Redarc bcdc1240D
Submitted: Monday, Sep 25, 2017 at 14:36
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Member -Flipper
Hi Just considering increasing my solar/battery system in our van.
We have at present 300w solar on the roof, 100ah lithium battery and a 25ah solar reg and 35ah charger.
Our intention is to increase the solar to 600 w and the battery to a 200ah lithium.
To do this we intend to change to a redarc bcdc 1240D.which acts as both reg and charger.
My queries are: Has anyone used the abovementioned reg .
Will we have enough solar/ battery for extended outback camping in one spot for say 2 weeks ( assuming there enough sun around ). We carry a generator also
many thanks for any input
Reply By: Member -Flipper - Monday, Sep 25, 2017 at 19:53
Monday, Sep 25, 2017 at 19:53
Hi Mechpete and Gronk. Thanks for your reply. We bought this van with the 100ah and 300w solar but have found that on a trip up the WA coast and to
Darwin and down the centre that the solar would not put enough into the battery to last overnight having to put on the genie or move on the next day. The weather was almost always sunny, about 32 /34 degrees so the fridge wasn't working THAT hard.
We run all led's, use the tv only at night ( sparingly) but have a waeco 190 Lr compressor fridge which I suspect is the culprit.
our previous van had similar except for a 3 way fridge.
I have always been a fan of " more is better" and don't like the thought of running out of power, hence the move to the proposed 600 and 200ah system.
Regards
AnswerID:
613969
Reply By: Member - J&A&KK - Monday, Sep 25, 2017 at 21:19
Monday, Sep 25, 2017 at 21:19
Flipper
I have just been through a similar excercise. For what it's worth here is my two bobs worth.
The Redarc BCDC1240d is a good unit. Beware input voltage is limited to 32VDC so your solar panels will need to be wired in parallel.
Your 190 Waeco fridge probably pulls around 10A according to Waeco website ( don't know your model). Assuming a 50% run time you will lose 50Ahr overnight (10hrs) without any thing else running. Your 100Ahr lithium can supply about 80Ahr before getting close to the danger zone. So in theory you should be OK for an overnight stop. However when you think about it you only have 30Ahr or 3Amps per hour in reserve. A 20" LCD TV draws about that.
Your 300W solar panels should produce around 12Ahr in full sun. So 7-8 hrs full sun will add say 90Ahr - but your Waeco will draw another 70Ahr during the same time. If your panels are wired in series, and/or you park in shade, the panel output will be degraded. So in theory you should be OK to fully recharge your Lithium if the stars align for you.
The addition of the 100Ahr lithium will solve your power storage issue. But the fine line on the power supply side remains.
Rather than install a further 300W of solar on the van I would suggest you look at 200W of portable panels. So you can
camp in the shade but deploy the panels in the sun. When installing the Redarc just add another Anderson plug, that's easily accessible on the outside of the van, as another input to the solar side of the Redarc.
Cheers
John
AnswerID:
613973
Follow Up By: Member -Flipper - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 00:31
Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 00:31
Hi
John
Thank you for reply to my queries.
I will be installing my panels in parallel as you suggest.
Didn't know how many Ahrs the fridge would draw, have seen some saying 6 - 7 but I feel your figure may be more accurate. I will
check the model and look on the waeco site.
I knew the extra 100 amp battery would improve things along with the solar on the roof and I understand that if I'm in the shade my input will be less. I failed to mention that I also carry 150 w portable solar "just in case" so all in all we should be OK ? The van has the extra Anderson plug for portable solar.
Many thanks for your detailed help. Much appreciated. Richard
FollowupID:
884525
Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:52
Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:52
Hi Flipper (Richard)
FWIW I agree 100% with J&A&KK.
I have similar fridge power needs as yourself. A 130 litre compressor fridge in the van and a 55 litre car fridge running as a minus 12 freezer, powered off the van when camped. Daily demand (two fridges, coffee machine, room hezter when it's cold, etc) is about 90 amp-hours.
I have 360 Ah of lithium, 200 watts of solar on the roof of the van, but only half of that is workjjng ATM, plus 240 watts of portable. My 340 watts of working solar easily keeps up with that in sunny conditions. Y
Your proposed 200Ah of lithium is equivalent to nearly 400 Ah of AGM in terms of useability. Based on my experience with my system, I have no doubt you will have enough battery capacity. Add to that your present roof top solar and
John's recommended portable solar, and I think your system will be more than adequate.
Cheers
FollowupID:
884536
Follow Up By: Gronk - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 19:02
Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 19:02
When people say 200A/H of Lithium is equivalent to 400 A/H of AGM's, they neglect to say that although you can use the extra capacity of the Lithium, it will take twice as long to recharge . Although the twice the capacity doesn't quite stack up as an AGM is usually only taken down to 50% and the Lithium can go to approx 20 or 30%, so not quite the double capacity often talked about.
FollowupID:
884541
Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 22:17
Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 22:17
I read that Lithium is faster and more efficient at charging it takes less time to charge therefore using less power per each full charge. AGM's takes longer to charge especially to charge the last 20% of the battery therefore taking more time, using more power from your supply. There are sites that will explain all the tech side if your interested.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:15
Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:15
.
Batt's, I don't think you have got that quite right.
Lithium batteries can be charged "faster" only because they will happily accept a higher rate of charge than AGM's. But that will only apply if you have a charging source that is capable of supplying the higher charge rate.
Each battery type will require replacing the same amount of energy in charging as was taken out in consumption. Electrical energy is rather like bucketfulls of Joules or Ampere-hours or jelly-beans. Whatever you take out you must put back. Its just that you can use a bigger bucket with Lithium.
Just don't use a metal bucket though! lol
As for your "last 20%" comment, the charge rate diminishes as the voltage difference between the battery and the charger tapers off, and applies to both lithium and AGM. This only occurs with a simple 'constant-voltage' charge source and does not apply if an appropriate multi-stage charger is used.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 17:24
Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 17:24
I only went off what I read after looking at a couple of sites and the info they provided in the comparison between the 2 if their wrong about the results then maybe they should be removed so others are not mislead.
FollowupID:
884564
Reply By: duck - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 08:24
Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 08:24
Mine is a little more complicated than some as I did run 2 x bcdc charges 1 for 12volt & 1 for 24 volt but be wary I originally did wirer
mine using the relay to change from vehicle charge to solar & use it as the regulator but the relay itself FAILED so many times & also so did 1 of the bcdc charges (24v) redarc supplied several relays & 24v charges in the end I did away with the relay & changed back to a solenoid charger for the 24V as I was sick of the problems & have not had an issue since (touch wood)
Redarc were great help even had there NSW rep Wayne come an
check, photo etc. & in the end they gave me a package to make up for the problems I had
I have no issues with redarc they were helpful & never tried to pass on the problem & tried so hard to solve the issues
AnswerID:
613978
Reply By: swampy - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 16:24
Tuesday, Sep 26, 2017 at 16:24
hi
Fridge demand depends on weather
Bigger fridges seem to need around
600 ++++ watts of solar
3x120ah = 360ahtotal usable =180 ah for the fridge
Search this site and others and its what u will find
240v AC charger 35amp unit and gene to run it
need to transmit at least 40amp dc to dc
direct connect to altenator 35mmsq cable give good amperage at high volts above 14.oo. Below 14.oo volts slows recharge a lot
dc2dc charger preferably 40amp min
160 watt produces around 38ah
200watt produces around 48 ah
Using PSH peaksun hrs 5.5hrs per day at 100%
less 20% due to panel positioning , wiring ,controller etc
light outside the psh is unreliable this includes mppt
AnswerID:
613988
Follow Up By: Member -Flipper - Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 12:54
Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 12:54
Hi Swampy. We sure found out about the weather having an effect on the fridge last year on our trip to
Darwin hence the decision to improve the battery to 200Ah lithium. Now keep the fridge on the lowest number setting ie #1 as opposed to #4.
The 1240 Redarc charger is a 40 amp dc/dc unit and the cabling will be increased as
well.
thanks for your help.
Regards
FollowupID:
884557
Reply By: Member -Flipper - Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:04
Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:04
Thanks to all for your help and advice.
Going with what I am reading I will probably do this:
Increase the solar by one 150w panel,( gives me 450w ) install 200Ah lithium , increase reg to the redarc 1240D (40amp ), replace all the wiring which according to an auto electrician is too thin.
We will still carry our 150w portable panels and generator
Hopefully this will solve my power problems. Any further comments??
AnswerID:
614002
Reply By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 17:44
Wednesday, Sep 27, 2017 at 17:44
What you need depends on your usage, from personal experience running a 40 ltr waeco and an 80ltr waeco as
well as the usual lights pumps etc 450W of solar and 200Ah of lithium does the job providing the sun shines. I now generally work on 50% of the solar capacity as the max standard output.
If the sun don't shine then 5A from the fuel cell operated 24 hours a day just keeps up.
As for the Redarc personally I wouldn't go that path as the charge voltage is way to high. I'm currently charging my Lithiums to around 13.8V, this recharges them to a 100% and there is no need to charge them any higher, I could probably go down to 13.2V-13.5V and still have no issues. General consensus these days is less is better. I would opt for a charger that lets you adjust the charge voltage, current level at which to stop charging and no float stage as it is not needed with Lithiums. Also with at least .1 resolution etc.
AnswerID:
614008
Follow Up By: Member -Flipper - Thursday, Sep 28, 2017 at 13:56
Thursday, Sep 28, 2017 at 13:56
Hi HKB Electronics
May I ask "other than redarc" reg what would you suggest. I chose them because they have a 40 amp reg including solar MPPT and because of their perceived quality and Aussie made. As I understand I require 40 amps because of the proposed 600w of solar and 200Ah of lithium. I may say that electronics is out of my league and know enough to be dangerous as they say. I am therefore open to advice from people who know their stuff as it appears you do.
I would, therefore, ask what brand/type would you suggest? I have not made a final choice yet but of course want to make the correct one. As they say, do it once, do it right.
Regards
FollowupID:
884589
Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Thursday, Sep 28, 2017 at 16:25
Thursday, Sep 28, 2017 at 16:25
I'm currently using an Enerdrive unit myself, works
well when working as a DCDC charger off the car, though I have found the solar MPPT function doesn't give any real benefit over my PWM solar controller. Might be different if I was running the solar panels in series but for redundancy purposes I'm, running them in parallel so that I can use the previously installed PWM controller if necessary.
When I looked around a few months back it was the only one that supported users selectable parameters at a reasonable price. Like the Redarc I would not use the default Lithium profile of this charger either if your not going to be using their battery units and then I probably still wouldn't advise it.
This charger does allow you to set the maximum charge voltage, charge current, absorption time, and turn off current level, maximum charge time etc. You can also set the float voltage but this is not used for Lithium's.
Can't say their most ethical company I have dealt with, like many companies these days they tend to push their own products and run other companies products down so some of the
information regarding suitability of other brands to charge Lithiums I would disregard if your talking to them. I have found their support people to be a mixed bag, one gave questionable advice, another I found to be very knowledgeable.
FollowupID:
884592
Follow Up By: Malcom M - Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 06:34
Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 06:34
Redarc BCDC20D charges LI at 14.6V
14.6 / 4 = 3.65v per cell which is a fairly standard cut off voltage for LI.
Certainly ok with my Winstons.
Don't give up on the Redarc until you have learnt a lot more about Li and what parts you are putting in your system if you go that way.
Its not just a charger driving a battery.
Your original question was regarding the BCDC1240D in a lead acid environment and not a Li discussion as such its perfect.
FollowupID:
884602
Follow Up By: Member -Flipper - Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 10:09
Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 10:09
Hi
Malcolm M
Am I to assume that you have a redarc 1240D charging Winston batteries? If so you seem happy with that system.
I will ask the question re the Li battery's capability to accept this charger of course when I purchase the new 200Ah lithium.
Your input and advice is noted and appreciated. Thank you
Malcolm.
I think if you read my original post you will see I speak of what I have at present ( 100Ah lithium ) and what I propose ie 200Ah lithium, there is no mention of lead acid batteries !!!!
Regards
FollowupID:
884604
Follow Up By: Malcom M - Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:01
Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:01
Actually I have the 1225D as the 40 didn't exist when I bought it.
I don't know what your knowledge level is but there is a lot more to Li than just buying a charger and plugging it in. You have to have a firm understanding of over and under charging which destroys the cells real quick. Battery monitoring systems and more...
FollowupID:
884606
Follow Up By: Member -Flipper - Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 16:51
Friday, Sep 29, 2017 at 16:51
Malcom
I have talked with the importer of your batteries and discussed with him the redarc 1240D being used with his battery. He checked out the redarc site and said everything was OK.
I will, before purchasing, meet and have a more in depth chat, then confirm again with redarc and discuss further with the auto electrician who will install the charger. I'm sure this will allay any doubts.
The winstons certainly come up OK and I have decided to go with them, plus they are local to me so I can talk to a tech if necessary.
Thanks for the info.
FollowupID:
884618
Follow Up By: Malcom M - Saturday, Sep 30, 2017 at 08:12
Saturday, Sep 30, 2017 at 08:12
Hi Flipper
You'll get a much better Winston price at this guy in QLD
http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatural/ViewCat.asp?CL1=18&CL2=64&CL3=NA.
Plus he actually answers emails unlike other suppliers in WA.
Another great thing about the 1225D or 1240D is that they operate from an input voltage under 12v.
Lots of others (Ctek for one) do not operate from a standing battery, needs the alternator running.
I run my camper from the Aux battery in my truck when the solar is unavailable. Input cutout voltages can prevent that.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member -Flipper - Friday, Oct 06, 2017 at 13:55
Friday, Oct 06, 2017 at 13:55
Hi Malcom
I would be interested to know what under / over protectors you use with your system if you would be so kind as to let me know.
I have spoken to the Ev bloke in WA and he has an under voltage protector but not an over voltage protector. I have seen on the Winston site that they do a bms for $220, maybe that would be the way to go ?
I will look up the backshed again and give them a call.
Have made up my mind to put a 300Ah in which should give me plenty of power. I put one 150w solar on the roof 2 days ago and that gives me 450 watts, which today recharged my battery from -18.7amps to full in 2 1/2 hours. I have only the fridge going..just to try it out..as I'm still at
home.
Your
views would be appreciated. Tried to find you so I could PM you but you didn't show up.
Regards
FollowupID:
884776
Follow Up By: Malcom M - Friday, Oct 06, 2017 at 14:10
Friday, Oct 06, 2017 at 14:10
Hi Flipper
Have a look at this -
Zeva
Doesn't do a cell balance but there's a lot of arguments about needing that anyway.
They also do a more expensive system that does have built in cell balancing.
EV Power in WA sell cell balance modules
EV Power
FollowupID:
884777