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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 07:33

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 07:33
Hi Michael

I wonder how many times it is the Good Samaritan that ends up in trouble.

I wonder if the guy in the Prado offered to pay for the damage caused to the Nissan?


Cheers


Stephen
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AnswerID: 615735

Follow Up By: OBJ - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 07:48

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 07:48
Don't hold your breath. Three damaged snatch straps without a thought of recompense has stopped my Good Samaritan days unless they have their own.
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FollowupID: 886774

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 08:25

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 08:25
Hi OBJ

Yes it does wear very thin, and if the person in need of help is unprepared, then let him pay for a professional recovery that will cost hundreds of dollars.



Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: Mikee5 - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:53

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:53
I am getting grumpy too, now it goes like this:
Bogged guy to me 'Can you help?'
Me 'Sure get out your snatch strap'
Him 'I don't have one'
Me 'I have one you can buy for $100, then we can use it'
Usually they go away.
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FollowupID: 886776

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 13:52

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 13:52
Yes I agree.

A smart friend of mine said he takes a $1000 deposit on anything loaned even cheap things. The borrower gets the $1000 back when the item is returned as was. Most people think he is rude and don't borrow stuff.

A lot of recovery gear has a limited life. Especially Snatch straps winch ropes, and Maxtrax. I do the same as you to strangers. You can hire it for the price of a new set. Most of my recovery gear has been used and broken by helping others

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FollowupID: 886780

Follow Up By: Michael 1954 - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 16:59

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 16:59
I wouldnt bet on it.
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FollowupID: 886785

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 18:34

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 18:34
The Nissan driver is not without fault here
Nobody asked him to treat his own vehicle like he did which was asking for trouble

Damaging recovery gear etc is a bit different to mistreating your own vehicle
I note he had a P plate on so may not have realised he was doing it .

A shame to see just the same as his intentions were good
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FollowupID: 886788

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 18:45

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 18:45
.
Yes Alby, he was young and probably inexperienced.
Most likely loved his Nissan 4WD 'truck'.
And probably very proud that he can provide assistance to a fellow traveller.
So it is very sad that it went pear-shaped and has damaged his vehicle.
Let's hope that the damage is not too expensive for someone who is almost certainly on a very limited budget.

And let none of us forget that we were once young and inexperienced with mistakes that we would rather not admit to.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 886789

Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:16

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:16
Gave you a thanks Alan but thought I would follow it up with a well said.
Dave.
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FollowupID: 886812

Reply By: Mikee5 - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:49

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:49
A constant stream of fools who will not lower their tyres to a suitable pressure. 16 to 18 or lower if needed. On these you tube clips watch those who do lower their tyres simply drive around the idiots. Surely they must be asking themselves - 'how are they doing it so easily yet I can't move?' I have been going to Fraser since I had 7.50 x 16 Road Track Major cross ply tyres with tubes on an FJ40 - and am stunned at the never ending stupidity.
AnswerID: 615737

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:19

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:19
Mike, They don't lower their tyre pressures because they don't have a compressor. And if they did lower them, they would be over to you like a flash to use your compressor! Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

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FollowupID: 886777

Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 11:04

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 11:04
Michael
People will spend tens and tens of thousands on a car and caravan or camper, some more on the holiday and won't splash a couple of hundred bucks on a compressor.
Probably less than a night at the pub for dinner for the family for some.
Their argument would no doubt be "oh I only need it once or twice a year so it's not worth it".
First two things I bought after I got my first 4WD in 2009 were a snatch strap and compressor. Snatch strap finally used for the first time a few months ago helping someone who had a strap but mine was handier (and it's not that I haven't been places it might have been needed) and the compressor sure has had a work out.
People are funny.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 886778

Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 16:21

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 16:21
It’s very easy to sit here & call everybody that has problem a fool, some people have very poor advice by armchair experts when they first start out, it takes a while to sort the wheat from the chaff!

They could have just dumped the trailer & driven out & then winched or skull dragged the trailer out. I have done that before when I have been stuck with a camper trailer behind.

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FollowupID: 886784

Follow Up By: Michael 1954 - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 17:10

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 17:10
rocco2010..........I totaly agree with you.


I only have a compressor whis i do use only to tyre pressure checks on the van and the D Max.Usually the next day when tyres are cold before continuing on.
I have no desire to any off road/sand/beach driving.

I assume its quite interesting to watch what goes on and even i know that to drive on sand you have to lower tyre pressures.(Guess you could call it day time entertainment)Similar to caravan parks when some one comes into the park and reverses van into a spot people seem to came from every where to either watch or help.
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FollowupID: 886786

Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:24

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:24
.
P-plate on the Nissan seems appropriate. lol

I have towed a couple across that stretch with no trouble to my Troopy.

With one car plus trailer, I asked "What pressure do you have in your tires?" He replied with a blank look "Oh, the usual". Yep, you guessed it, road pressure. Took a lot of convincing to get him to lower the pressure before I was prepared to tow him. Left him to his own resources at the Island end.

But I am not totally without fault........ On one crossing I was having some unusual difficulty ploughing across that stretch until, once on the barge, I realised that I had forgotten to engage the front hubs! The watching deckhand expressed admiration that I made it at all.
Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 615738

Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:28

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:28
My first attempt at sand in my new DMax had me pulling my hair out. Bloody thing just seemed to lack power and no matter what I did the bloody thing struggled. Right up till I realized it was the bloody traction control. Turned it of and all was good. Nobody is perfect and not everyone is beyond needing educating.
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FollowupID: 886779

Follow Up By: William P - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 14:25

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 14:25
If you have to turn traction control off on a Dmax if you go in sand remind me not to get a Dmax. In most MODERN vehicles you should have to turn Stability Control off as that cuts power but not traction control as power makes it work even better and in most MODERN systems traction control does not cut power and indeed in many you cannot even turn traction control off.

So Ivan did you actually mean stability control rather than traction control - different systems with different approaches - stability control cuts power, traction control in most vehicles does not.
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FollowupID: 886781

Follow Up By: dirvine - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 15:43

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 15:43
Given the way the other vehicle roared by near the end, clearly something was wrong. I will NEVER tow or snatch anybody for that length of sand. They needed to 1, lower tyre pressures even more, 2, revers back and start again with more momentum if possible, and /or 3 get some maxtrax so they could get up on top of the sand. That was mechanical damage waiting to happen.
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FollowupID: 886783

Follow Up By: Michael 1954 - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 17:13

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 17:13
May be they dont watch All for Adventure to learn how Jase and Simon do it
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FollowupID: 886787

Follow Up By: Hoyks - Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 20:20

Thursday, Dec 28, 2017 at 20:20
Nope, I'm with Ivan.
Traction Control is off on sand.... its just done with the DSC button if you are being a pedant.

On the BT50 Dynamic Stability Control controls Engine TC, Brake TC, yaw correction and Trailer Sway Assist. DSC also provides "an enhanced traction control function" by reducing engine torque and braking the spinning wheels.
Pushing the button once deactivates the torque limiting function, push and hold deactivates Engine TC, Brake TC and Trailer Sway Assist (doesn't matter as I don't tow).
Traction Control applies braking force to any wheel it senses is spinning too fast. On sand, particularly where it is rutted, the traction control is braking the wheels across the axle as well as front to rear and ABS module is chattering away as well as reducing torque and working hard at slowing you down.

I tried with Engine TC off and it was OK, but ABS module chattering away at random got a bit annoying after a while and I wondered how quickly it would chew out my brake linings. Disabling the lot and it was much easier to drive.

Turn it all off and I can hoon along, floating across the sand at a blistering 20-30km/h. I was on Fraiser for a week, so got to try out all modes but found converting the vehicle into a old school ute with open diffs front and rear worked the best.

I didn't need towing once either, but I'm packin' a tyre gauge and I'm not afraid to use it! ;-)
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FollowupID: 886793

Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 06:21

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 06:21
Every car is different.Most of them you cant turn traction control off, there are a few exceptions. Every one of them you can turn stability control off. Its the stability control, either called DSC or ESC, whatever it is for that car, that kills sand ability.
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FollowupID: 886800

Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 07:43

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 07:43
On the DMax when selecting low range 4x4, ESC is turned off leaving traction control on but without cutting engine power to the drive wheels. Pressing & holding the ESC button will then also turn traction control off.
In high range 4x4 pressing & holding the ESC button will turn both ESC & ETC off.
Cheers,
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FollowupID: 886803

Follow Up By: Jackolux - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 08:40

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 08:40
The Dmax TC is not very good , especially when a wheel or 2 are lifted off the ground , it just gives up and the wheels with no traction just spin like a open Diff .

When on tracks in the Highcountry I just turn it all of and use my eLockers .
I haven't really done any sand driving in my Dmax yet .
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FollowupID: 886807

Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 08:50

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 08:50
Ive noticed that on trips with dmax's in the group, they seem to get stuck easier. I suppose they can't have zero weaknesses, there has to be something they dont do as well. A set of lockers fixes that but doesn't it?
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FollowupID: 886808

Follow Up By: Jackolux - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:04

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:04
That's why I have Lockers , like I said TC is not very good and yeah the Dmax has plenty of weaknesses , easily busted bloody CV's is one of em .
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FollowupID: 886810

Follow Up By: William P - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:10

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:10
As I indicated above, on modern systems TC does not retard the engine or progress in sand - I can only assume the Dmax system is old technology that does not work well if it cuts power on TC - not sure why it needs to do that - more power spins the wheel without traction faster activating TC sooner - to be cutting power is nonsense.

If the Dmax cannot manage TC very well then it makes one wonder what else it does poorly.
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FollowupID: 886811

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:45

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 09:45
Looks to me like the handbrake is pulled up on the Jayco. That wouldn't help!
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FollowupID: 886815

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:18

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:18
.
Phil, your'e right about the handbrake. Look at the photo below, taken with my 'long lens'. lol

As well as that, after reading all the issues above about "traction control' and "stability control" and all, the poor Prado driver probably has no idea which button to press. All I need to do in my Troopy is to remember to engage the front hubs. If the sand is not too deep I only engage one hub.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 886818

Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:30

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:30
William P,
" I can only assume the Dmax system is old technology that does not work well if it cuts power on TC"
On follow up No 7 above I explained that the TC on the DMax does not retard engine power. I'm not sure how old the technology is but you can use 4x4 H & Low with TC on with no engine retard.
Sure e lockers will get you further if you have them.
Cheers,
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FollowupID: 886822

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:34

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:34
I am not so sure the handbrake is on, I can't see the stay arm that extends down to the ratchet section to hold it on

@ Alan, only engaging one hub......is that for superior traction, bragging rights around the fire or just lazy and can't be bothered walking around the other side of the vehicle to engage the other one????
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FollowupID: 886823

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:43

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:43
.
Alby, maybe the arm is rusted into the raised position. lol

On the hub issue, It seems to me to be a waste to engage two hubs unless the sand demands it. Don't want to wear them out. Besides, I engage the driver's-side hub and it is up to the navigator to engage her's if she so chooses. However, if Roz is driving I engage both of course as a gentlemany act.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 886824

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 13:27

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 13:27
Handbrake definitely on - its a car style handbrake - same as I have on both my Tvan and Caravan.
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FollowupID: 886827

Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:26

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:26
.
I notice that further into the video, as the Prado is about to receive a tow from the second 'saviour', that the driver appears to be attending to the tyre of the Jayco.
Maybe two drivers received instruction re tyre pressures that day.
Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 615769

Follow Up By: William P - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 13:26

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 13:26
Allan my initial followup addressed Ivan's comment "Bloody thing just seemed to lack power and no matter what I did the bloody thing struggled. Right up till I realized it was the bloody traction control. Turned it of and all was good."

The implication being that Ivan believes TC cuts power - I actually think he had Stability control on and what he did was switch it off and all came good.

I dont know Dmaxs and can only go on what Ivan described.If what he said was true (which you have clarified is not) then I would be concerned about the TC system in a Dmax.

Cheers

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FollowupID: 886826

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 13:34

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 13:34
.
William, I think you have placed your Followup in the wrong place. Too many Allan's on here. lol

Besides, all I know about Traction Control is that on my Troopy it is directly under the accelerator pedal.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 886828

Follow Up By: William P - Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 15:58

Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 15:58
Yes - I started in the other post - dont know how I ended up here - was addressing the other Allan, who inturn thought I was addressing him when I was addressing Ivan - lol.

This unique homemade forum format does have its issues but that is another topic.
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FollowupID: 886862

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 07:08

Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 07:08
Hi Allan

Thanks for showing that important missing piece to the tangled web.

It goes to show that the driver of the Prado had..NFI on how to drive in soft sand.

High tyre pressures, extreme weight on the roof and many other points that we are not aware of.......and no MaxTrax.

My advise to anyone in a situation like this is to leave them where they are, let them call for professional help, as they are not prepared to help themselves.

I personally have not driven that area on soft sand, but if it was as bad as it looked, I personally would be running around 12 psi for starters in the car and around 10 psi on the camper. If I was still having problems, would then go down around 2 psi until I could get traction.

I still feel very sorry for the Nissan driver that thought he was doing the right thing, helping a driver that should have never been on the beach who had NFI about soft sand driving.


Hapy New Year



Cheers



Stephen
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FollowupID: 886882

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:57

Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:57
.
Hi Stephen, That stretch from the track to the barge at Inskip is almost always soft and chewed-up. I cross it at 18psi and stay at that on the Island, but the loaded Troopy goes particularly well on sand, even crossing it in 2WD once (accidentally) as I earlier remarked. But it could be very different if I was towing.

I must say, if you can get across that stretch to the barge, you should have no trouble on the Island. lol

And a Happy New Year to you and Fiona too.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 886909

Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 21:11

Friday, Dec 29, 2017 at 21:11
Hi all
Did any of you really watch the video?
When the other vehicle towed both out , I presume he had tyre pressures down , as the others that went past would have.
When he hooked up to the Prado, the Prado actually moves before the strap tightens, then tight for a moment and slack again.
He didn’t need the tow just lower tyre pressures.
Cheers , certainly gets discussion going!
AnswerID: 615778

Follow Up By: Zippo - Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 11:26

Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 11:26
Things I noted in the video were:
. the poor weight distribution on the combo needing to be towed - it had a real saggy bum with the coupling in or near the sand most of the time, and substantial "daylight" between the front wheel and wheel arch.
. the SUV that flashed past - presumably had the smarts to adopt a lower tyre pressure, although wouldn't want to be too low at that speed.
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FollowupID: 886855

Reply By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 20:31

Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 20:31
Did you hear about the Jury consisting of 12 ExplorOz posters?

They declared the defendant Guilty. 12 Jurors with 12 different offences and they didn't even need to hear the defence story, or leave their living rooms.

Talk about analysis paralysis. Lucky there were no Iphones or facebook when we all learned how to enjoy ourselves learning 4wding and adventure..

While I am sure none of the people in this video had fun at the time,but I'll bet that they had a great laugh while out enjoying themselves later that night over a beer or two while the people making judgement are sitting at home...

Does anyone else think Social media has distorted reality?
AnswerID: 615798

Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 20:45

Saturday, Dec 30, 2017 at 20:45
Learned? I'm mid 50's and still learning. :-)
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FollowupID: 886867

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 08:07

Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 08:07
Yeah me too Ivan.

The main thing I have learned wrt this subject is make sure your screw ups are not caught on facebook...You will be criticised and ridiculed forever. Doh. I like to keep knowledge of all my screw ups to a small, hand picked group. :-)

OT I'm getting a thing for "Post event, armchair analysis" which comes with Social media. It stems from disdain for those enquiries on Police who kill an offender in the line of duty. A cop makes a split second, life or death decision while putting his life on the line, and a dammed committee stews over it for weeks, trying to come up with the best political solution that furthers their own careers. IMHO the offender writes the rules and foregoes his rights the second they start to commit a crime. All bets are off....

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.




2
FollowupID: 886883

Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 09:45

Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 09:45
Based a lot of my early 4WD education on Russell Coight videos. Whilst probably not a very good idea it sure provided a lot of excitement.
Dave.
1
FollowupID: 886889

Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 21:27

Sunday, Dec 31, 2017 at 21:27
" IMHO the offender writes the rules and foregoes his rights the second they start to commit a crime. All bets are off...."

I was mostly with you there, until this piece, but... no. Just no.
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FollowupID: 886934

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