than it's indigenous previous owner or driver.
I recently watched an episode of bush mechanics and the "burn it so them other blokes can't get it" or words to that effect came up. This show was made by people from Yuendamoo and the cast was indigenous.

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Terry, all that I am prepared to tell you is that it was a police officer who has spent a some years in remote postings. I have known him for a long time and believe what he tells me.

I have not seen your referenced Bush Mechanics episode but from a few observations of TV filmings I am very aware that the script and entire performance is controlled by the Director and they often lead the 'cast' to make expressions that are not extemporaneous. A 'good show' is not left to the ramblings of amateur performers.

Further, if a vehicle is broken beyond use, I doubt that the indigenous owners could care less about it.
I would more believe what my mate tells me than some TV show.

Allan B
My query was not based on the TV show. I thought it added value as it was an old show and showed respect to traditional ways.
I also have a mate who spend significantly more than some years working on communities throughout Northern SA and the Territory. Some of the places he saw burnt out wrecks would be very unlikely to have had the "whitey" you so derogatively refer to anywhere near them.
You've heard of the black dog story. You say I've got a black dog only to get the reply I've got one too and it's blacker than yours.
I reckon my mate would be more informed than your mate.
I think they burn them so the rescue party knows to come. (I may have made that up)
We both probably fall into the trap of taking what we are told at face value.
No skin off my nose. I wondered if you had access to a study done for someones Phd.
Cheers

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Terry, I'm just cynical about the media.

My police officer mate has had a lot of direct involvement with indigenous people, even living in a couple of the communities, so he is pretty well informed of their behaviour and of some touring "whiteys". Yes, the term is "derogative" as the particular section of the caucasian population that I refer to deserve the term.
Is the term "Whites" more acceptable to you?

Haha, so your mate's got a "blacker dog" eh? I don't think anyone needs to spend long in the Police Force to have seen pretty well all there is to see in our society.... Black or White.

Yes, I have several times heard the proposition of "burning for rescue attention" and have put it to my mate. He said "I don't think anyone at the Community would take any notice even if they did see it and neither would I." Maybe a bit like the suburban security alarm that everyone ignores!

No 'Doctoral Study', just my mate. I guess we all accept what we are told by someone we respect...... It's just that I don't respect the media but I have an awesome respect for my mate.

At last count the federals were putting in upwards of $900 million towards communities, I don't know about you Allan but seeing someone have an attitude that it has no intrinsic value is pretty much par for the course when it's free. Glad your happy to stump up every year for new Landcruiser or three so it can be trashed.

I leant pretty quick if you give the kids something for nothing it would be buggered in no time, make them pay and viola.

It is a problem that has been festering for years, no government has been able to address it and then you get clowns like Mundine stirring the pot.

The best part is when someone tries to put forward what may a solution that hasn't even reached a senate it gets shot down in flames by the likes of Perkins and any other lobby group with a self interest.

Cars on the side of the road is just the tip of the iceberg.

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Greg, $900 million?.......... Peanuts! Just today I got a "Project Upgrade" in my letterbox. The Government is about to spend $929.3 million on two traffic interchanges here on the Sunshine Coast.

But youv'e got it wrong. The "attitude that it has no intrinsic value" has little to do with it being "free". It is the indigenous ethos, encompassing thousands of years, that ascribes no value to material possessions. And we whites are unable to come to terms with that belief. We have no way of handling that. This is no criticism of either race. It is simply the fact of the matter.

By the way, "viola" is a musical instrument. 'Voila' is perhaps the word you seek? lol

You beat me to it Greg: it's often been recognised (especially by those with children) that if you didn't have to work hard for something, you will never appreciate or value the true worth of having it.

Tim / Greg / Allan

I can see some parallels on both sides of the fence, dare I call it a divide. 40,000 of indigenous occupation and the environment thrived – Europeans get it for “nicks” and wreck our major waterways, and the land in many instances, in little more than 200 years…

I guess it comes down to what has more “instrinsic value” to you – the land on which you walk, or the “chattels” you place on it…

Agree or disagree as you see fit. I’m not up for a debate on it, just observing and offering a point of view!

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

There is a difference, they light a fire & it's wonderful,for the environment, we light a fire & we go to jail!

Shaker

Our Nationals Parks and State Forestry authorities, amongst others, including farmers, regularly conduct controlled burn-offs. As a kid growing up in North Queensland I used to enjoy watching the cane-fields burn-off before the cutting began – quite spectacular really…!

Like those referred to above, Indigenous Australians’ have a good understanding and appreciation that fire is part of the management and rejuvenation process of the Australian landscape…

I think you’ll be hard pressed to find any of these people being thrown in the “clink” for lighting a fire.

But hey, if by “we” you mean some person tossing a match into the undergrowth on a hot summers day just to get their jollies, then lock ‘em up and throw away the key.

I’m sure we’ll be in agreement!

Good weekend, Baz

It was a tongue in cheek comment!
Although, I look at land around communities in the Outback & struggle to believe that anyone cares, also if you talk to Station owners as I did in Arnhem Land, they light fires to get "their jollies" as well. In fact as a result of one such fire the Station staff had to light a fire to back burn to save property, plant & equipment, believe it or not the police wanted to charge them for lighting fire to save their property, even though the Police were provided with the registration number of the vehicle that sped off from the scene of the first fire, nothing was done!

Does one find it interesting how a perfectly clear simple topic can end up being quite removed from the topic/s now being discussed ?
Don't shoot me , it's just an observation.

Cheers & thanks for the dialogue.
Batsy

batsy, that is a pretty good observation of the degeneration of a topic, from vehicles and trailers abandoned in the outback to where it always goes.

Had a work acquaintance that removed vehicles from remote main stream areas and he was making a good quid with his road train, I don't know who supplied the crusher though.

For those who are so quick to condemn, have a look around your streets at all the abandoned vehicles that the councils have to pick up. In my area there must be a huge influx of indigenous people by the number of cars that are abandoned.

Those same very (WHITE) people can't even get them to the recycling yards a few K's away.

Les, if the said vehicle/camper was left abandoned with no defining ownership details & you chose to go to the effort of recovering then rebuilding it what real story would the insurance company have to tell ??

Cheers
Batsy

Well, you'd have to do it quickly, or it'd be stripped by others, and you'd have to really press them for an almost immediate decision.
Otherwise if you recovered it too soon before they more or less said sorry can't recover (and would they even do that ?) they would be able to say "was nice of you to recover your camper" go ahead and get quotes to fix it thank you".
Unless covered for recovery at an agreed rate (Club4x4 recovery ins for example) you'd be taking a financial risk doing it yourself.
Some might not mind this, others light strip what they could take out and see what transpires, if possible tow over a couple of dunes or into scrub and waypoint to come back.

Even better when people of the same vintage are seen operating them.....no offense intended Phil ??

Cheers
Batsy

Haha - no offense at all.
Its a real pity when they get burnt. Can't use them for spare parts. Often there's a leaf spring or something that gets someone out of trouble.

Some do act as timely reminders - burnt out 4wds on the Canning or Hunt Oil Rd, or older 4wds with nothing more than a burnt out clutch, or the odd Jayco campertrailer. But burnt out commodores and falcons are an eyesore.

Yes, I have heard about this 'crush & collect' activity too.
But I believe its operation depends on the current price paid for scrap steel.

Pretty bold climbing into a derelict car like that. Would absolutely guarantee it's providing cover for at least one deadly snake. Saw a photo once of shifting donga's on a WA mine site - 7 snakes under the first one they shifted.

Fortunately snakes sleep in winter. In any case, when was the last time a snake killed anyone?

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Phil, I think it was in April of this year when a bloke was killed by a Coastal Taipan in Rockhampton.

Gday Allan, Yes a rare event these days - he was a snake handler trying to catch a deadly snake - hopefully not something we tourists try to do!
In Australia, we average 2 deaths a year from snakebites - mostly from people trying to catch or kill snakes. I reckon mozzies kill more people!

The bloke from Alice travels far and wide [ was even on TV a couple of years ago on the show 'Outback Truckers' ] and ventures into QLD every couple of years or so to small-ish places to the car dumps , he did a full load cleanup at Muttaburra round 2 years ago , crushed all thing metal at the dump [ old fridges ,washing machines etc.] built up over 10/ 15 years and 40/50 old cars dumped at the 'car dump' built up over 20 or so years,, made the place look nice , but nowhere then to get that '1 bolt am short of ' …..

Travelling through Port Hedland this winter we saw a huge steel recovery dump, including a pile of wrecked vehicles.

Maybe they get 20c deposit back when returned to Japan!

I have my Dmax and Tvan insured with Club 4x4 , the std Policy has $1500 worth of remote recovery for crash or breakdown , $1500 wouldn't go far in the Simpson Canning or many other remote places .

I did take out a extra $15000 worth of cover for crash or breakdown , I'm covered anywhere in Australia I'm legally allowed to be .

I don't know what they would do if the Vehicle was a total loss , somewhere remote , they might just payout and not recover it ,

I hope I never have to find out .

From recollection of various threads on forums, Club 4x4 Ins have a small amount of recovery ins in their basic policy, think it fairly low though, maybe $1500 ?
An option on their policy is for $15000 recovery cover, can't recall what the premium is, imagine quite a bit.
Edit, Jackolux beat me to it.

I thought some one would do it. I'll have a look at them next time. Also I guess it gives you the option then of recovering and fixing.

Club 4x4 offer $15000 and $30000 remote cover , I took out the $15000 cover it was a extra $140 at the time but things have changed since I took out the policy it is now a bit higher cost

Just my morbid curiosity but I wonder in a case like that, or many others showing abandoned vehicles that very well may be insurance right offs, who is the legal owner of the wreck. As I'm sure most know, the wreck, when recoverable, in an economic sense, becomes the property of the insurance company on pay out of the claim. What ever is left usually gets sold off to a wrecking yard, or whoever is interested, to help the insurer offset some of the cost.
So even though the wreck is in a remote location, wouldn't whatever is left become the property of the insurance company so anyone recovering said wreck without the express permission of the insurer be stealing??
Or is there some statute of limitations whereby if not recovered within a certain time frame the ownership is considered to be relinquished???

Cheers
Pop

Pop, agree it would belong to the insurance company. However I can't see any lilelyhood that they're going to retrieve it - just not worth it. Seen plenty of write off's behind remote garages in my time....

Scott, as you say there are plenty of what seem to be rite offs left, dumped all over the outback.
What I am getting at is if say for example you came across a 40 series that had been rolled and left there. Let's assume an insurance rite off. If you came along and saw that while there was a lot of body damage but all the mechanicals were still there. You thought that you could use them for spares and decided to recover the wreck for yourself.
Unless you could find out who was the owner, and could get written permission, would you be breaking the law by hauling it home for your own use??
In practical terms I know most wrecks get ratted for any useful parts over the years and AFAIK no one seems to get too concerned.
Dunno about you mate, but I know that when I owned any of the 4 40 series I owned I would have been very tempted...LOL.

Cheers
Pop

It seems that they were lucky to survive physically unscathed, mental trauma could be another thing. Luck also came their way with the rescue by the sound of it too. Sad about the loss but as has been said before material things can be replaced, life & limb are a little harder.

Cheers
Batsy

This has nothing to do with the OP's opening post.

Maybe you're responding to a followup or another reply somewhere, but right here it makes no sense at all.

Pay attention Frank. It belongs as a Followup to the post from Batsy immediately above.
You have to allow for spelling and posting errors here. LOL

I'm trying, Allan, I'm trying. :-)

Cheers

I would venture to say that more than one is tourist related but I get your point.
Hope all is well with you again.
Cheers
Batsy