200 Series Landcruiser intercooler air flow

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 13:44
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Hi Guys, I have seen an article recently advising of air flow problems on 200 Series LCs that have been fitted with bull bars. According to the article, the top bar tends to restrict air flow the turbo intercooler, thus reducing power output. Has anyone else seen or heard of this problem?
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Reply By: Gramps - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 13:50

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 13:50
Check the Lcool.org site. If there's nothing there, I doubt the problem exists.

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Follow Up By: McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 14:00

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 14:00
Hi Gramps, I have checked this site, and while no one has registered an issue, several people have asked the same question as I have. The report was in a 4WD magazine.

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Follow Up By: Gramps - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 14:11

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 14:11
Fair enough Macca. Seems strange given how busy the Series 200 forum is on Lcool and how pedantic/precious some of the posters are.

ps Can't blame them for being pedantic/precious given the $$$s outlayed though :)

Regards
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Reply By: Bobjl - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:22

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:22
My current LC 200 Series Diesel with ARB bull bar has travelled 80,000 k,s [including a lot of towing large van] and no issues with overheating. I also had Toyota steel bullbar on previous 200 series which travelled 130,000 k's including 15,000k's towing 3.5 tonne van in hot top end temps.

This does not mean there is not some retriction to airflow, rather it has just not caused me any apparent engine temp issues.

Bob
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 17:30

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 17:30
The issue is not an overheating issue but a power issue related to the intercooler not working efficiently
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:24

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:24
Can't recall seeing an article, but having had a good look at my engine bay, anything stuck to the front of the car is well likely to interfere with the airflow to the intercooler. As I see it, the intercooler has a huge area (compared to some), in order to make up for the modest airflow; if you have a look at the route the air needs to take from the upper front grill through to the aluminium fins, that flow needs all the help it can get ! It seems that a through-scoop on top of the bonnet would improve the situation massively ! I don't have a bullbar on my VX, but if I was going that way, I'd note the commonly seen values on the various gauges and then compare post the install (outside temp - incoming air temp - water temp - engine temp etc.).
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Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:30

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:30
Some relevant discussion here at the home of all wisdom on Landcruisers :-)
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Follow Up By: TomH - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:58

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:58
You cant link to a thread in Lcool as none other than members can read them.

It just goes to the login page
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 19:04

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 19:04
Best to join then.
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Follow Up By: Paul E6 - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 20:29

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 20:29
theres no way a bonnet mounted IC works better than a front mount.
I don't think the major makers even do it anymore.
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Reply By: Bobjl - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:35

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:35
I had a closer look at the Grill /air intake area on my 2013 VX. It is below the lower part of the top cross bar of the Bull bar.There are two large air induction rams/venturi's that are behind the grill placed about a foot apart and clearly are to channel the air to the intercooler. Having now had a good look, I doubt my bull bar placement/position relative to grill, would cause an issue. If operating in extreme heat with heavy loads, then any add on that can keep engine cooler including for example a transmission oil cooler, may assist.
Bob
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 17:57

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 17:57
Yes, the 120 Series Prado had the same system - intakes at the front above the radiator channelling air through ducts built into the bonnet to the top-nounted intercooler.

My son disparagingly called it an interheater, and I think he was right. I had a dark blue car - that bonnet and metal ductwork would have got pretty hot on sunny days, and at low speeds there would not have been much airflow.

Some keen guys mounted Davies-Craig fans above the intercooler to force a stronger airflow - they fitted into the recess in the bonnet.

OP may be able to do something similar in his 200 Series.

I think on the 150 Series Toyota went to a front-mounted intercooler.

Cheers
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:42

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 15:42
I'm amazed that modern vehicles don't have more overheating issues when you consider what is sitting in the airflow.
Apart from the fact that a vehicle like the 200 Land Cruiser, has an auto transmission cooler dumping heat into the cooling system, you also have taking priority, in the airflow, the said intercooler, an air con condenser and then the poor old engine radiator. Then on top of all that, with a 200 like my young bloke has, out front there sits a 'roo bar, a pair of spotties that could light up the WACA, and a winch.
Admittedly his Jayco pop top expander van is pretty light at about 1800 kg but he works in the Pilbara with it's 40 + degree ambients at this time of year.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 19:03

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 19:03
There is also a power steering oil cooler on the RHS in front of the radiator!
But its an amazing cooling system - I towed the caravan last march in 40+ degree heat from Adelaide to Brisbane and the measured coolant temps (scangauge and engine watchdog) stayed happily in the eighties.
Its an interesting post though - I've not seen anyone complain about the intercooler temps even though it takes air through the top of the grille and through the double skin bonnet. My bullbar sits at same height as front of the bonnet, so probably doesn't affect it. But I don't block off the airflow with lights either.
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Reply By: Loddo48 - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 19:46

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 19:46
With the amount of bugs that I have to remove from my intercooler after every country trip I do not think the bull bar and lights stop too much air flow.
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Reply By: Paul E6 - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 20:27

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 20:27
I find it unlikely there would be any difference that you could feel in this case.
negligible in my opinion.
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Reply By: RMD - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 20:46

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 20:46
A restriction of airflow through the intercooler probably won't heat the engine, but it will/may increase intake airtemp which means LESS oxygen in the cylinder and a hotter burn of pressured aircharge and fuel. Less oxygen in the cylinders will reduce power. SimiIar effect to high altitude where there is less air for the turbo to compress.

I think that is what the poster is meaning.

Not sure what relevance all the other items mentioned have on the issue posted.
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Follow Up By: Bobjl - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 21:07

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 21:07
You may be correct in your first paragraph and that may assist OPand others.

It is unfortunate that you felt the need to say..Not sure what relevance all the other items mentioned have on the issue posted.

The OP enquiry was reasonably responded to by contributors in my opinion.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 21:29

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 21:29
G'Day Bbjl.

I can't see the presence of the auto or the power steering or the radiator or aircon condenser are an issue in the low of power caused by increased intake airflow temp which definitely rarifies the air, other items do not Therefore, probably they shouldn't be considered in the mix.

Rarified air, ie, on a very hot day, almost eliminated the turbo effect of my HJ61.
There was no intercooler and so the effect was felt far more than an engine which has an intercooler. The intercooler, where fitted, acts as a buffer and subsequently not causing such a loss when air intake temp is higher than normal/desired.


RMD
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Follow Up By: Bobjl - Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 21:59

Wednesday, Dec 07, 2016 at 21:59
Noted RMD.
You make good points and yes there may have been some drift/slightly off the exact enquiry, all well intended and interesting contributions I felt.

Trying to help OP several LCool members [inc myself] searched that forum to see if anything specific about restrictions as per enquiry, without any success.

The information that OP had heard about was it seem anecdotal at best as there is no credible refernce to the issue that many of us have looked for. The restriction of air flow to the Intercooler is one point and may not be of any concern, however the restriction of air to the Radiator by bull bars spotties and winches, may be.

OP may get further comfort from posting his enquiry on LCOOL 200 forum, Admin might help.

Bob

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Reply By: Member - sparra - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 08:57

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 08:57
Just talking about the airflow a couple of days ago with my good mate Boof from Bairnsdale (exploroz member),he has a 200 series. He is thinking about a bonnet scoop (like my 79 series) to improve the airflow to the inter cooler.

Cheers, Sparra
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Follow Up By: McLaren3030 - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 11:08

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 11:08
I currently have a 76 Series, and was thinking exactly the same. I am going to upgrade to a 200 Series next year. I believe a bonnet scoop similar to the 70 Series would greatly improve the airflow to the inter cooler.
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Reply By: TomH - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 09:16

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 09:16
Not owning a 200 ser Im not sure if this idea will help.

In the heat when towing a van my 100ser had a very high under bonnet temp. I removed the fexible inner guard panels and the temp dropped somewhat.

Sometimes its not how much air you can get in but how much heat you can get out and providing extra exit points may help.

Im not sure how a bonnet scoop will help as it will bring air in BEHIND the intercooler wont it
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 10:43

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 10:43
Unless Toyota have changed their design or the vehicle has had a mod, it's a top-mounted intercooler. The scoop would feed air directly to it.
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Follow Up By: TomH - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 13:50

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 13:50
Oh well there you go An intercooler on top of a hot engine. Wonder why the drifters put them out the front Cant be the proper way. LOL
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 14:32

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 14:32
Yes, Tom. And "cooled" by a fairly restricted flow of air that has been pre-heated (in Oz, anyway) as it passes between the skins of the bonnet. Hence my son's re-naming it the interheater. :-)
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Reply By: Jackolux - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 12:44

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 12:44
I don't have a 200 series but I have just watched a Video on Berrima Deisels Face Book page on this exact topic concerning a 200 Toyota , apparently it can be a issue .
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Follow Up By: Bobjl - Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 19:24

Thursday, Dec 08, 2016 at 19:24
Thanks Jackolux, Berrima Diesel video sheds some credible light on the matter.

The Bull Bar involved is a large diameter Alloy Tubing and as you will have seen, it's placement does impede air intake area.

They also mention mesh guard in front of grill as another source of restriction.

https://www.facebook.com/berrimadiesel/

Bob
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Reply By: Ken - Friday, Dec 09, 2016 at 21:48

Friday, Dec 09, 2016 at 21:48
Perhaps the person pushing this theory should have a look at where the air actually enters on a 200 series. The vents are 80mm below the bottom of the 50mm top tube, to have any detrimental effect the top tube must be massive !
Ken
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