'Fly by nights' in National Parks

For NSW I agree with you. The Parks people do a terrific job in the main.

Where I lose my sympathy for the system is the SA and Qld National Parks with their ridiculous "book ahead" policy where you have to call and book. We often do not know where we might stop and so we cannot book in many instances.

And if you are lucky enough to fluke a ranger, they cannot take any fees from you.

And they do not provide any alternative means of paying for your spot if you are out of mobile service areas.

I asked one ranger how much he his department would want to throw at someone who decides to go to court to challenge them if they were to be fined. He indicated that knowing some the stay at home public servants who make these rules, they would probably commit their entire budget to recover the $11 is paid.

But ... when I stayed in the Gawler Rangers NP last year and decided (on local advise) that it would be better for us to pull out due to the threat of oncoming rain, I (cheekily) requested a refund of my 2 days that I did not use and they said they were not responsible for the change in weather so "suck it up" (my words .. )

So I have two days up my sleeve :)

Camped in SA last week.
Only online bookings, no phone reception.
This system is hopeless for travellers without an itinerary.

when I last stayed at mimosa, the ranger rocked up about 8 every morning on foot....good stratagy I thought...except the sundowners left at 6. As I write this, I am supposed to be at Pebbly beach, booked ahead for a week and left 2 days into heavy rain....you win some, you loose some

I agree that fly by nighters are a pain in the arse. Booked a site at Little Dip near Robe a few weeks back and there was a tent on the site. So I moved the tent to another site. Then the guy turned up and had all the excuses in the world why he couldn't book online. I offered him my phone with coverage. He declined. Then he went for a drive and someone else turned up on the site we moved him to. So we moved his tent to a patch of ground nearby as all the sites were taken. He slept the night in his little tent on the side of the road and yes, he didn't pay a cent.
What a moron.
Sometimes I think the system is fine but the users are the problem.

On last years trip we encountered similar problems in both SA and Qld at various different parks.
The response from queries to rangers in both states was that they are as peed off with the systems as the travellers.
They also said that as they are no longer responsible for collecting said fees they have also been told they are no longer responsible for checking that fees and permits have been paid or obtained. As one said as they can't sell passes or collect fees what is the point of enforcing it!!
Passes like the DPP in SA can and mostly are purchased beforehand but if no one is checking the ones that don't then eventually many won't purchase one.
I and fellow travellers thought that they hoped that revenue losses might finally get through to the office wallies that the system won't work when the nearest phone and internet is 100's of k's away.
Onsite at the campsite paying and booking is the only way it will work for the majority of travellers as even those with fixed itineraries can be delayed by weather and vehicle problems.

It would be better if actual sites weren't allocated. Book to camp there, first in gets the best spot. Better still, an annual camping permit valid for everywhere. Then you can pull up stumps early or stay longer and still be valid. This booking actual spots is a recipe for disaster.

Re the SA NPs online campsite booking system... I've been wondering how that was working out. Sounds like its working as well as I imagined it would. ;)

Indeed, it is a bit impractical to require online booking at places that lack mobile coverage AND are not accessible by all-weather roads. It doesn't take much rain to delay travelers one or more days (as I learned in 2008!)

I was hoping to visit some of those NPs on my upcoming trip. Not sure what to do about campsites. In May or June, will there still be any available to book a week in advance? I can't accurately predict weeks or months in advance, where I'll be or need a campsite.

While not condoning the actions of those who steal from our community, it is not hard to understand why they might be able to justify not paying as required:
* the National Parks management seem to live in a different world to the rest of us and the practicalities of paying their fees don't even seem to be considered. Many times it is not practical, other times it is not even possible, to pay the demanded fees...

a). as has been mentioned above by others - online only payments in areas with no internet or mobile phone service available, quite laughable really.
b). coin only payments for large sums of money (anything over a couple of dollars worth of coins becomes unwieldy)
c). the assumption that we all carry a till or float complete with large sums of cash in various denominations to enable repeated payments in the exact amount at various places with varying fees (try travelling the West MacDonnell loop for a few days and paying the exact amount at each campsite (by the end of it, I was tempted just to fill out the form with instructions to deduct the appropriate amount from my credit card).

* Most of the income to National Parks management is paid by our taxes, which we all pay, whether we pay our camp fees or not (or even whether we camp or not) - I would have to question whether the amounts collected from camping fees actually covers the cost of administering the collection of such fees (except perhaps at Jervis Bay where the fees would be sufficient to pay the salary of the rangers, including leave entitlements, superannuation and Toyota Hilux). Having said that, people don't generally value that which they get for free, so having to pay a modest fee to camp may assist in curbing vandalism and reckless damage to some extent.

* It seems that much of the National Parks expenditure is not spent on upkeep, but rather spent on keeping the public out with the proliferation of coppers log barriers and locked gates.

The problem is not just prevalent in Nat Parks ,out our way we see fly -by -niters all the time , pull up at the council provided c /park after 4pm , set up camp , wander down to the one and only pub / shop ,have the one beer then back to camp , use the showers , build the fire , drink their 'imported' [Dan Murphy] beers and be gone by 7am before the council office is open to pay the exorbitant [insert sarcasm ] fee of $10 for a powered site /showers /free fire wood per nite , and NO it is not just 'backpackers' ,,,,people might say 'put in an honesty box' ? Gets stolen , have council worker 'collect' site fees 'after hours' " Got no cash till shop opens in morning ' .... any excuse NOT TO PAY ......

Geez, reading all that makes me glad I have a dog and National Parks are out of the question.
What a shemozzle of an idea.
Hope they've made adjustments to the system by the time I am one day able to do National Parks again...but being a government service, I assume not.

The internet booking system works quite well in the popular places where there is a resident Ranger. This undoubtedly brings in lots of revenue and relieves the Rangers of a lot of work. These are the places that are generally popular during school holidays when families know where they want to go and how long they want to stay.

All the people on this forum are talking about the places where there is not a resident Ranger. Because it works well in the popular places and brings in lots of revenue they are unlikely to change their systems.

I have over the years taken to writing to politicians at election times to try and get some changes, but all I have ever got are flowery replies that avoid the real issues. I have even pointed out that their policy leads to on site arguments and if you where to get two particularly fiery characters someone could seriously be hurt, or even killed. I hope this never happens but will not be surprised if it did.

I refuse to pay for something that I do not know is fit for purpose. Camp sites vary greatly and not all camp sites will suit my camping setup. So I go to a camp spot, and if there is a suitable campsite I will occupy it and if I have telephone reception I will book and pay for the site. If no reception there is no payment and should someone turn up who has booked the site and has the evidence to prove it, I will negotiate with them and try and find a solution. My experience is that things can usually be worked out as most people understand the situation and are reasonable.

I would be more than happy to pay at a later date when I do have phone reception but their booking system will not permit paying using a date that has passed. I will not pay using a future date as this my preclude someone else from making a genuine booking.

I am waiting for the day that a Ranger turns up checking that fees have been paid. This has not happened so far. I doubt that any Ranger will take any action, they simply do not have the time, and most probably the inclination. I suspect that if any action was threatened against me I would insist that the matter go to Court, and that any Court would throw the matter out. I suspect that the Parks people know this and while they huff and puff, they would never take the matter to Court.
A non government business who insisted that you pay for something that maybe not suitable to you, that may not be available at the time you went to use it, and offer no refunds should it not be available or suitable, would be breaking the Consumer Laws. Parks are not going to take anyone to Court because their chance of winning is not great and if their system is thrown out by a Court their whole booking system would have to be changed.

If others choose the same course as me and Parks threaten you with legal action please let me know because I will be there, and possible a couple of hundred others as well, to see the show and give any help I/they can.

Cheers to all,
Chris

A lot of good points have been made here. On a recent trip in the Gawler Ranges with the sign always pointing out "Book online at SA gov dot blabla" yet no service. I think the time has come for a yearly National National Parks Pass. I for one never have a set schedule that I can book 3 weeks ahead.