Rear Lights

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 28, 2018 at 21:15
ThreadID: 136171 Views:1243 Replies:8 FollowUps:12
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I've just went into the classifieds and there are 2 x 4WD's with their rears covered with spare tyres.

Is this set-up even legal in NSW? Or for that matter, other States an Territories?

On my truck, if I had an over-hang I had to tie a red flag and for night driving a red light, but, other drivers had to be warned, these two vehicles cannot possibly warn anyone of their intentions

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Reply By: Shaker - Sunday, Jan 28, 2018 at 21:18

Sunday, Jan 28, 2018 at 21:18
I think if you look closely, the Landcruiser has additional lights added below the height of the wheel & the Patrol uses the lights in the rear bumper.

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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderers - Sunday, Jan 28, 2018 at 22:11

Sunday, Jan 28, 2018 at 22:11
OK, thanks Shaker, question answered

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Reply By: Dion - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 09:48

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 09:48
I've got a MCC rear bar with tyre and jerry can carrier on my '13 D-Max and a Kaymar rear bar with tyre and jerry can carrier on '03 RA Rodeo. Both have additional lights on the bar, although the Kaymar bar, from straight behind, the vehicle lights can be seen ok, but not from an angle.
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Reply By: Malcom M - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 09:58

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 09:58
Nothing to stop you adding more lights if you feel the need...
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2018 at 23:33

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2018 at 23:33
If you want to get picky and get out the rule book ....... yeh there is.

Passenger cars are only supposed to have on single set of functioning tail lights

trucks and busses can have two sets.

BUT I have never heard of anybody getting pinged

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Reply By: swampy - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:02

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:02
hi
If a tail / brake light is obstructed its illegal . Particularly from an angle . Remember if u have somebody run into the back off u ,this may cause insurance issues .

Many bike carriers are now fitted with an extra brake light .

Only road users who think about themselves restrict viewing of tail brake lights DOH!!
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Reply By: DiggZ - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:23

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:23
I believe in Qld that they should be visible from a 45* angle, any direction and both at the same time. On the back of my van one is blocked a bit but then the other is fully visible so wasn't too concerned about it. Then at a free caravan safety/weight check I was informed that they both need to be visible from 45*. That was the only problem they could find so I was happy and have since fitted extra lights.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 11:52

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 11:52
Great to see you take up the caravan/ safety weigh check. Would be nice if many others did the same.
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Reply By: Blown4by - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 14:26

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 14:26
ADR13 has a requirement that the angles of 'geometric visibility' must be complied with. Hence why the Y61 Patrol and some others (in Australia) have the rear lamps in the rear bumper (down where all the mud and dust accumulates) The original rear lamps are just 'dummies' to fill the hole in the body apart from the LH single reverse lamp. This is all due to the rear mounted spare tyre on the RHS restricting the geometric visibility which requires the rear lamps to be visible from 45° inwards, 80° from the sides and 15° above and below the horizontal axis (excluding Reverse Lamps and Registration Plate Lamps and rear lamps mounted in optional positions with regrard to height depending on the vehicle design. Hence why since October 1991 vehicles have rear lamps that 'wrap around' the sides. Geometric visibility also applies to front lamps, side lamps and reflectors.
Often commercial and private vehicle modifiers fit various bars and other components that restrict these angles and though ignorance they do not fit additional lamps so that the requirements of ADR13 continue to be met. Another frequently seen mistake is that they will install additional LED rear lamps on the rear tyre carriers of the type without reflectors but omit to fit additional red reflectors. Sometimes if only one spare tyre carrier is fitted the installer will fit only one additional rear lamp below the tyre however this neither complies with ADR13 as all lamps must be symmetrical. i.e. What you do one one side of the vehicle must match the other side of the vehicle (in height, width, lamp design, etc.) If anyone thinks reflectors are insignificant, ask the guy who was decapitated on his way to work when a long extendible semi-trailer pulled out of a side road in front of him in partial darkness when he was heading in to the rising sun or the guy who owned a vehicle legally parked at night when a drunk ran into it causing injuries and the court apportioned part of the blame to the owner of the parked vehicle (who was asleep in his bed) just because 'the vehicle was there'.
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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 16:50

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 16:50
Explained pretty well by others. Basically all the commercially produced rear bars that include wheel/Jerrycan carriers have extra lights fitted in the bars to conform to the ADR as can be seen in the attached photo. Since this photo was taken, I have actually installed extra Brake/Tail/Indicators on the back of the Roof Rack.

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 16:52

Monday, Jan 29, 2018 at 16:52
The lights on your rack won’t be legal, due to their height.

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Follow Up By: Dean K3 - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:58

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:58
Macca, fully agree with what you have done,I have done the same. Increases safety by 500% if that's possible, mathematically.

simple reason lights in rear bar close to ground can't be seen by heavy vehicle drivers, i was having this convo with one whilst we were lined up waiting at gate. driver said nice setup but geesh as i got closer i couldn't see your indicators, all tucked up under the spare wheels.

Was enough to prompt me to install a pair.

Had a TEG (highway patrol officer) behind me one day in a private convoy and simply loved how mine was set up.

@ Shaker can you advise where under ADR mounting additional combination lights is illegal please.

If what you are saying is correct then why do all pantechs 4.3m high and transperth buses all have high level tail and/or brake indicator lights ?

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:43

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:43
As well as the stop/tail/indicators, I have also installed a pair of work lights that can also be switched on when reversing to increase my ability to see what is behind
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 15:50

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 15:50
A friend was pulled up near Mansfield in a road block testing purge, he was told if he could have turned on his rack mounted work lights from the drivers seat, he would have been booked.
Before you ask, I don’t have the policeman’s name, number or the relevant law, just passing on a factual incident.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 16:07

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 16:07
DeanK3, in answer to your question the relevant ADR is:

6.5.4.2.1. The height of the light-emitting surface of the side direction-indicator lamps of categories 5 or 6 must not be:

less than: 350 mm for M1 and N1 category of vehicles, and 500 mm for all other categories of vehicles, both measured from the lowest point; and

more than: 1,500 mm, measured from the highest point.

6.5.4.2.2. The height of the direction-indicator lamps of categories 1, 1a, 1b, 2a and 2b, measured in accordance with paragraph 5.8., shall not be less than 350 mm or more than 1,500 mm.
—————————————————————————————————-

Clearance or Marker lamps are permitted but must be a minimum 600mm above the fitted tail lights.

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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 17:09

Wednesday, Jan 31, 2018 at 17:09
Shaker the part of the ADR to which you refer concerns Side Indicator Lamps which as their name implies are mounted on the side of the vehicle, not at the rear.
Hi mounted rear lamps and hi mounted front park/indicator lamps are NOT illegal provided the original lamps are mounted in the ADR specified preferred height positions. The ADR also provides that where a vehicles structure is such that the lamps cannot be mounted at the heights specified, then other height mounting positions are permitted. Every mining light vehicle in WA as well as mining contractors light vehicles are fitted with hi mounted rear lamps and many are fitted with hi mounted front park/indicator lamps as well. The reason is so the dump truck & FEL operators, which are obviously much higher, can see these vehicles. The lights on these vehicles are not restricted to mine site use and can be seen daily on public roads as are many 4WD enthusiasts similarly modified vehicles. If you are improving vehicle visibility hence its safety, provided the mounting of the ADR required lamps complies in terms of height and does not present a distraction or confuse other road users then no copper with an ounce of common sense is going to be interested. That said, you always get the over zealous few who are usually wrong anyway.
The hi mounted lamps up to 4.3m in height at the front and rear of pantechs, omnibuses and other large heavy vehicles are not stop/tail/indicator lamps but are correctly called End Outline Marker Lamps (formerly Clearance Lamps) They are required to be mounted at the extremities of width and height to heavy vehicles with this type of body structure to indicate to oncoming/following drivers the size and presence of such vehicles which are wider and sometimes slower (sometimes not) than light vehicles. ADR13 specifies different mounting positions for lamps on various vehicle categories such as passenger, off-road, light/medium/heavy commercial motor vehicles, light/heavy trailers, light/heavy omnibuses, motor cycles, etc. You cannot compare or justify the rules that apply to one vehicle category to another because each is specific to that vehicle type. It is also common to see on heavy vehicles additional rear stop/indicator lamps to make them more visible in conditions of poor visibility such as fog or spray caused by wet conditions or because the lower lamps become dirty with road grime or diesel fumes and this is quite legal provided as with light vehicles the original lamps are mounted within the correct height range as specified in the ADR.
McLaren3030. You state: "Basically all the commercially produced rear bars that include wheel/Jerrycan carriers have extra lights fitted in the bars to conform to the ADR as can be seen in the attached photo" The commercially produced bars sold in VIctoria must be better than those sold in WA because most here do not comply insofar as lighting is concerned as mentioned in my earlier post. Not criticising but I beg to differ that yours is compliant (TBC by tape measure) as the red reflectors appear to exceed the maximum 400mm from the outside edge of the vehicle as ADR13 specifies and this has resulted in the LH red reflector being almost impossible to see below the spare tyre.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Feb 01, 2018 at 19:30

Thursday, Feb 01, 2018 at 19:30
Hi Blown4by, just went out to measure the reflectors, and guess what, not only were they outside the legal limit being as they were at 600 mm from the edge of the vehicle, they have also fallen off & are no longer there!!!
Guess I will be making a trip to SuperCheap Autos tomorrow to buy a set. :-)
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Follow Up By: Dean K3 - Thursday, Feb 01, 2018 at 19:55

Thursday, Feb 01, 2018 at 19:55
Nicely worded Blownby : As per what I was thinking in a abridged format every mine spec has them fitted.

I did mean to refer to clearance outline markers but have noticed and why I mentioned it. Transperth buses have hi mount indicators even on the front, and fairly certain seen them at rear as well. not a full 4.3m otherwise they won't fit under Bayswater subway -its close I can tell you that much.

Tad concerned about the reflector issue nothing mounted on my rear bar period, however I do offset this by having a strip of flouro hi vis/green yellow on rear bar just in case - better than nothing.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Feb 14, 2018 at 07:13

Wednesday, Feb 14, 2018 at 07:13
Mansfield, famous for carrying out purges on non compliant 4wds.
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Reply By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Feb 13, 2018 at 23:48

Tuesday, Feb 13, 2018 at 23:48
I've just checked the ADR ....... there is a specific paragraph now covering additional light to deal with installed accessories

6.1.2. Where the installation of equipment or accessories for operational reasons invalidates the compliance of lamps originally fitted in accordance with this vehicle standard, additional lamps must be fitted to maintain compliance.

I don't recall that being there in the past
I expect that as originally manufactured passenger cars shall still have only one set of tail lights.

cheers
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