Dont mention duel batteries again Plan B

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 02:34
ThreadID: 13410 Views:1332 Replies:12 FollowUps:15
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1. Main cranking battery 'A' no direct connection to battery 'B
2. Battery 'B' is being charged by a battery charger through an 240 volt inverter
3. Spend one third of the dollars and get a good charge on to the axuaillary deep cycle battery, unlike a charge through an alternator.
4. No expensive dual battey setup.
5. No problems with solenoids geting stuck
6. All accessories from the deepcycle
7. No Auto electrician with fancy circuts. Buy off the shelf cheap
8.Battery 'B' is automatically charging as the car is started up.

Could anyone who has a better understanding of these matters, could they any check for flawed thinking.

Thank U FAt Boy
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Reply By: Andrew & Jen (Melb) - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 06:45

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 06:45
I have always thought that something like that sounds sensible but have thought that it was somewhat inefficient to change from 12 to 240 with the inverter only to change it back to 12 again. The other issue is that the Deep Cycle batteries seem to take ages to charge fully and you might have to drive around for 15 hours per day. Also if you use a bigger charger, you might need a bigger inverter. Have never done the sums to work out how it would go.
Andrew
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Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:29

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:29
Never thought of that, thanks Andrew.
The fat one.
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Reply By: Lone Wolf - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 07:31

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 07:31
Did I miss the bit about the really really looooooong extension cord?
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Reply By: Peter - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 07:42

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 07:42
Have a look here at the twin charge battery charge controller

http://www.12volt.com.au/webcat2003/daulbatt.html

Seems like a good idea just connect to relay to ignition and away you go.

AnswerID: 61469

Follow Up By: Rosscoe - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 09:00

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 09:00
I keep reading about the Arrid Twin Charger, which is also described on the sight you nominated.
Do you know of anyone who has used this device and are claims of 100% charge, correct.
I've been quoted $78 (No-name) to $300 (Arrid) with similar claims of 100% charge.
I have dual batteries in my 4WD with a Sure Products Smart Separater and third battery in my dirt road van. It's this third battery I want to get to 100% charge while I'm on the road.
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Follow Up By: phil - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 12:08

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 12:08
The ARRID Twin Charge appears to be an inverter syatem which accepts unregulated 12v and delivers an appropriate charging voltage and current for the auxillary battery. They are limited to 20Amp.
This system should be excellent for batteries which are remote from the main battery, especially in camper trailers etc. because it removes the voltage drop in the cable from consideration and should ensure a fully charged battery, if you can wait long enough! 20 amp is plenty for a deep discharge battery.
Phil
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Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:36

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:36
Peter thanks kindly for that wonderful piece of info

Fat Guts
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Follow Up By: Rosscoe - Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 10:24

Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 10:24
G'day Phil,

That's what I understand. But I'm hearing conflicting reports as to how it handles the output. Some say it is not a "smart" charger", others say its a 3-stage charger, and still others say it simply outputs 14 V DC for inputs down to 9 or 10V.
The last two comments come from different distributors.
Arrid refer me to their distributors for technical inquiries.
If it only puts out 14 V then the current into the battery will be insufficient to "fully" charge the battery once the battery voltage rises to that value even though it can deliver 20A.
Can some one explain how these things work
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Reply By: Peter - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 07:42

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 07:42
Have a look here at the twin charge battery charge controller

http://www.12volt.com.au/webcat2003/daulbatt.html

Seems like a good idea just connect to relay to ignition and away you go.

AnswerID: 61470

Reply By: Dave from Fraser Coast 4WD Club - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 08:10

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 08:10
THe inverter and charger will take more juice to run than they will put out, I guess that if you have a really high out put alternator, this will be fine.

COnsider also that whe the car is running (and charger is charging the batteries) there will always be some drain on the 2nd battery (you say that everything is running off it) therefore your charger will be outputing at max output all the time, this is not good for the charger.

By making this simple system with "no solenoids getting stuck" and no "fancy circuits" you have made a much more complicated and extremely inefficient system.

Talk to your auto electrician about making a diode pack that will allow you to 'trick' the alternotr (or regulator more precisely) into a higher output voltage if you really want to be able to "cook" the DC.

or do what more and more people are doing and forget the DC and go for a hybrid like the exide extreme.

Is your car diesel?? if so, have you considered that you will be trying to glow the motor off the 2nd battery, not a great idea.

Seriously DB setups aren't hard to do, mine works a treat and is very simple to operate (TJM IBS) it wasn't that expensive and I've only had to replace 1 solenoid (last year) in 6 years. In my books, with the treatment that my truck recieves, that's pretty good!

I know that you are trying to think outside the box, but in all seriousness, I think that you'll end up with dramas and will then spend the money on a DB anyway.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:40

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:40
Thanks Dave for that very involved and well thought through response.

Old Blubber
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Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 08:48

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 08:48
If Batt b is flat and you drive for an hour you could expect a 100 amp alt to put in 30-40amps , but a 10amp 240 charger ( physical size will restict you) will only put in about 6-8 amps in the same time.
Forget all the crap and buy yourself a 80 amp relay and wire it in to come on when ignition is activated and put an 80 amp lead to the batt b and presto less than $60. jobs done.
As an added back up if it breaks down while away you can put a jump lead across batterys during the day and unclip at night to keep yourself going.
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Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:43

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:43
Well done Pesty, concise and clear and easy to follow for us novices.

Object of Fatness
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Reply By: Cruisergxl - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 12:10

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 12:10
I have my set up wired to a second oil pressure switch so that in addition to being wired through the ignition so it will only come on when the engine is actually turning over.

I actually use two 30 amp relays in parallel, not an ideal solution but I happened to have them and they are voltage spike protected witha couple of zener diodes across their coils.

Whole thing seems to work fine thus far, have never actually got out the hydrometer to check if the battery is fully charged.

As said before in the rare situation that you need to use your auxillary to assist starting then get out your jump leads!

Cheers,

Chris
AnswerID: 61482

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:47

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:47
Chris u appear to be completely on top of your own personal system, with a good knowledge of electronics. The second oil switch is a nice touch.

Complete Fatness
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 12:41

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 12:41
Ineffeciant is the key here I think, not to mention that you should turn your inverter off before doing any serious water crossings (zzzap!) hee hee.
There are much simpler ways to go about it (mentioned above), my little Jaycar (silicone chip) system works great, give me less than a 0.05v voltage drop through the isolater, diodes are great but they can have a 0.5v voltage drop!
My whole system cost me $60 bucks (already had dual bats in paralell) and it charges the deep cycle pretty damn good, it'll show 14v on the display while charging without the headlights on.
I still whip out the 240v charger and give it a good fry before we go away on a trip though, just to make sure.
AnswerID: 61486

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:50

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:50
I like it Jeff............ Thse Kiss principle.........'
Well done

Fattybombar
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 13:20

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 13:20
LMAO with all the confusion, I just went a piranha system.. it works, 30mins to fit, wasnt cheapest on earth, but ... WORKS.
AnswerID: 61489

Follow Up By: Shawn - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:00

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:00
Same here Truckster, but I ended up getting it cheap, the fella forgot to charge me for the battery tray and battery, what a deal.
Cheers
Shawn
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Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:52

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 14:52
Cant argue with something tried and true.
Thanks Truckster and Shawn.

The Fat one.
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Follow Up By: Baz (NSW) - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 15:20

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 15:20
fat, we have the Arrid twin charge system it suits us because the second batt is in the camper, and it is claimed that it increases the voltage when it detects voltage drop so as to keep charging the second battery at the desired rate, but it's a personal choice if the system you have now works, dont change, we did what was best for us, took a little longer to install but whats 1/2 hour or so.

Baz.
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Reply By: Magnus - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 16:25

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 16:25
Fat,

The other posts have address the charging while going issue. What about when you are stopped in one place for a week because the fishing is good or the scenery is great etc.

You will need to top up the second battery if it running all the camp gear with a generator, running the vehicle or a solar panel.

Good gen sets will set you back about $1k and a decent solar panel to put out 2 amps about $400 or so.

If you are staying put for any length of time you need to calculate your daily amp draw and arrange a way to replace that daily draw down or let your battery go flat.

Cheers

Magnus

AnswerID: 61516

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 00:11

Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 00:11
Brilliant. Solar is no big deal these days prices are dropping every year.
Thanks Magnus

Oh tunnel bellybutton
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Reply By: Mrs Diamond - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 18:30

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 18:30
are you confused yet lol.
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Follow Up By: fat bastard - Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 00:14

Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 00:14
Just wetting my appetite. There is nothing more fulfilling than, to have a problem, research it and get right.

Guru of Fatness
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Reply By: Jimbo - Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 19:01

Thursday, Jun 03, 2004 at 19:01
Lardarse,

Be very wary about Pirahna, they are EXPENSIVE. Talk to a few auto elecs about a simple or smart solenoid. Also consider an AGM battery as they can absorb a huge charge in a short time. Conventional deep cycles batteries dont like to absorb more than about 5 A/h regardless of what your alternator is putting out.

Regards,

Jim.
AnswerID: 61545

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 00:18

Friday, Jun 04, 2004 at 00:18
Big Bad Jimbo I love man who can steer me clear of expensive options. My wife certainly cant.

Fee foe fiy fum I can smell the bum of a fat one
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