Camp fire etiquette

Hi Alan

Totally agree and have been on the other end of an exploding rock.

We use a SnowPeak when in areas where we can not dig a safe hole and they are safe, put out as much heat as a normal camp fire and pack away flat when stored in your vehicle.


Cheers




Stephen

If the day comes when I can't have a fire, total fire bans excepted, I will give up camping.
I once travelled three quarters around Australia, as much on unsealed roads and tracks as possible and without any artificial heat source for cooking
The best trip I ever had.
There were some places I couldn't go to but generally saw most things I wanted to.
Long may it last
Ross

Ross, the day has come to many campgrounds and this will only increase. I imaging there will be some area that allow fires for years to come. I am fiercely against fires in inappropriate places (deserts for one, unless you bring your fuel with you) and have lobbied councils and National Parks in three states to disallow fires in certain sites, but I cannot see the logic in banning them in all sites (I do not believe this will happen.

I love a campfire myself (having been building them for over 50 years) but I'd say around 70% of our camping now does not include a fire. If you are going to give up camping just because you can't have a fire-
1. There are a lot of campsites off your radar now (unless, like many, you illegally and irresponsibly ignore the rules).
2. I'd personally be questioning what you get out of camping anyway?

I too enjoy a campfire at every opportunity. Even when its been 35deg during the day, it can be 15 of a night, so apart from cooking ( how else do you do spuds wrapped in alfoil ?), its surprising how often you have one for warmth.....

And nothing better than relaxing by a fire with a stubbie in hand gazing at the stars.....

Not sure why you can't have one in a desert, as long as you bring your own wood ?

Gronk,
I, too, don't follow the argument against fires in the desert.
70% of mainland Australia consist of desert and the population density is extremely
low even allowing for travellers so the "damage" potential is virtually non existant.
For example, last year we travelled the Anne Beadell and during its approx 800 KM
we saw 3 other parties travelling in the opposite direction over 8 days.
Assuming the same number travelling in our direction there was a total 7 parties on the road over 8 days. assuming that was representative of traffic density for 40 weeks of the year and assuming ALL of the travellers have a fire EVERY night then
over a year there is on average one fire every 350 metres on one very small part of a desert which covers 350000 sq km;s.
By any stretch of the imagination no serious damage will be caused.
We can't let the no fires brigade spread totally misleading arguments without countering them with facts
Ross

Assumptions are not facts Ross, unless of course you happen to be a politician.

The biggest issue with travellers and fires in the desert has nothing to do with population density, it is the environmental damage caused to a very fragile ecosystem when a group of people gather and start burning every log, stick and twig within staggering distance with absolutely no concern for whatever life forms are destroyed.

We all know that the size of a fire increases commensurate to the amount of alcohol consumed and that is not an assumption, that is fact.

Dusty

Thanks Dusty D,
Your follow up precisely illustrates my point about the anti fire brigade and their lack of factual argument.
To link alcohol consumption with responsible desert travellers is misleading to say the least
As to burning every log, stick and twig within staggering distance is an emotive, sweeping generalisation with no supporting evidence.
It certailnly has not been my experience over many years of desert travel.
You cast doubt on my facts by calling them assumptions put reply with only your assertions which are devoid of fact
Ross

Hmmm, I wasn't real flash in English classes at school Ross, but I'm pretty sure that when someone uses the word "assuming" three times in the one sentence, the point they are trying to put across would be best described as assumptions and not actual facts.

Perhaps you are talking about these new "alternate facts".

I've been a desert traveller for many years also Ross as well as many other remote areas and I have seen first hand on numerous occasions the destruction caused by those who don't give a damn for the environment. In a lot of these cases I can certainly link excessive consumption of alcohol to the behaviour of the offenders. The rubbish they leave behind is testament to that.

With the increase in numbers of people travelling through desert areas there also comes an increase in unacceptable practices such as burning anything they can find which includes every log, stick and twig near some camps.

Sure, responsible travellers do the right thing, it's the irresponsible that don't and their numbers are definitely increasing right across the country.

I'm not a member of the "anti fire brigade" as you put it Ross, I enjoy a fire, but not to the detriment of the environment.

Dusty

The question of the camping practices of others has been well canvassed in a number of threads on the EO site in recent times and perhaps comes under a broader topic of “camping etiquette”.

And not surprisingly so, what is clear from these discussions is that we all have our own interpretation of what is reasonable, or what is fair – the variances in opinion is wide as evidenced in this thread on fires.

In our travels we have seen campfires that would be best described as a “towering inferno” that has every bit of dead-timber in proximity torched on the pyre. Others appear to be restrained in the use of fire.

For us, we enjoy a camp fire when appropriate and after taking into account the prevailing weather conditions and possible threats to our immediate area from burning a fire. We certainly don’t feel we need one every day...

But on desert areas specifically, these are ecologically sensitive areas and the limited amount of dead-wood in these areas provide a habitat for insects, small mammals and reptiles. Dead-wood also plays a part in soil erosion control and helps plants establish in a difficult environment.

Over time, the removal of dead-wood from these areas does have an impact, especially if the “towering inferno brigade” is on the move. There are well researched and documented articles that support this view. In many desert park areas this is controlled by either not allowing fires, or by allowing fires with wood sourced elsewhere and brought into the area by campers. But even this has problems associated with it as it potentially brings in weeds and other plants not native to the immediate area…

Am I sounding like a “greenie” – if thinking about the environment puts me in that category, then so be it…

Someone else pinpointed one of the key problems with fire management and assessment of suitability when camping, and that is many people are not exposed to it in their daily lives anymore, leading to safety issues, which was the point of this thread, and to suitability and correct campfire etiquette.

Before we put a match to the campfire whenever we are Out and About we always pause and ask ourselves, do we need one, what impact will firewood collection have on the area, and are the prevailing weather conditions suitable for a fire…

By employing these simple “rules” we do our bit for the environment, after all the appeal of travelling these areas is the special beauty it has, so best we protect it…

But hey, sitting back around a campfire enjoying each other’s company is a great way to spend an evening when suitable and appropriate…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

"Am I sounding like a “greenie” – if thinking about the environment puts me in that category, then so be it…"

I think most responsible travellers have a bit of a green streak Baz, it's just that the shade varies.

Dusty

Perhaps travellers should be required to submit a EIS before
setting of. :)
Dave.

when camping in the vicinity around the Murray near towns, I'm always shocked by the stripped-bare appearance of the areas near the banks, where people camp most

Was looking through some photos from a trip into one of our Western deserts and I came across this one.

To me it amplifies just how priceless scarce deadwood in desert country is for reptiles...

This is what keeps me coming back to the "desert country"...fires, I'll take or leave, especially if it preserves habitats like this. But, hey, that is my preference, may not be everyone's - I get that...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

Quote: "when camping in the vicinity around the Murray near towns, I'm always shocked by the stripped-bare appearance of the areas near the banks, where people camp most"

Didn't you think that maybe the water "sweeps it" when the river is in flood?

perhaps, but I ddint think it would often enough get that high near Echuca. If it did, the town wouldn't be there now.
plus there is lots of physical evidence of human destruction.

I have also seen steam burns from pouring water on the coals. We never restoke the fire on the day that we are leaving, just use gas instead.
As mentioned above, my pet hate is people throwing drink cans & stubbies in to the fire.

In Victoria fires have to be a maximum of 1 metre in diameter & logs no longer than 1 metre.

I'm with the club president.

There is absolutely no excuse for burning rubbish on the fire while people are still sitting there, it's inconsiderate & selfish which is exactly the way our society has gone!

If it is combustible rubbish then why not burn it?

Because it's bloody ignorant!
Burn it when people have left the fire, not while they are sitting there.

that reminds me of a time camping overnight with some grown-up-with-kids surfing mates - and their preteen boys.
one of them chucks a bag of various plastic food wrapper leavings into the fire. Dad didnt say anything, so I mumble "don't put that on the fire" and pulled it out. I didnt trust him not to do it again, so I put it in one of the cars about 20m away.
The little (cant think of a clean word) then retrieves it and does it again!
It stayed in there that time. What a little prick.
I don't have kids and I'm not his daddy, so I didnt have to be nice to him, and wasn't.

That is a nice solution if you're just a few people. Not great for a group of 10 or so people with a bunch of kids. Camping fires and cooking with just a few of people is a different issue. I use an Ezyspit in that situation or if I want to protect the ground surface. Very compact and good for up to about 8 people. Fits an Auspit rotisserie too.

If the wind is up, IMHO it's time to forget the open fire, it isn't legal or safe regardless of design. Embers can cause fires a long way away. Back to the gas stove for those days unfortunately.

The last time I went bush, my mate reckoned the only way to cook was on the fire. The next night, it was my turn. I fired up the gas BBQ I had brought along and got a mouthful of shit. After eating the meal I produced, the next night, he asked if I was going to use my BBQ again. We used it every night after that. Mind you, it is a Ziegler and Brown, or a weber if you like. But it cooks just great. We do have a slide out cooker, but this is the ducks nuts. We only use the slide out to boil water.

Does the ziegler do roast spuds wrapped in alfoil...?.and come out nice and brown ?

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but a campfire is usually the centrepiece of a campspot.

Although nowadays I usually use my own fireplace.....a little 800mm round flying saucer on legs....uses less wood and gets the heat up a bit closer to the body..

I must say, it does amaize me that people go to the trouble of taking those webber Q's and similar all the way to the bush so they have the privilege of cooking on a gas derived from petrol.

IMHO nothing beats cooking on coals.

Certainly bad things can happen...fire and kids......but in the current nanny state we live in, parents should do what they always were supposed to, and that is supervise their kids.....whether it is by the creek or by the fire.

Driving to the campsite is dangerous, but I think most adults have learnt how to minimise risks in life......although there are still the few that try and spoil it for everyone.