ignition pickup for Dmax?

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 15:46
ThreadID: 136092 Views:989 Replies:9 FollowUps:26
Hi

Can anyone point me to where there might be an ignition feed under the bonnet of Isuzu D Max please?

A mate purchased a NEW caravan and discovered that the DC DC charger (Projector) in the 'van boot was not working........and after taking it back to dealer and others in more than one occasion there was still no joy......

For the last 2 years they have had to travel with no fridge working whilst on the road (3 way fridge) as obviously the house battery didn't and cant last on 12v.

I dropped in the other day and a quick read of the manual (not supplied by dealer...I had to download off the web)...showed clearly the ignition feed on the charger needed to be connected to enable the device to work......not rocket science and as soon as I looked there it was.....all lonely with nothing connected !...Unbelievable !!

Anyway I looped a 12v from the car Anderson plug feed in onto it and now all is good but obviously constantly live whilst the Anderson plug is plugged to the vehicle.

I didn't have time or wire / relay on hand etc to hook up an ignition feed to the rear power supply to solve the issue....so its still live 24/7..... (another dodgy job from a sparky) so when I am next visiting I will rectify the issue for him but to save time can anyone advise me where to look under the bonnet?

Its a 140km round trip for me and would be nice if I went there knowing where to look for it rather than spend time looking if it doesn't exist......If it doesn't I will do it for him with VSR but its cheaper and simple via an existing pick up point & relay

Thanks
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Reply By: Mikee5 - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:09

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:09
On my Landcruiser I used the power wire to the windscreen wiper motor. Only accessible 12 volt wire I could find which is always live with ignition/acc. Good luck.
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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:29

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:29
Yes I had thought of that failing all else.
On my 200 I found a point near the radiator....and on the '79 series there was a dedicated box with ignition & acc.

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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:12

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:12
The safest place is the power outlets inside.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:39

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:39
Err, on a D-max are those outlets switched off when the key is off?

I ask because on my BT50 and I think the Rangers they are live all the time. God knows why - it's a stupid arrangement IMO, but it is what it is.
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:25

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:25
On a Dmax both are switched. I have used the glovebox outlet to power a relay that gives me a master ignition power under the bonnet. I then wired the glovebox socket permanently to the auxiliary battery. Great for charging phones.
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:26

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:26
As a side note. Ford has reverted the Rangers back to switched outlets. Some Nissians can be wired as both.
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Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 12:23

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 12:23
Easiest way is to use a piggy back fuse in the fuse block under the bonnet - fuse number 4 ENGINE would be OK.
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 19:33

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 19:33
That fuse powers the ECU! Glitch that and you be in a world of shit
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Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 21:37

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 21:37
Ivan, if you follow my link you will see that the piggy back fuse just goes in parallel with the original, how is this going to effect the original fuse?

There are other fuses that can be used, this was the first one that I saw that is on the ignition supply.
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Monday, Jan 15, 2018 at 19:13

Monday, Jan 15, 2018 at 19:13
Kazza. I'm an autoelec. I know how a piggy back fuse works and if you think it doesn't affect the original circuit then I'll advise you right now to never do electrical work again! Were do you think the power for the second circuit comes from? Thin air? It comes from the engine fuse which powers the ECU. If rob to much power from that circuit you could damage the ECU. You can also fry the computer with back EMF. We have had two vehicles in that were done like this and were lucky to just put the vehicle into limp mode which was reset with a scan tool after we removed the piggy back fuse. We use them all the time but we are very selective on how we use them and what we power from them. Use the power outlets as they are designed to be abused
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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:37

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:37
.
Hi Graeme,

I wired up a D-max for a mate recently that included a 3-way fridge and dc-dc charger in the van. This also required an ignition feed to the charger to enable it. Not wishing to run an ignition wire from the engine bay to the van, I came up with an alternative.

I connected the charger's 'Ignition' wire to the main 12v feed coming to the van via the Anderson plug (i.e. the chargers 12v input), and the 12v supply to the 3-way fridge was also fed from the same main 12v feed. In the engine bay I installed a 100A solenoid isolator (VSR) that controlled the 12v feed to the van. This then permitted feed to the van when the alternator was charging and powered the fridge as well as the dc-dc charger, but isolated them both when the vehicle was stopped. It also eliminated the need to locate and connect an ignition source in the engine bay. The solenoid can be had for $65 on eBay. Connecting the fridge to the 12v feed rather than to the charger output ensures that all of the charger's output is available for charging the battery.

The other thing that made this circuit ideal for this particular job was the provision of an Anderson socket in the tub to charge a tub battery for the occasion of travelling without the van and with a 'battery box' and Engel in the tub. This Anderson socket is tee'd to the main feed to the van supply and the engine bay solenoid then also controls the tub socket.

The other good point about this arrangement is that the Anderson at the drawbar is fully isolated when the vehicle is parked so that no-one can fool with a live dc supply in your absence.

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:53

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 16:53
What is the model of the DCDC charger?
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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:24

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:24
Projecta 20 amp DC DC only ...not solar

cheers
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:39

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:39
Hi,

I thought the DMAX had a standard charging setup and you wouldn't need the ignition source for the charger to operate?
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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:43

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:43
The problem is the caravan and the DC DC charger in the 'van requiring an ignition source to activate it once. The Dmax & its charging system is not the ssue

Its a stupid idea of Projecta......other reputable brands well at least Ctek & Redarc have that function inside automatically....no need for all this messing around.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:48

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:48
The current Projectas have an ignition source but you only need to connect it if the car has a smart alternator, for standard charging systems the unit detects when the alternator starts charging and powers up, the Vistas for instance have been using the Projecta chargers for at least three years without using the ignition source and these work ok with Prado's etc?
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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:59

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:59
I understand what your saying but this model only works as per the instructions.....It will not work by sensing alternator input and switching internally.....trust me the manual states it and I have tested it..

CUT N PASTE... ". The Ignition terminal must be connected to a positive power source between 10V and 17V for the DC20 to operate (19B&S or 0.64mm2 cable is sufficient). This can be done in two ways:

a) Connect ignition terminal to the vehicle’s ignition. The DC20 will operate only when the vehicle’s ignition is turned on. Fit a 3A fuse to the cable as close as possible to the vehicle’s ignition.

b) For continuous operation connect the ignition terminal to the DC20 positive input terminal. This can be done by connecting a short piece of wire fitted with ring terminals directly to the ignition and DC20 positive input terminals.

Appreciate your input...I will go down the path of a VSR to protect tug battery

cheers
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:06

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:06
Fair enough, must be an old model, to save using a large VSR, if the voltage drop at the chargers not to great you might be able to get away with using a cheap voltage sensitive switch in the van itself as a trigger for the ignition lead.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 19:10

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 19:10
Just had another thought, there wouldn't be a BMS in the van you could use to trigger than charger would there?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 20:02

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 20:02
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Leigh, you seem to be missing the point. There is no problem in "triggering" the charger. Graeme has done that. The issue is providing alternator power to the 3-way fridge which will be isolated when the vehicle is at rest.

Graeme has his resolution on this already. It's sorted.


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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 20:31

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 20:31
Alan,

He wrote he had a temporary solution for triggering the charger, was just offering up alternatives, another he could use is simply to leave the wiring from the car as is, install a fridge switch in the van and this could control the fridge as well triggering the charger assuming the wiring is up to scratch.
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Reply By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:16

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:16
Thanks Alan

What you did for the ignition feed is exactly what I did to get the DC DC charger functioning in the short term.

My mate is "electrically challenged" and despite reassuring me he will remember to disconnect the Anderson plug when not driving...his wife KNOWS that they will both forget...{& to reconnect}.....hence the ignition feed question OR the VSR alternative as I stated....to prevent the tug discharging when stationary.

Your added improvement of the fridge feeding direct is an excellent idea...rather than depleting the house battery once the tug is stationary.....As we know the 3 way fridges are terrible on 12v and the house battery will be depleted in next to no time.....

I will go down my alternative path of the VSR as you did...but now with the added modification of the fridge wiring as you have done.

All I need to do is to check his vehicles charging voltage as we both know the modern day alternators wont activate the older style VSR's...(needing a higher kick in voltage) .....although the 13.2 v stated on your link I am sure is now accommodating the newer style alternator specs?

Cheers
Graeme
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:23

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:23
Rather than installing a VSR, might be better off selling the current DCDC charger and purchasing a unit that can that doesn't require an ignition source to activate it.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:41

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:41
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Graeme, the VSR I actually used was a Redarc SBI-12 rather than the cheaper one from 'autoelecau' which has only recently become available.

The Redarc SBI-12 is also 12.7v-13.2v which worked fine on the D-Max.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:52

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:52
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HKB, the Redarc and Projecta chargers that incorporate an 'ignition' control input are intended for applications where reliance cannot be placed on the alternator output voltage to 'enable' them. They can also be used with 'regular' alternators simply by connecting their 'ign' wire directly to the 12vdc input to disable the 'ign' function and operate directly on the alternator voltage level.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:58

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:58
Alan,

As far as I'm aware the Projecta charger should work without the ign source connected in a standard setup such as the DMAX, you only need to use the ign source for a smart charge setup?
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:02

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:02
From Projecta:

5. If your vehicle has fixed voltage or temperature compensating alternator installed, leave the Ignition Override cable (blue colour) open. If your vehicle has smart (variable voltage) alternator installed, the Ignition Override cable must be connected to the vehicle’s ignition. The IDC25 will only operate when the vehicle’s ignition is turned on.
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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:02

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:02
HKB & Alan

I have just done a Cut n Paste from the manual (see above somewhere) and as Alan & myself have discovered it needs ignition source as per manual.

The VSR makes sense for all the reasons previously mentioned

Thanks to you both for your input

Cheers

Graeme

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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:07

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:07
HKB

just noticied your post....we are talking a different model...( This is a DC20 & I belive may be 3 years or more in age)

this one has no wires of any colour anywhere...just 2 input and 2 output lugs and 1 input ignition lug....hence the confusion of model specs I think.

cheers
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Reply By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:27

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:27
I thought about suggesting selling but your looking at a few hundred $ to change over and using the existing one is still cheaper and workable.

Why Projecta design it like that is any ones guess and why a reputable brand caravan would use them is another guess.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:30

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 18:30
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Yes, this is the situation for the older Projecta DC20:

"IGNITION CONNECTION
The DC20 can be wired to the vehicle’s ignition allowing it to operate only when the ignition is turned on. Alternatively you can connect the ignition and input terminals for continuous operation."

The later models reverse that connection to achieve much the same function.

I am not so familiar with Projecta products as I am with Redarc. I simply do not like Projecta and find sourcing their technical information somewhat inconvenient.

Anyway, Graeme has it by the "short & curlies" so it is of no consequence.

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Reply By: Athol W1 - Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:57

Saturday, Jan 13, 2018 at 17:57
Bungarra
The easiest way is to splice into the cig lighter feed, this at least will give a positive feed whilst ever either the Ignition OR accessories are operational but not when switched off.

If you lift the under bonnet fuse cover there are 2 white plugs on the battery side of the assembly. In the second (largest plug/number of wires) plug there are 2 wires on the front row, one black the other white, and 2 unused holes. You will find that the white wire (the one in the front corner furthest from the battery) is only live when the ignition is switched on. This is the power source that I have used to switch the relay to power my Daylight Running Lights. My vehicle is a 2015 build, others may be a little different.

On the earlier Rodeo badged vehicles you could use the Air Con fuse, as in those vehicles the air con only operated when the Alternator was in operation.

Hope this helps.
Regards
Athol
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Reply By: Member - Allan L2 - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 16:07

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 16:07
On my Dmax I connected my fridge Anderson plug to the positive battery terminal via a H/D blade fuse & a 50 amp relay (mounted under the bonnet) which is triggered by a low current draw from the fuse box located inside the cab & only whist the ignition is on.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 20:25

Sunday, Jan 14, 2018 at 20:25
I've wired up a couple of Isuzu MU-X's now for their caravans,
Keep it simple - install a Narva 140A VSR and use it to power the anderson plug, the caravan 3-way fridge (and caravan fridge sensing lead) all behind the VSR.
Then all will work as intended.

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Follow Up By: gbc - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 06:49

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 06:49
The ‘new and improved’ mux has entered the world of the smart alternator. Just a heads up if you are doing any newer ones.
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