H55F gearbox or transfer case whine

Submitted: Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 20:23
ThreadID: 136473 Views:1599 Replies:10 FollowUps:9
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Hi all,

Newly purchased my first cruiser. It's a 95 hzj75 troopy, with a 1HZ and H55f. It has the normal growl noise at lower rpm's in too high a gear. But I also have a whine that very slightly comes in 3rd gear, gets louder into 4th and stays in 5th. The frequency of it is related to road speed and goes away if I take my foot off the accelerator. No other symptoms of a worn gearbox or transfer, everything works as it should. Have changed the oils to make sure they are up to spec. Nothing untoward came out of the gearbox or transfer when i pulled out the drain plugs.

Sounds just like this:https://youtu.be/CvMXlpjPs6I

I know it's hard to diagnose things over the internet, just wondering if anyone has similar issues, how worried I need to be, and where I should start looking into first.

Cheers

Dave
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:09

Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:09
Dave, If it is a lower noise in 3rd and louder in fourth and stay in fifth and disappears when you back off, could it be the rear differential ? Sounds to me like it could be when it gets louder with speed. Michael
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AnswerID: 617825

Follow Up By: Dave M16 - Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:23

Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:23
It does get louder with speed up until around 100kph in 5th, then it starts to quieten off a bit. But that just may be due to road noise/ wind. It sounds like it is coming from the transfer/ back of the gearbox area, but noises can travel i guess.
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FollowupID: 889627

Reply By: Dave M16 - Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:25

Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:25
I have also noticed i have about 2mm of radial movement in the slip yoke splines for the tailshaft - this was pre-greasing. I'm not getting any vibrations, but wondering if this could be a culprit?
AnswerID: 617826

Reply By: RMD - Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:43

Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 22:43
Dave M16
The noise may be typical but it may be a good idea to run Nulon G70 in the gearbox, transfercase and differential (unless it is an LSD).
The Teflon cushions the gears and prolongs the bearing life and also provides higher scuff resistance to the final drive gears of the crownwheel and pinion.

A mate of mine bought a used Telecom HJ60 years ago and it had very noisey bearings in the gearbox. Added Nulon G70 and the box surprisingly did 80,000km more before a rebuild.
I ran it in my HJ61 for 25 years and the box and transmission and diff showed hardly any drain plug fuzz at service times, far less than other vehicles I have serviced.
I use it in GB and transfer of my Dmax. Of course, not in the LSD diff though.
AnswerID: 617827

Follow Up By: Dave M16 - Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 23:33

Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 23:33
Cheers for the advice, have put a tube of the G70 in the gearbox but didn't seem to improve things. Was planning on chucking a tube in the transfer to see if things get a bit quieter and at least that will pin point where the problem is, aswell as give the old girl a bit more life.

Thanks again!
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FollowupID: 889628

Reply By: tonysmc - Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 23:07

Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 23:07
I had this problem and after spending a fortune, found out it was the speedo cable. Frustrating part was someone suggested this to me and I said the noise couldn't possibly be coming from the speedo cable.
It easy to check, just unscrew it from the gearbox and go for a drive..
Tony
AnswerID: 617829

Follow Up By: Dave M16 - Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 23:34

Sunday, Mar 25, 2018 at 23:34
Will definitely give this a go soon and see how it goes. Cheers for the advice
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FollowupID: 889629

Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 08:13

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 08:13
Never heard of a whine from a speedo cable and a speedo cable won't be senstive to throttle position at any time. Maybe a speedo cable noise is a different thing entirely.

There is no items in the speedo cable or it's driven element to cause a whine.
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FollowupID: 889634

Follow Up By: Dave M16 - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 19:20

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 19:20
had a crack at this today but no joy. Was worth the 2 minutes worth of work to rule it out.
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FollowupID: 889660

Reply By: axle - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 07:44

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 07:44
G/Day Dave. Sounds like the hardsurfacing has worn off gears or bearings over time, may scream like that for a while or blow up tomorrow, thats the way it is ...lol.
Different oil or additives may help but never fixes things really!..hope all works out.


Cheers Axle.



AnswerID: 617833

Reply By: mike39 - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 08:10

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 08:10
From personal experience am sure the problem is in the transfer case.
My HZJ75 c/chas. developed a similar noise after 300000km. of pretty heavy towing work.
It begins with spline wear on the t/c input shaft/gear which then transfers to the idler gear/bearings/shaft.
The splined input gear engages with a very short splined length and can wear the splines completely away. An aftermarket gear is available with splines double the length which solves that problem.
The idler gear is supported on needle bearings running inside the gear bore and bearing directly on the idler shaft (visible from the rear of the t/c).
Wear takes place on the rollers and shaft, together with the input spline wear causing a misalignment of the input, idler/output gear cluster.
This is where the noise comes from, and the wear rate rapidly escalates.
The t/c rear half can be removed in situ for a rebuild, but to replace the input shaft (gearbox main shaft) requires the whole assembly be removed from the vehicle.
Without repair, I can definitely say its days (kilometres) are very numbered.
In my case I replaced with a re manufactured transmission.
mike
AnswerID: 617835

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 18:39

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 18:39
Mike39 has nailed it. The needle roller bearings in most Jap gearboxes are marginal at best, and are the first gearbox bearings to pack up.
Gear whines are caused by tooth misalignment, or by teeth losing their hardfacing, resulting in a rough tooth surface.

Cheers, Ron.

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FollowupID: 889658

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 20:16

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 20:16
Yep, 300,000K is about the life of that box. The hard facing was inferior on most faces both gears and shafts. If it has gone to far, which suspect it has, it won't be just a re-race and shaft/ seal replacement but some of the gears will be damaged, especially the idler gear in the transfer.

Sorry for the negative post but I have had a bit to do with these boxes.

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FollowupID: 889662

Reply By: Mudripper - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 14:01

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 14:01
Hi Dave,

I owned a HJ47 with a 2H and H55F that had a similar noise. The clutch went in it, so that gave me an excuse to pull the box and transfer assy out (as one piece mind you) and while replacing the clutch I decided to put a bearing kit through the box and transfer. One of the mainshaft bearings was stuffed, along with 3rd/4th synchro rings. I checked clearances/tolerances before and after replacing all of the bearings and seals and things 'tightened' up back to spec after the new bearings went in. Reinstalled the box, pumped some 80W-90 in and went for a drive. The box turned out to be as quiet as a mouse, couldn't believe the difference (even in a noisy vehicle like the old 47 lol).

The heavy-duty clutch required some extra input from the left leg though!

Cheers,

Tim
AnswerID: 617844

Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 16:31

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 16:31
Dave .

Most likely the gearbox .
Don't waste your money on additives
The correct gearbox oil is all you will ever need .
Good luck with it .

Cheers
AnswerID: 617846

Reply By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 18:03

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 18:03
Dave, I had this same problem in the H55f box turned out to be the transfer case. Had a bearing kit put thru it cost $1200 4 years ago. Strongly suggest you take it to a specialist in Gearbox and Diff. They have the experience to diagnose these things.
AnswerID: 617848

Reply By: Dave M16 - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 19:19

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 19:19
Massive thanks for all the advice and sharing of knowledge everyone. I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a rebuild kit for the transfer case and pull it apart and see what i can find. I've rebuilt the odd smaller gearbox in my time so am happy to tackle the job myself. Even found the manual online to help me through it.

I'll let you know how things pan out.
AnswerID: 617852

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 20:07

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 20:07
Dave, don't make the mistake of trying to re-use the shafts with the inbuilt race for the needle rollers.

You need those races in perfect nick - so 9 times out of 10, you need to throw the old shaft in the bin, and bite the bullet for a new shaft - even though the gears and teeth may still be quite good.

They're a lousy, cheap idea, those inbuilt races - it just means the manufacturers who use them, can get away with lower manufacturing costs by eliminating a separate, outer bearing race.

Don't use Koyo bearings if you can avoid them. My workshop neighbour, Joe, a former truck mechanic, rebuilt two Landcruiser gearboxes - and both failed within 10,000kms - and he had to re-do them.

In both cases, it was the same Koyo bearing that failed! Koyo supplied a new replacement bearing, of course! - but Joe had to wear the re-do cost!!
I won't mention what he thinks of Koyo bearings today!!

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 889661

Follow Up By: Dave M16 - Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 21:28

Monday, Mar 26, 2018 at 21:28
Thanks again Ron, was just looking at a kit that has Koyo bearings so i'll steer clear.
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FollowupID: 889669

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