200 series air cleaner not filtering dust!

Submitted: Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 09:52
ThreadID: 134397 Views:16229 Replies:16 FollowUps:30
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Hello All,
We have a 2014 VDJ200 that has dust found on the intake to the engine after the air cleaner.
We have returned the vehicle to Toyota several times to be told this is acceptable. The vehicle now has 70000klm on it.
In a trip we sit well behind so the dust has seatled. I have tried foam tape, denso tape, grease and a new air cleaner each high country trip.... still have days passing the seals. Have only ever used genuine parts. The air filter has been changed as per Toyota service schedule.
We do love this vehicle, we still have our 2005 update 100TD. If we can not stop the dust we feel keeping the 100 is our solution.
What have you guys done to resolve this issue. Do the 200 series owners have this issue?
We also have a snorkel.
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Reply By: RMD - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 12:59

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 12:59
Why don't you investigate a Unifilter which will filter out the fine dust and probably seal too. I used a Unifilter in my HJ61 Turbo for more than 20 years and it never let through any fine dust into the intake tract from the airbox.

The edges of the OE filter DID seal but the paper filter let through fine stuff which accumulated on the intake piping to the turbo.
After cleaning and fitting a Unifilter no more fine dust was ever seen on it's way to the engine.

I am very aware of dust having had to replace a turbo on a Large Cat dozer (D7) after it sucked in dust and wore away ALL traces of turbo fins on the turbos compressor. It had shiny lines but absolutely no vanes left to even feel. High speed turbos AND dust means eroding of turbo wheel vanes does happen.
Yes a Unifilter has to be periodically washed and cleaned and re oiled with the correct amount of goo/oil, but even if you bought two filters, one as a spare, it won't end up costing as much as what it costs/is costing, you for the supply of OE filters, nowhere near.

Navaras, Some Dmax and may other vehicles have similar sealing problems with OE filters. It is never seen as a problem by dealers because if they admit to it then they pay for the replacement engine too. Strange that behaviour, isn't it?
AnswerID: 609089

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 14:00

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 14:00
Unifilters are not necessary the ideal answer.
The surface area of the filter is far less than the OE filter, meaning it will clog faster. There are also some reports of the OE sensors downwind from the filter being affected by the oil from the Unifilter.
Not saying it wont be better, just suggesting that it is worthwhile checking these and any possible warranty effect before putting one in.
CJ
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FollowupID: 878853

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 14:32

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 14:32
A filter which works is the issue.

The surface area as presented in the Unifilter in the 2011 Dmax I have cleans the air, requires very little servicing and does definitely flow more air than the original. I made a vacuum, flow test rig especially to check it. Unifilter make filters so as not to restrict the airflow and usually are better/less restriction than the OE. Check of course.

The issue of sensors being contaminated, (mine is 130mm from the filter itself and has never had stuff parked on it. If the Unifilter or any filter is over treated or simply dripping with the treatment then maybe that will cause a problem. Still, You can clean a dirty sensor with a couple of sprays of CRC sensor cleaner, far better than having to replace worn rings, pistons etc, easier too.

If you have the dealer sanctioned dust or NO dust entering the engine, I know what I would prefer. A dealer WILL NOT lose whatever happens, the owner may be disadvantaged quite a bit.
Ask the dealer to OK (in writing) a Unifilter, so the dust isn't entering the engine. See if he recognizes the advantage of clean air going in, or outback Australia being cycled through the V8. Ask him to make a fair judgement on that.

Test the guts of his conviction to the issue. Make him take photos of the dust and record it and have it certified as received by Toyota Warranty Engineers with them contacting you to confirm the receiving of the issue. Then they are put on the spot to fix the issue or accept the inevitable accelerated wear as THEIR problem and responsibility.
Anything is better than dust going IN.

Customers should NEVER be placed in a position of having to keep a previous vehicle over an expensive modern vehicle which they already own, for the sake of some sand.
If dust is going IN and pictures are presented to a Fair Trade Tribunal the owner may be receiving a NEW V8 model soon. Bad publicity in the press and records in state tribunals have amazing results.

A friend I helped in '14/'15 received $39,500 back from Nissan/Dealer for his defective Navara with a bent chassis.
PS has the dealer actually contacted Toyota regarding the issue or simply claimed what he says is the state of the nation? Check the status of that!
Possibly, not implicitly trusting the dealers words is a wise thing to do.
1
FollowupID: 878854

Follow Up By: mick78 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:38

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:38
RMD,

You are correct, customers should never have to keep previous vehicle due to issues with a new one.
We chose the 200 for the 100 is on 175000 and it's manual to have a newer auto car to eliminate failures when outback in the 100. But, it appears the 200 is not what we thought it is....

For the three visits to toyota, I only have a letter to say if the air box is proving the cause of dust it will honour warranty on new engine. The current pics are showing ok as per pictures.

Toyota wouldn't even replace the air cleaner. Just say it is acceptable.....

Cheers
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FollowupID: 878874

Reply By: CSeaJay - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 14:07

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 14:07
Mick
I have seen air filters on all models landcruisers worse than your photo. All I am saying is that it is not just you.

I guess the real question is whether the dust that gets through more than spec and does it affect the motor?

Going on history only I'd suggest the answer is propably 'no'.

But you are doing the right thing to have it checked and having it on record.

CJ
AnswerID: 609091

Follow Up By: mick78 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:24

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:24
Hello CJ,

I have had a fj40, 60, 80, still have my td100. These do not have any dust in the intake. The 200 should be no different.

On other social medial other owners are having dust issue also. Only when toyota changed to panel filter this has become a issue.

Dust is the cause of left turbo and left bank failures.

Thanks
1
FollowupID: 878869

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 16:19

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 16:19
If you have a snorkel, maybe you can try a dust sock inside it or a head on the top of the snorkel that seperates the dust! Michael
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AnswerID: 609093

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 17:33

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 17:33
A snorkel sock is only a bandaid measure and doesn't fix the airfilter issue. The sock severely restricts intake airflow volume. Maybe if you are forced to drive right behind someone with no alternative, then the sock.
1
FollowupID: 878860

Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 18:07

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 18:07
The airfilter per say is NOT the problem on the 200 series.Dust doesn't get through the filter, it's the dust that gets past the seal on the filter.

I believe the airbox has always been a problem, and doesn't clamp down effectively.

Solution ? Don't know.....I have a 200 series and I'd like to know of one as well.

1
FollowupID: 878862

Follow Up By: Sigmund - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:00

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:00
Unifilter make a 'droopie' to go in the snorkel and team up with the main filter. They say it traps 90% of the dust.

As for blow-by, that's known to occur with some Euro bikes and it *does* trash engines. Owners have reported engine replacement under warranty. In some cases a Unifilter takes up the gaps, in others new seals or complete filter redesign is called for.
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Follow Up By: mick78 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:27

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:27
Hell Michael,

I understand what you are saying. My issue is the air box need a redesign, the air box is the issue.

My other thought is if dust is passing so will water in a river crossing.

Thanks
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FollowupID: 878870

Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 17:00

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 17:00
I have had dust accumulation similar to your observation.

I approached the Toyota dealership in Alice Springs where I was shown documentation from Toyota where dust particles of 2 microns is acceptable and causes no ill affect.

I have a V8 single cab, same engine as yours.
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AnswerID: 609095

Follow Up By: mick78 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:30

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:30
Hey Pinko,

Did Alice springs have a fix for this issue?

A human hair is 75 microns. I am unsure how toyota can say 2 micron is fine... it's fine for the warranty period. Then it's the owners problem.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 878872

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 10:55

Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 10:55
2 microns is very fine and very few filters of any type will stop high persentage of particles less than 5 microns.

cheers
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FollowupID: 878944

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 14:25

Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 14:25
Might be wrong but a paper automotive filter doesn't filter down past more than 6 microns.
My understanding anyway. If Toyota have a filter of that size that filters down to 2 microns, no wonder it pulls air past the seals.
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Reply By: Member - Steve R (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 17:15

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 17:15
Hi
I have a 2013 200 Series Diesel with a snorkel and have never had any significant dust ingress in the airbox. Have a look at the LCOOL website where this issue has been raised.

Just a suggestion - are you sure it is in the right way and are all the clips done up properly?

Regards
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Follow Up By: mick78 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:33

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 20:33
Hello Steve,

I have checked out LCOOL, lots have experienced the outcome I have been trying to avoid-new engine. I am trying to find a fix..

The air cleaner is in the correct way, toyota have checked this also and wipe the dust out and say it's fixed.

The clamps can not be any tighter for the top housing bottoms out on the lower with out the filter installed.

Thanks
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FollowupID: 878873

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 12:08

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 12:08
Mick

You say the LCOOL outcome suggest "lots have a new engine" as a result of dust?

This is not supported in anything I have read in there. Not the new engine, nor ill effects of dust coming through.

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FollowupID: 878897

Follow Up By: mick78 - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 12:30

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 12:30
Hey Cseajay,

Do a search for "dust" on 200 section and you will find lots of threads with engine failures and dust passing issues.

I have posted this to see if anyone has found a solution. If this continues I will be forking out large amounts of cash for a replacement engine.

Also, a 200 series FB page has photos and chats about dusted engines.

This is a issue that toyota has to sort out...
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FollowupID: 878930

Reply By: Paul and Mel - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 21:07

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 21:07
This is common on the twin turbo's only. Replace the air cleaner element every 10K or you will have a well dusted engine by 250K. Huge amounts of air getting pulled through the filter causes the fine particles to be pulled through the filter median.
AnswerID: 609101

Follow Up By: mick78 - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 22:10

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 22:10
Hello Paul,

Has this method been effective for your 200? The manual states severe service is 15000klm.

i have bought a new filter and yet to test on another trip.

Thanks
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FollowupID: 878879

Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 22:36

Thursday, Mar 02, 2017 at 22:36
If you look at his photos ( and I have seen it on mine as well ) the dust is getting past the seal...not the filter median. And whatever you do....do not blow out the filter with compressed air.

On mine, after installing a snorkel, it has largely fixed the problem as I very rarely follow anyone on dusty roads or tracks.

And Mick78, don't take any advice from the manual. Same as there is NO service interval for the fuel filter.....only change it if the light comes on ?? WTF ??
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FollowupID: 878881

Follow Up By: AlanTH - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 10:42

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 10:42
Why not blow out with compressed air? If it's done correctly from the inside out the filter is not harmed.
I worked on a minesite years ago (lots of sites actually) and filters were changed twice a day as dust was the big killer of machinery.
The "used" filters (mostly CAT) were shipped back to Perth to be washed professionally and then sent back to site. Too expensive to throw away after a few hours work.
But blowing out a filter the wrong way just forces dirt in and it then gets sucked into the engine.
I had to get stuck into a mobile mechanic north of Perth for doing just that to my Prados filter.... and he said he couldn't see anything wrong with it!
He also got caught not doing grease nipples and using 5 different types of oil in the engine which he also reckoned was OK so.... he now runs a service business and I've warned people I know about his skills but I wonder if they take any notice?
AlanTH.
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FollowupID: 878895

Follow Up By: Gronk - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 10:15

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 10:15
Been well documented that blowing out the filter CAN open up the pores of the filter and increase the size of the "holes" .....or worse still, actually blow holes in the filter ( still small enough that you wouldnt notice them )..

Getting a filter "serviced" by a company that knows what they're doing is a different thing again !

For $35, as opposed to hundreds for an industrial type filter, changing it is a no brainer!
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FollowupID: 878924

Reply By: Member - DOZER - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 12:07

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 12:07
Mick, i note you are using genuine filters, this is good because ive heard....the aftermarket ones are thinner across the seal that sits between the top and bottom.
Im wondering if the spring clips that hold the top to the bottom are tensioned enough, and if the inlet pipework from the motor is pushing the ait cleaner top off the seal when the motor cranks over under load....
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AnswerID: 609115

Follow Up By: mick78 - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 12:23

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 12:23
Hey Dozer,

I have read that the ryco filter seal is 2mm thiner than the genuine.

The clips are as tight as can be. The top housing bottoms out on the lower half without the filter in it.

I think this is the issue with the filter seal not having positive te soon on it.
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FollowupID: 878929

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 14:28

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 14:28
Gday Mick,

I've also looked long and hard at this issue on my 200. I've also owned many Landcruisers over the years and they all would get a very fine film of dust past the filter.

We all need a snorkel to suck cleaner air.
And the element paper is good. Its the design of the square box that is the problem. The box is held down at just the 4 corners and its a huge box. It probably needs 8 clamps. But if the air filter is not regularly changed the resistance goes up and they start sucking around the seals.

I've monitored mine by marking the front of the filter, so when I remove the element I can look to see exactly where the dust might be getting past. In my case after 10,000k in the Kimberley last year, there was one corner where a whiff of dust was passing so I put a little extra bend into the clamp. Other than that, my 2012 has been good. But it never goes past 20,000k without an element change.

And as you've mentioned above, the element has to be put in the correct side up (not marked on the elements) otherwise one corner won't shut.

Some people put a smear of rubber grease around the underside of the seal.
AnswerID: 609118

Follow Up By: AlanTH - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 21:27

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 21:27
No way would any vehicle of mine go to 20K until an element change. No way at all. That's asking for trouble.
If you're travelling in dusty country that filter gets full quick, snorkel (RAI) or not and full filters pull air in anywhere they can get it.
A mate with his BMW bike found that when it struggled to even start..... chockers with dust, engine stuffed. Admitted he was a slow learner but still...
You should always take a spare with you and you can then knock lots of dust out of the element you take out.
That's one problem with oiled filters ... they have to be washed out before reuse. Stick to paper as it's easier.
AlanTH.
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FollowupID: 878913

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 21:57

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 21:57
Alan,
I do all my own servicing (since new on every vehicle I've owned) and check the air cleaner element every service. I replace it earlier if needed but most of the time I'll average 20,000k out of an element. I do a lot of outback kilometres and always had a snorkel.
The paper elements reach their peak efficiency once they have been in service for a little while, so replacing them too soon is of no benefit.
Cheers
Phil
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FollowupID: 878914

Reply By: Tony F8 - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 16:24

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 16:24

This might be of help in selecting a filter, and I'll definately be sticking with the paper element type.
AnswerID: 609125

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 18:33

Friday, Mar 03, 2017 at 18:33
Tony, can't agree more. Guess that is why all heavy earth moving equipment and trucks use paper filters.

Just blow them out and have them washed at certain intervals. Most have pre-filters and see more dust in a week than the average 4x4 sees in a lifetime.

Trouble is, Toyota have installed an inferior filter box and unless that is addressed the problem will remain no matter what the filter does.
4
FollowupID: 878906

Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 16:40

Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 16:40
I believe they have an inferior filter box as well, but good luck trying to get a company like Toyota to admit it !!
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FollowupID: 878967

Reply By: Member - Roachie - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 13:26

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 13:26
When I bought my Chev Silverado 2 years ago, the previous owner had removed the OE filter system (similar type to the 200 series) and installed a Banks Cold Air Ram type. These are a USA brand and utilise an oiled pod filter (similar to, but much larger than the rice burners use in their cars)..

I've only serviced the filter once (using a K&N kit sourced locally) and I'm very pleased with the lack of dust on the engine-side, the fact that it hasn't had any ill effects on the MAF sensor (but it's extremely important to follow the servicing instructions and NOT over-oil the filter), as well as the additional surface area of the filter....allowing more air into the engine.

Roachie
AnswerID: 609133

Reply By: safaris - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 15:12

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 15:12
G'day I don't recall where I saw it but I have seen an aftermarket air box similar to the Toyota one (same filter element) but made out of aluminium with a window in the top of it. I think it was from a performance shop that did bigger intercoolers etc so someone has gone to a lot of effort and expense. I think some people just get a box that is out of alignment somehow, seems all the discussions are on how it gets around the sides of the filter not through it. Cheers Rob
AnswerID: 609136

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 19:22

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 19:22
This would be what you're thinking of, Rob.



Bob
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Reply By: mick78 - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 20:17

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 20:17
Hello Bob Y,

I wonder who makes this unit? Appears to be for the ute version v8 judging by its size.

Cheers
AnswerID: 609137

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 22:10

Saturday, Mar 04, 2017 at 22:10
Not sure, Mick? Will see if I can find out, let you know tomorrow. Think it is for the 79 models.

Bob

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 14:11

Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 14:11
Mick,

It appears Matt Krautz is the bloke to contact. Mobile 0431 685 586

Don't know where he is, or what state, but judging by that photo he is a craftsman!

Good luck with it,
Bob

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Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 11:27

Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 11:27
Lts address a couple of issues.
#1 time after time, lab test after lab test foam filters of all types oiled or not have shown to be very poor compared to good paper or fabric filters ..... they have neither the air flow, the capacity to hold quantity of dust or the ability to filter fine dust that a good paper or fabric filter has .... not even close. ...... sorry end story.

#2 ALL filters have a limited filtration bassed on particle size ....... there are very few air filters available for any purpose from any source that will hold back high persentage of particles of 2 microns.

Realy fine dust like the 2 micron stuff is less of a problem than the coarser dust and the coarser the worse it is for engines.

SO lets bypass the red herrings.

It seems that this filter system is letting dust past the seal ....... this should be easily identified by where the dust is observed
If a seal is working properly , there should be no sign of dust on the clean side of the seal its self or on the clean side of the air box near the seal.

#3 ..... don't tar all aftermarket filters with the same brush ...... the OEM's have to buy their filters somewhere, probably from a company like Sakura ..... so there will be a filter manufacturer that makes a filter as good if not better than the OEM.

If you are looking for after market filters go to a diesel spares shop and look at Donaldson, Fleetguard and Sakura ...... you may find one of those will have a better than OEM filter ... perhaps with a meatier seal ...... it will be worth a look. .... that is before you look at the ultra premium paper and fabric filter manufacturers that you probably never heard of.

#4 fitting aftermarket filter systems has always been an option ...... heavy earth moving, trucking and dusty area people have been fitting aftermarket high capacity filter systems for decades.
Donaldson made their name supplying aftermarket filters ..... this type of filter has a cyclonic prefilter and a high capacity high efficiency paper filter ...... these my not look pretty but they work very well.

cheers
AnswerID: 609167

Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 16:36

Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 16:36
Gotta agree with you there Bantam.
I currently run a Donaldson filter on the 200 series, but haven't done enough dirt roads to conclude anything about the seal yet ?
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FollowupID: 878965

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 12, 2017 at 00:25

Sunday, Mar 12, 2017 at 00:25
I'd be interested to hear your in hand visual impression of the donaldson filter V the factory item
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FollowupID: 879195

Reply By: ian.g - Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 17:56

Sunday, Mar 05, 2017 at 17:56
Pretty sure Radius Fabrication in Capalaba Brisbane make a Alloy Air Box for these, they can be contacted on 0431140098, their work is very good. Think they use the original element also. Not associated with them just offering some information.
Cheers Ian
AnswerID: 609181

Reply By: mick78 - Wednesday, Mar 08, 2017 at 11:57

Wednesday, Mar 08, 2017 at 11:57
Hello guys,

Thanks for the replys, do any of you guys have this issue with your 200 series? If so what can be done to fix it?

The dealer has shown classified photos of an air box, which Are from Toyota. The photos are worse than my aur box and continue saying it is perfectly normal and acceptable....

AnswerID: 609252

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Mar 12, 2017 at 00:27

Sunday, Mar 12, 2017 at 00:27
it may be "acceptable" to them ........ customers would probably be of a different opinion
1
FollowupID: 879196

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Mar 18, 2017 at 17:15

Saturday, Mar 18, 2017 at 17:15
Mick,

Just noticed on Facebook that AAA Exhaust & Fabrication have developed a filter box to stop the problem you're having. Takes the standard 200 series filter element.

Bob

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AnswerID: 609493

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Saturday, Mar 18, 2017 at 20:42

Saturday, Mar 18, 2017 at 20:42
Bob, just to add to your post. I have used AAA exhausts when they were a much small business and they were always good.
1
FollowupID: 879354

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