Common Rail Diesels, !

Submitted: Saturday, Sep 23, 2017 at 21:22
ThreadID: 135628 Views:3533 Replies:9 FollowUps:7
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After having old school diesels for years with utes, earthmoving gear, trucks etc, i have been amazed at what difference common rail makes in regard to power.
My old workhorse landrover defender 130 has finally gone into hospital with a chronic complaint!..lol. Thinking I might have to change to a more Hwy cruising vehicle to take the pressure off the old landy ,as things have changed work wise, a late model 4x2Mitsubishi Triton all dressed up with 16'alloys Arb bar, driving lights, got my attention. Apart from a rough as guts ride this thing has amazed me at what power can be extracted from a 2.5L engine. I have been like others and have wailed How long will it last?, and the list of mates ,uncles and all the Jo Blows that have blown up is seemingly endless . At a cruising speed of 110ks this motor sits on about 2100 rpms and has taken every hill I have thrown at it with ease, so my opinion has changed somewhat as to how the longlivety of these smaller motors go. I think with the right servicing and control with the right boot Theres no reason why they should not give a run. Just a little plug for the Mitsibishi, making the ground clearance the same on the 4x2 as the 4x4 was a smart idea makes a big difference over rough ground.

Cheers Axle.



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Reply By: RMD - Saturday, Sep 23, 2017 at 22:34

Saturday, Sep 23, 2017 at 22:34
G'day Axle.
I am surprised at you suddenly discovering this newer technology. It has been around for a long time now. If you burn fuel more completely you will get better economy and power for same fuel input.
A 2.5 litre diesel will put out more power if you simply raise the injection pressure and turbo boost pressure. Want more? then raise those two even more. To keep ahead of the competition just do it again.
It sure impresses the average person until the engine has a short life.

The injection timing is easily varied and together with the common rail and variable vane turbo most engines perform well. The less stressed last longer. Generally they burn far cleaner than earlier diesels and so don't have as much crap in the oil at the same KM. That probably helps with life expectancy. Over fuelling and excessive heat in combustion chambers and exhaust is controlled well and so the engine should not have a melt down as early ones may do under load.

There are many plusses for CRD.

I often am amused at the ones who chip or remap their ECU and get vast increases in torque and more power too. The engine life has to be shortened somewhat but most of those people seem to trade it in after they get tired of the acceleration and need even more.

The rough ride of the Triton may be the very poor shocks fitted from new.

The longlivety, may be longevity maybe!
AnswerID: 613920

Follow Up By: qldcamper - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 06:38

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 06:38
Or they squeel lika a stuck pig when they melt a piston and the dealer refuses warrenty.
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FollowupID: 884471

Reply By: Batt's - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 12:21

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 12:21
Yes the modern day diesels have come a long way I could easily replace my old 4.2ltr 6cyl for most any 4cyl donk and get an instant improvement in most areas being econ, reduced weight, power, torque and cheaper to register in QLD. But if keeping the motor for the long term unfortunately that may come at a cost where there are some other areas it may let me down unless I do some illegal mods to help increase it's life expectancy. Also fitting a catch can to stop oil mist entering the turbo, intercooler, engine and second fuel filter with water trap seems to be another added expense the buyer has to put out for to protect the sensitive fuel system components these items should already be in place for the sake of reliability of the motor. Except for the fact air pollution gear etc is hindering these engines which can be fixed there's really is no reason I believe these modern day diesel engines should be able to out last an old dinosaur like mine which if looked after they should be good for 1,000,000 plus km.
AnswerID: 613928

Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 13:39

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 13:39
I've thought about it. I reckon spending 1 million kilometres in a slow under powered thirsty chug-a-lug isn't that appealing. Each to their own.
:-)
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FollowupID: 884478

Reply By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 13:30

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 13:30
My crd is coming up to 10 years old and almost 300k on the clock. It's not the engine that is bugging me, I've got a shudder in the auto, a whine in the ac compressor and I'm thinking the alternator is bound to cark it at any time...or maybe the power steering or water pump? The engine seems fine, I'm worried about everything else. ??
AnswerID: 613931

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 16:40

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 16:40
Personally I'm a bit more worried about the life expectancy of the nut behind the wheel of my forthcoming Hilux to get too concerned about when/if the Hilux carks it.

Strange creaking knocking noises, the air intake seemingly getting more and more unable to keep up with demand, and don't get me started about the fuel processing or the waste management systems.

(:-((

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 884481

Reply By: swampy - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 13:30

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 13:30
HI
Remember late model inlet manifolds need cleaning at least every 100,oookm
Egr needs to be rectified hint hint
Injectors need checking every 100,000km
They wear out bad economy and power Eg Toyota have changed design every 2nd year
Pumps need checking every 200,000km

The 2.5ltr engines do not produce the torque of the 3.0ltr if available in the same model .ITS JUST BULLSH*T MARKETING
Look at the peak figures from the makers they say . Should be looking at the shape of the curve . The 3.0ltrs pickup torque way earlier .
AnswerID: 613932

Reply By: mike39 - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 17:24

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 17:24
Tell me which 2.5l. turbo diesel 4x4 will pull a 3.5t. trailer off the mark at barely above idle? (quoted tow capacity)
They all require copious revs/turbo boost and plenty of clutch slip. (unless in low range!)
Plus they all look and sound pretty much the same after around 250000kms......stuffed.
Our local council has adopted a sell/trade policy on their 4x4 fleet when they reach 60000km.
Mike

AnswerID: 613938

Follow Up By: axle - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 18:02

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 18:02
Hi Mike, You wont find a 4x4 with a small diesel that can idle off with 3.5 t

What you have to do is use low range and learn how to change up to hi range on the move, Done it for eighteen years with the landie!!

Its the cruising speed and the low revs they can do it at is the thing with the later crds in my opinion

Cheers Axle.
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FollowupID: 884487

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 20:29

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 20:29
Or buy an auto if you plan on towing 3.5t. Much easier to let the torque converter do "the slipping off the mark" than wearing out clutch plates and the driver developing a left leg that would make Tyrannosaurus Rex jealous.

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 884491

Follow Up By: Batt's - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 21:57

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 21:57
If I had to take off in low range then change I would know I definitely had the wrong tow vehicle and how frustrating would that be especially in a city.

Yrs ago I had a 2001 TD5 manual great motor for econ and easily sat on the speed limit on the open rd. I towed a pop top van which was 1,400kg fully loaded all up the GCM was 4,200kg and yes it was a bit hesitant taking off had to ride the clutch a little on some hills but never needed low range. I think it would be pushing the manual to tow any more without greatly reducing the clutches life. An auto box would be a better choice especially in hilly country. But as for towing 3.5t that's for the F-trucks etc so it's done safely within the vehicles limits.
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FollowupID: 884492

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 17:32

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 17:32
My "diesel life" started with Massey Ferguson tractors & Cat graders, with pilot motor engines, Axle, and has evolved through to a V8 Landcruiser & a Mazda CX-5 diesel.

These latter vehicles only similarity is that they are CRD. The CX-5 is 2.2L capacity, yet has a torque output only 30nm less than the Landcruiser while it consumes less than half the fuel that the 4.5L V8 does. This high torque output certainly suits highway cruising, maintaining excellent average speeds. Knocked over 1K kms in less than 12hrs, earlier this year.



One hears some horror stories about CRD engines, and the repair costs when needed, but I'm like Pop in the post above. More worried about the serviceability of the driver, than the vehicle. :-)

Bob
Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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AnswerID: 613939

Follow Up By: axle - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 17:49

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 17:49
Hi Bob, think i'm in the same club!..lol

Irrespect of what happens with this thing, the joy of cruising up hill and down dale with out dropping major revs is just great,

Cheers Axle.
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FollowupID: 884483

Reply By: Member - Roachie - Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 20:52

Sunday, Sep 24, 2017 at 20:52
The company I work for has several Toyota Hiace vans used for Aust Post duties as well as general courier work in country SA, north of Adelaide.

Three of the vans have had to have a new instrument cluster installed (I did two of the installs and have it down pat!!), because once the odometer reaches 999,999 it won't click back over to 000,000.

The van I drive every day has around 870,000 on the clock and has a 10,000klm service every third Thursday.

None of these vehicles has had a new engine fitted, nor have they had any major engine issues. My unit was playing up just before Xmas in 2015....blowing smoke and lack of power. Turned out to be carbon build-up in the inlet manifold, constricting the intake air to a very small volume. Damed stupid EGR valves!!!

As for my own truck.... a 5 tonne Chev Silverado....I have taken certain steps to ensure it breathes well and has super-clean oil and fuel. Hopefully the big 6.6 litre bent eight will last over a million klicks too.

Roachie
AnswerID: 613947

Reply By: Sigmund - Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 04:21

Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 04:21
Outback bulldust is fine enough to challenge the air filtration of a number of modern vehicles in particular the airbox to panel filter seal (where that's the design). That's the first thing to fix if you want longevity.

Ask around.

My Isuzu donk's been described as having the finest pedigree around. Its filter doesn't cope. Land Cruisers, Nissans....
AnswerID: 613996

Reply By: Theo D - Sunday, Oct 01, 2017 at 22:53

Sunday, Oct 01, 2017 at 22:53
Well I've gone the other direction axle. Although I didn't have a common rail, I did have a 3L Navara Dual cab (direct inject), and now I've sold that I've gone for a 105 Series Landcruiser with a non turbo naturally aspirated 1hz. The Navara was a great 4x4... no doubt about it. I brought it 4 years ago with 160km on the clock and put 120K it. Everything about it was rock solid, it towed well... good fuel economy... extremely strong driveline... never had to replace a thing on it until April this year when the injector pump went on it. That little fix cost me $4500. I treated that vehicle like a royal, service of all filters and eng oil every 5K, major service every 50K, always ran premium diesel in it and never ran it on below a quarter of a tank. I'd always been told that the 3L zd30 engine was prone to doing the injector pump but did everything under the sun to prevent it, but it still happened. The injector pump itself is a Bosch and that speaks for itself... everything Bosch I've ever owned has been a bit of a dud.

Not running down modern day vehicles like common rails, the mechanical aspect of it all works fine but its the electronic side of things attached to it which has no life... absolutely no life. Having spoke to many diesel mechanics around Cairns and Townsville you may as well look for another vehicle after 12/15yrs. Once something goes a miss, there's a chance the ball will keep rolling in that direction. Common rails being the most susceptible.

I've copped some flack from mates for going back in time a little to a 2006 105 Series, but theres no way I think I'll part with it. Its one of the last 1hz in production and they are bomb proof. They chew a bit more fuel (around 15L per 100K), and they are a bit slow off the line (if you stick your foot into it they'll go like any other car, but fuel economy will rise something stupid) - but at the end of the day its reliability plus.

Our last work vehicle to be given back was a 2012 4x4 Triton and yes it was rough as a cats tongue but it had plenty going for it. I wouldnt run out and buy one tomorrow but I'd buy one over a 3L Hilux of the same era, for sure. Good clearance, towed well and had plenty of power down low for when you needed it. Everything a 3L Hilux doesnt have.
AnswerID: 614106

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