Pre-fuel Filters for Landcruiser 200

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 12:57
ThreadID: 136506 Views:1855 Replies:12 FollowUps:30
We are planning an outback trip soon, and will need to refuel at a number of remote communities, where the quality of the fuel may be uncertain.
Would fitting a pre- fuel filter provide more protection to the vehicle? Or does anyone have a better suggestion?
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Reply By: Mick O - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 13:07

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 13:07
JB,

I have a "Fuel Manager" fuel filter on my 79 series and consider it a very worthwhile investment considering the amount fo outback travel I do and the remote locations and tins I pull fuel from.

Another recommendation for your consideration (and a much cheaper one) is the 'Mr Funnel' fuel filter funnel. I've had one for years and it has saved my bacon on more than one occasion, particularly when fueling up from drums. A fuel filter won't prevent you putting muck into the tank in the first place where as the funnel will.

Mr Funnel - proquip

Mr Funnel - Fleabay

Cheers

Mick




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Follow Up By: Member - kimberleybloke - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 13:20

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 13:20
X2 for the Mr Funnel as well. Better to prevent the crap getting in to the tank than trying to filter it out after it is in the tank.
Regards, Mark.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 16:11

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 16:11
Mick, What size Mr Funnel gives a good flow? What capacity size do you have? Michael.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 16:40

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 16:40
.
Michael, I don't wish to pre-empt Mick, but I'm sure he will agree.

The model F15C filter contains two filter elements and is rated at 45 litres/min.
The remainder have only one element and are rated at 10 to 19 litres/min.

Believe me, when you are holding a 20 litre jerry can and pouring, you will find even the 45 l/m filter frustratingly slow. Certainly do not use a HiFlow diesel pump at a servo. It is even somewhat difficult holding back the regular pump to a rate which will not cause funnel overflow.

Another issue is the funnel discharge spout. I assembled a couple of PVC plumbing components to provide a 45 degree angle to the funnel to better connect to the vehicle filler inlet and provide some support to the funnel.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 17:26

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 17:26
Thanks Allan, it's something I have been going to buy buy just haven't gotten around to it. Yes those 20 litre Jerries are getting heavier, I must be getting older, especially empting the first 10 litres into the tank. I saw a roof rack with a row of 10litre Fuel Safe jerries across the front a while back, a better idea, lower centre of gravity and easier on his back! Michael.
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 19:13

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 19:13
As we all get a bit older, everything seems to be heavier and take longer than it did 15 years ago.
This was another reason I bought a tray back, sit the Jerry can up and use a siphon hose, find it much easier, with or without my Mr. Funnel.
The mouthful of diesel is not so pleasant, but for me it out weighs the agony of holding the can up.

Cheers
.
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:10

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:10
Michael, I have the FC3 and while it's a bit smaller I've found that if you can get the swirl effect going in the funnel, it will suck down faster than 13 litres per minute. We've used the big double exit F15C and found it to actually be quite slow. It is a much better option if filling from a bowser though. If I'm in doubt with a bowser, I usually put the first 5-10 litres through the funnel and if there's no crap, just fill normally.

Another piece of advice if I might. Before each trip, test your funnel by filling it with water to ensure none get's through. If it permits water to pass, ring the company and talk to them about exchanging it.

Cheers Mick



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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 22:56

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 22:56
Thanks Mick, great feedback. Michael
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 01:46

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 01:46
I run a buzz box that has a 800cc engine in it.
Forever having issues with fueling up at servos the car would run like a sick dog in the mud.
I have since , bought the 45ltr mr funnel and ALWAYS fuel up my jerry cans first and then empty them into the car.
I am worried if...when i get around to make an adapter to go into the filler on the car the reduced diameter is going to make the refuel near impossible as pump shut off is already an issue when you dont be diligent on the bowser trigger.
I have since done maybe 50 to 80 easily of 20ltr jerry cans into the car
And car has never given me any issue / fuel related.
It sure is a pain, but with only 0.8 ltrs
Making sure you got power at the pedal is paramount in overtaking or just crossing heavy traffic.
Great product !!!
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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 13:28

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 13:28
JB, any pre filter will assist the main filter in removing contamination. Water is the biggest issue, so Water Watch make a descent alarmed water trap. Standyne make a fuel filter that can be electric priming, with water alarm on bowl, so you could put that in with a 5 micron filter, which will filter finer, watch and alarm if water is filtered, etc etc....
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 14:04

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 14:04
Dozer, fitting a 5 micron PRE filter (as in upstream of the OEM filter) is not recommended by any reputable diesel mechanic. They will recommend a 30 micron PRE filter. You can fit a 5 micron POST filter (down stream of OEM filter).

Copied from another forum,

"Strap yourself in, I reckon you will get a 50/50 for pre and post
I chose PRE for two simple reasons.

1) I have been advised (and it makes sense to me) not to do anything between the factory filter and the injectors that they are protecting.

2) I often change the pre filter myself, and whatever dirt or dust I may accidentally let in downstream from my pre filter, will be caught by the original filter (and not by the injector)"

Reason 1 above will not void your vehicle warranty as it has not "by-passed" or obviated the OEM filter and alarms that the manufacturer has installed to protect the injectors.

Macca.

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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 17:10

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 17:10
While I agree with the pre side of fitting a filter, having a 30 micron which passes things about 6 times bigger in area than a 10/11 micron filter does, the idea is to trap crap before the OE filter. Allowing 30 micron, LARGE stuff, through a CRD fuel system prefilter is still allowing the OE filter to get blocked quickly.
Only having a 30 micron allows that to happen and doesn't give much graduation in filtering at all.
A 10 micron filter allows 5 to 6 times the area of rubbish through to the OE filter,
a 30 micron is 6 times the width and breadth of a 5 micron size.
Imagine a circle of 30 dia and see how many 5 dia circles you can draw it there.
Even then there are gaps in between.
Don't talk to diesel experts, talk to filtering experts who make the filters, it is their business.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:14

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:14
Agree Macca, a primary filter is a primary filter and not placed there to do the job of the secondary filter, having done millions of K's that is how all the industry transport and earthmoving filters have been for years and years and still continue doing the same thing. Primary filter for the rocks, contaminates and as much water as they can remove. Secondary for the final filter and warnings.

I use poly jerry cans that are yellow for my diesel, that allows me to have a visual look into them and pick up water and any contaminates that you can see with the eye.

I have no problems with my secondary filter and I leave it alone, I don't change it for at least 30000k minimum, the same goes for the primary.

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Follow Up By: mountainman - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 01:53

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 01:53
Trouble with the fuel manager setups or similar.
Berrima diesel swears by doing it one way..
And diesel care swears by doing it another way..

To me .. fuel manager first with a 5micron then factory filter.

But berima and diesel care arent seeing eye to eye on this soo heck
It sure will be a hot debate considering the thousands of $$$$ in just the fuel systems alone.
What to bloody do !!
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 07:18

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 07:18
ok, i own a 200 and did the binns and simo last year, using a 30 micron pre filter, and long range tank. Not once did i have to touch anything, i simply filled up at major towns. I can say that when it came time to change my oem filter, it looked alot cleaner than previous filters without the 30 prefilter....so a 30 does help....but does it help enough?? The toyota filter is 10 micron, i read it in one of their brocures, so if you put a 5 pre....the toyota filter would then be a final protection with alarm for restriction and water....it should never need to be touched, and the 5 micron is half price to the toyota....now i dont know who told anyone anything, but common sense tells me you cant impede fuel delivery to the fuel pump without it costing you lots of money down the track, hence the old way of 30 pre and 10 post....but theres nothing wrong with putting any filter pre if you have an alarm on your dash that tells you its restricting flow, and with a 200, you have that...where it gets interesting is when diesel shops tell you to run a filter after the alarm, meaning the restriction will be between the fuel pump and that aftermarket filter if it starts blocking, and no alarm will go off in the cab.....does the diesel shop have your best interest at heart or payment of their rent money???
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 07:24

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 07:24
I put my 3 micron after the main oem filter. Anyone who has ever had anything to do with filter systems knows that you always filter out the biggest material first. People prattle on about warranty...how is a finer filter that is of the correct flow rate ever damage a pump or motor if regular maintenance is done? Most oem filters are in the 20-30 micron range anyways. I agree with the Mr.Funnel being slow. just try it up the cape when there is a line for fuel....I only put the first few litres in to test...however fuel up the cape is normally of good quality.
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 10:51

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 10:51
As long as you realise your 3 micron wont trip the toyota sensor being downstream, and you do regular maintenance, then you should be right.
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 11:17

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 11:17
Dozer, you are quite right on the Toyota sensor but the 'Fuel Manager' system I have has its own warning sensor fitted in the cab (and it's bloody loud!).

Cheers

Mick
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Reply By: Idler Chris - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:12

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:12
I use the smaller Mr Funnel. The funnel works best when it is absolutely vertical. I got some clear plastic hose that will slide on the funnel spout to extend it. You can get it at Bunnings. This hose extends the funnel end so that you can have the funnel vertical. You may have to have someone hold it while fuel is being poured or you maybe able to hold it in place with occy straps. The secret to using a MR Funnel is to pour the fuel in on an angle so that it swirls around the funnel. I have found that the smaller MR Funnel works well because with only one filter outlet the fuel will swirl around better. The twin filter Mr Funnel does not seem to swirl as fast, besides it is bigger and takes up more room. I have a 135 litre fuel tank and it will take a Hi-flow pump at full bore, and when the pump cuts out you are lucky to get another few litres in. If I am going to use the MR Funnel I normally go to the non Hi-flow pump as it is easier to control the flow and the nozzle more easily fits into the Mr Funnel.

Cheers, Chris
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Reply By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:28

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 20:28
its not always at remote communities you can have fuel problems ,but also name brand fuel servos with old tanks,if you have fuel cans on your roof rack,to save lifting them down ,you can always use an air pump,sorry cannot remember brand name
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 21:29

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 21:29
Is it the Tanami Pump, Barry? Was reading an old ad of theirs this morning.

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 21:42

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 21:42
I bought one of these at RTM a while back, for fuel transfer. There are 4 models available, depending on required flow rate. Not suitable for petrol.

Planned to use it to empty the 4 jerrycans that I carry when in the deserts. Ha ha, bit too big to go into the containers, but I may be able to add a short suction hose...........or buy a poly 90L tank that has almost identical footprint as 4 j'cans.



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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 22:52

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2018 at 22:52
.
Mick & Chris,

If the swirl effect improves fuel flow then perhaps you should tell ProQuip (Mr Funnel). They should be delighted to learn of that as it is not mentioned in their instructions.

The F15C model with two filter elements has ample room for an additional pair of elements which would double the flow. Perhaps I should point this out to ProQuip? lol.

Actually, I now have 270 litre tank capacity and never need to carry jerries so I no longer carry the filter either. I take my chances with remote fuel sources. Ah, the advantages of being free of Common Rail.
Anyone want a Mr Funnel?

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 08:59

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 08:59
my pump was the tanami pump good piece of gear barry
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Reply By: Warren B - Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 17:44

Thursday, Apr 05, 2018 at 17:44
Hi another one here for secondary fuel filter. I have a 3 micron secondary racor filter. Its changed every 20000k's and have had no probs yet, OE filter changed every 20000k's as well, done 180000k's. oops fitted to a 2012 landcruiser,
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Apr 06, 2018 at 23:52

Friday, Apr 06, 2018 at 23:52
Best to stick with a prefilter for the 200. That way you keep the clog warning system intact because the clog warning sensor is located on the factory filter and can only detect restriction that is upstream of the sensor. A postfilter can cause starvation without you knowing.
I've used the 30 micron prefilter for the past 100,000k and do all my own servicing. The factory filter has only been changed twice and both times it looked pretty clean. The prefilter gets changed before major trips or at least yearly and appears to be doing almost all the filtering.
I think its good additional protection but you still need to do the right things - only buy diesel from high turnover outlets like truckstops, and keep your tanks full so condensation doesn't become water in the tanks. I also add Chemtech additive because it has an algicide for the months when the vehicle doesn't get used much.

Also don't be sucked into changing your filters too frequently or you might kill your injectors and pump with love. Everytime you change the last filter in line you can expose the system to unfiltered dust, dirt or whatever - especially if you disconnect the outlet hose.
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Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 00:49

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 00:49
I have read and researched a lot about this subject.
It’s an individual decision which way to go because there are so many opinions (professional and private) out there.
I have a 2012 BT50 , I asked the head mechanic and the spare parts guy (separately) at my local dealership what micron the Mazda filter was, and both said they thought 30 micron. I had also put the question to Mazda online, took them a couple of weeks to get back to me, but their answer was 10 micron.
I have been using Ryco filters anyway. Years ago a mechanic friend of I mine told me Ryco were finer than most OE filters.
Asked Ryco what micron their filter is rated at , they say 5 micron. So I figure being finer and changed regular and with water sensor etc. it’s not justifiable to do anything else.
So my advice is get the micron info on your OE filter , and check out Ryco or other aftermarket filters. No need to spend the money on a second filter or trying to work out which side of the OE to put it.
Simple really!
Cheers all
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Follow Up By: Hewy54 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 07:39

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 07:39
I have a 2013 BT50
I have read lots about tyre size, catch cans, EGR blanking etc and people have a variety of opinions.
Putting in a second fuel filter seems to be the one thing that most agree on.
DO IT.
The only choice is to go pre or post.
I went for a 30 micron pre as it will get rid of the larger crap and the water before it hits the factory filter.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 10:44

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 10:44
Shane R1
It just goes to show asking dealer representatives about any technical subject will result in rubbish info or lies and unthruths.
Absolutely NO manufacturers of CRD engine uses a fuel filter micron size larger than 5 microns. The fuel system would disembowel itself in a very short time if they did.
So the Mazda online one cannot be true either.
Please don't believe what people in the trade tell you, nearly ALL of them have little or nil practical understanding of it and simply say something which you want to hear.
Talk to filter manufacturers, ie Donaldson, they make filters it is their business, they KNOW.
Having a pre filter to reduce the contaminant load going to a main filter is a PROVEN idea. People who dismiss the idea as unnecessary are sticking their head in the sand where it is dark.
Trucks which want reliability have graduated filtering getting progressively smaller so the CRD system is protected. An easy to understand concept I reckon.
As you say, Simple Really. but different to what you thing is simple really.
You appear to know little about it but are telling people not to fit additional filters.
So you know more about filtering than earthmoving and trucking has known for more than 80 years?
Anyone who claims to have done their research and doesn't know this fact hasn't researched much at all and obviously believe anything they read without thinking .
Some diesel experts are the worst for recommendations.
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 13:57

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 13:57
G’day RMD
I’ve asked questions and researched about fuel filtering, and made my decision to just run with the standard filter system but will run Ryco filters.
Sort of agree with maybe having a pre filter, but if these were important on these vehicles wouldn’t the manufacturer fit one?
Where do you find your info ? You seem pretty sure of your facts.
If asking the people at the dealership and putting the question to Mazda doesn’t get the answer where can it be found?

Cheers
Shane
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Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 14:48

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 14:48
Shane R1

While Ryco seem ok, I never use them, I just don't consider them high quality.
That is personal preference, I use Sakura filters and also Donaldson filters on my Dmax.
I did fit a 11 micron pre filter to it to stop the main filter becoming suddely overloaded with rubbish. If you ever get small stuff in the tank it will accumulate quickly on the main filter, whereas with a pre of graduated size it will greatly assist the distrubution of particle sizes. All filters must have more than ample flow rate anyway. Silly if they don't have it.
Manufacturers make vehicles to a PRICE and disaster/meltdown rates, not much else. Fix 'em under warranty if you, have to/forced to, is the motto.The majority of vehicles in normal use, will get past the warranty period, that is ALL a manufacturer considers, while owners may want life out of it for far longer. No the maker won't fit an aux filter to one.
They will in an expensive truck or earthmoving vehicle where the engine alone costs more than a BT50. I used to repair rebuild both large and small engines as part of my job.
Almost all persons in 4wD sales have no idea, they are sales oriented and have no mechanical training much at all. I laugh at what is printed in 4WD mags.

While some people may be knowledgeable most in the motor industry are not, I used to teach mechanics, around 10% of apprentices could understand tech stuff the others didn't rate highly. Many of those become service advisors in dealerships I have found because they are pretty useless at mechanics, better at conning people though.

If you want to find out about filters, ring/contact Donaldson, filters are their business and has been for as long as I can remember. They know what is required. I think they are experts in their field.

Get a large coffee mug and look at the area of the top rim, call that 30 micron, now look at 50cent piece, that area is around 10/11 micron size , BIG opening area difference isn't there?
Now get 5 cents and look at it's area, that is around 5 micron size by comparison to the 50c and the mug. Having something in between the mug and the 5 cents is a good idea to gradually filter fuel.
Although some diesel places want to fit a small micron filter after the main, ie, engine side, if it blocks, on most vehicles it negates any restrictions warning devices. I stuns me to think diesel experts(while the small is good in theory) will happily fit that way. If the system fails you are somewhere else aren't you, not at their door.
Having done a motor mechanic apprenticeship, senior motor mechanic, Agrade Motor Mechanic/Automotive engineer, Grad dip in App Science/Technology, Automotive Technician certification and worked on small (chainsaws) to large (Dozers and earthmoving) vehicle and engines you tend to understand some aspects of the industry, hopefully more than most.
Cheers
RMD
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 20:21

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 20:21
Hi RMD
You didn’t answer where you get your information ( re: micron ratings especially)
if Mazda can’t answer a question about their own product who can.
Does anyone check micron ratings of filters?
And check this link out about Donaldson https://youtu.be/9MEwpfCMA_s
So which manufacturers can you trust?
I thought Donaldson were good to but now I wonder.
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 21:11

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 21:11
RMD,

You said: Absolutely NO manufacturers of CRD engine uses a fuel filter micron size larger than 5 microns.

Have a look here:

Toyota Fuel Filters

This photo is from that page.





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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Wednesday, Apr 11, 2018 at 20:56

Wednesday, Apr 11, 2018 at 20:56
Hmmmmm........RMD’s gone quiet.

Hey Gone Bush , thanks for adding that

RMD seems very jaded towards the manufacturers, dealers , mechanics, other people’s opinions etc. etc. How can anyone tell if RMD actually is 100% correct?? someone so intolerant of other opinions etc. doesn’t command much respect from anyone else.
Well that’s my opinion anyway.
Cheers
Shane
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Reply By: Member - jb2211 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 15:57

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 15:57
Many thanks for all those interesting replies - it seems to be a complex issue!
Your feedback is much appreciated, & has given me lots of food for thought.
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 20:34

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 20:34
Yeah it’s mind boggling isn’t it. Hard to work out .
Are the aftermarket sellers just out for our dollars?
Cheers
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Reply By: Sigmund - Thursday, Apr 12, 2018 at 05:08

Thursday, Apr 12, 2018 at 05:08
What warnings can the LC issue?

My wagon will warn of the flow rate declining because of filter clogging and it warns of water. I carry a spare filter for the first and just need to open the drain tap for the second. A prefilter isn't necessary.
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Follow Up By: Member - MarkWoodward - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 18:20

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 18:20
Hi all,
Am about to buy a 200 so can I take away from this that the fuel filter is 10 micron and alerts when it detects water? So no need for a Water Watch? It was going to be one of the first things I added along with a catch can.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 20:00

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 20:00
The advantage I see with a Water Watch, Mark, is that it can be positioned immediately after the changeover fuel solenoids, thereby giving earlier warning than the OEM filter.

Considering the high cost of a fuel system repair, any early warning system would be beneficial.

Bob

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Follow Up By: Member - MarkWoodward - Monday, Apr 23, 2018 at 11:29

Monday, Apr 23, 2018 at 11:29
thanks Bob,
I'm struggling with the diesel/Petrol decision at the moment. I love the torque of the diesel but there's many issues to consider as Allan Whiting points out.

Diesel Future Under A Cloud

My brother (a petrol 80 series driver) has also been saying this for years. Diesels are becoming more complicated than Petrols.

cheers,

--
Mark
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Reply By: Sigmund - Saturday, Apr 14, 2018 at 04:29

Saturday, Apr 14, 2018 at 04:29
Reports of contamination are rare but it does happen. I note Allan Whiting says he'll never buy another diesel.

You can ask when the last storage tank fill was and what was left before the fill. Eg Tilmouth Well doesn't go below 5000 l.

Don't forget fuel is the lifeblood of these communities. The biggest reason for the community store manager to avoid problems is right on the doorstep.

I've never had one - Papunya, Yuendemu, Kiwirrkurra, Punmu. And Tilmouth Well.
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Follow Up By: Member - jb2211 - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:17

Tuesday, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:17
Thanks for that reassurance, Sigmund - that is good to hear!
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