Bone Man near Merty Merty in the Strezlecki

Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 12:04
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What difference 3 years and stupid people make. This was Bone man in 2015, and again in 2018. Do not understand the stupidity of some people.


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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 13:02

Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 13:02
People think it smart to dress up termite mounds, why would this be any different.

Someone once commented the termite mounds are fun and provide entertainment on trips, maybe when they are new, unfortunately the ones that dress them up don't come back and remove the mess when it starts breaking down, I just see this as another form of graffiti and there's already way to much of that around.

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Reply By: Phil B (WA) - Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 13:30

Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 13:30
I dont see it as stupid - just a bit of harmless amusement.

There is a lot of difference between
‘Human Being’ and ‘Being Human’.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 14:10

Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 14:10
The “harmless amusement” has caused irreparable damage to this sculpture. It stood for several years before stupid people decided it would be “fun” to deface this sculpture. As has been already stated it is just as bad as someone “graffitiing” a work of art or sculpture.


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Follow Up By: Phil B (WA) - Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 14:32

Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 14:32
Now that you've said
"... has caused irreparable damage to this sculpture. It stood for several years before stupid people decided it would be “fun” to deface this sculpture."

I agree with you, now that you've provided more info, I took it that it had been repaired.
There is a lot of difference between
‘Human Being’ and ‘Being Human’.

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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 14:50

Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 14:50
One wonders why someone would want to make it in the first place and for it be called a sculpture!
If it wasn't there at all it would enhance the area.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 20:45

Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 20:45
I see it as a bit of outback fun rather than a sculpture.
That man had too many joints to be taken seriously!
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Follow Up By: Joe Fury - Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 22:52

Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 22:52
G'day Adventurers

I am quite open minded when it comes to 'bush sculptures' as such, as some are actually thought provoking even poignant but most don't often stand the test of time, oddly many people get rather miffed when someone (stupid people) come along and alter or deface the so called sculpture, yet there are those among us who simply don't feel any angst at all when it comes to the out right destruction going on in the guise of 'wealth creation and jobs' to quote our political leaders, this destruction is irreversible and it's going on here in the Pilbara 24/7

Something to ponder ~ Fortescue Metals Group has just celebrated the shipping of it's first BILLION tonnes of iron ore ~ that's one thousand million tonnes of the Pilbara gone forever.

How's that Folks, one billion tonnes of Australia shipped to Asia by a company that's only been in existence for 15 years and just 10 of those years ago it shipped the first ship load to Asia.

Funny how I actually don't feel overly 'miffed' at all when it comes to bush sculpture vandalism.

Safe travels : Joe Fury

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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 07:30

Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 07:30
There's no answer to that Joe. We can't maintain our current civilization without raping the environment. If you don't sell it the money dries up and people start hurting. Governments with any environmental conscience at all get kicked out. Political party's with environmental goals get slammed as incompetent loonies. Never stand between billionaire individuals or corporations and their money. It's a future generation's problem.
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 07:57

Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 07:57
I worked on the construction of the rail for that mine and the destruction was soul destroying.
When the dozers would push a track into a new section for the surveyers it would be past some of the most breath taking rock formations I have ever seen and where they were not many people would have seen them. the following days they had blue crosses painted on them then drilled and blasted then picked up and moved to form artificial hills in some sort of token gesture stipulated by the traditional owners to make amense for selling off their ever so valuable sacred land(till some dollars were waved under their noses).

I only lasted 6 months seeing this happen before I left but it was the highest paying job I have ever had but the guilt was not worth it.

The amount of money these mining companies throw around to get what they want is incomprehendable, govrnments are controlled by the mines.

Sorry to get a bit side tracked but my message is this, enjoy what is out there while it lasts, if anyone finds something worth something and believe it, it has been found, just waiting for the price to be right, vast areas of our outback will be raped, if a little fun dressing up a sculpture that shouldn't have been there in the first place upsets you don't ever fly over the Pilbara, it is going to kill you.
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 09:30

Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 09:30
Couldn't agree more with what qldcamper says. Evidence of it everywhere. Surveyors move in followed by dozers to push up pads for drills to sit on while they extract core or chip samples.
Camps are set up for the men and shit is everywhere.
No one ever goes back to tidy up as that would cost money.
Go to Mitchell Falls or the Bungle Bungles and listen to the horrendous noise of choppers and planes taking tourists to the see the sights. Sniff the dust they create while you're about it.
Students in the Bungles a few years ago asked me and others what we thought of the "aboriginality" of the place......
They didn't like my answer that anything goes as long as there's plenty of lovely money attached.
Who cares about a few old bones? Certainly not me but I do care about the complete destruction of the country.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 11:18

Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 11:18
The scary parts about the massive raping of Australia's basic commodity reserves by multi-national, global corporations, and robber barons, is the following things.

1. When the Pilbara iron ore reserves were first assessed by highly experienced American geologists in the late 1950's, they calculated that those reserves "contained enough hematite and other high grade iron ores, to supply the entire worlds needs for over 300 years".

However, what those Americans couldn't foresee was the ability of American industry to produce massive upsizes in machinery, that increased annual production rates of iron ore, to levels that are absolutely mind-boggling.

As a result, those iron ore reserves are forecast to be mined out within 30 to 40 years.
The economic downturn that occurs from the last of our commodity reserves being mined out, will make the Great Depression look like a Sunday picnic.

2. The only people gaining huge wealth from the mining of our commodity reserves are;
A: Already-wealthy international shareholders, brokers and the finance and banking community.
B. American and even European industry, as it provides ever-larger mining equipment.
C. Oil companies and shipping line owners.

There is no "National Sovereign Wealth Fund" from Australian commodity mining in place for the Australian people - as Norway does with its national oil income.

The Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund is one of the largest Funds in the world and guarantees future income, and standards-of-living protection, for every Norwegian, in future decades.
Australians will be left to their own devices, to keep up reasonable living standards, within 30 to 40 years.

3. Robber barons are still alive and well in the 21st century, thanks to the greed of the Hancock and Wright families, and the Govts utter stupidity in not disallowing these families 2.5% royalty on Rio Tinto iron ore production, that lasts into perpetuity, and which will see these families eventually become wealthier than Nubar Gulbenkian.

For those who are puzzled at the Gulbenkian name, Gulbenkian simply became one of the richest men in the world, by being the middle man in multiple Arab oil well deals, whereby he claimed 5% of all oil production monies from those wells.

His cash flow exceeded the GDP of many countries - and he effectively shafted many millions of Arabs out of their commodity wealth, to which they should have been entitled.
The Hancocks and Wrights are doing exactly the same to millions of Australians.

4. Our "dirt-cheap" iron ore is being utilised to build up an industrialised China on a scale the world has never before seen.

Unfortunately, I believe that China is not our friend, and we will live to regret that industrialised buildup, that we have provided to them at rock-bottom price levels.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Joe Fury - Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 11:32

Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 11:32
G'day Adventurers

Firstly, McLaren3030 ~ I apologize for stealing your 'Bone Man' thread it is not my intent to diminish the importance of your post at all, I might not have come across as being sensitive regarding the destruction/alteration and the disbelief you tried to convey in your initial post, no malice was intended.

Michael H9, I can't disagree with anything you say at all, it's just a crying shame the political system as such is so controlled by the shiny suits at the 'Top End of Town'

I've witnessed Ministerial delegations and dignitaries being buttered up and glad handed by various mining organizations, just because the Minister signed off on a mega dollar mining project, if 'Bull$h1t' could be sugar coated and sold as something sweet and wonderful this is it.

There's much to be said regarding Indigenous folk and agreements when it comes to a mining organization gaining access to their land, but I'd be inviting something very unpalatable into this thread and I know I'd be slammed mercilessly ~ possibly moderated.

qldcamper, I am somewhat sympathetic towards you for sharing your feelings of sadness and guilt regarding you first hand experience in the mining industry here in the Pilbara, like many the lure of big bucks tends to numb the reality of modern day mining, I can't and don't blame anyone who want's to earn a quid even if it comes to working in an industry that simply deconstructs the ancient geological features of the Pilbara. Sadly it's a feeling you will have to live with forever, and anyone who has an ounce of true connection with the Pilbara feels exactly the same, quite simply the Pilbara never leaves you.

Alan TH ~ your words ring true and apply fully to what's going on here in the Pilbara.

Sadly for one young bloke from South Hedland he lost his life in the murky waters of an 'abandoned' iron ore mine, on a recent public holiday long weekend this mine was fully operational and earning big bucks for it's shareholders, the government and every other hanger on'erer during the so called mining boom just a few years back, but stuff it all there is never any money to rehabilitate or make safe an abandoned mine, I shudder to think of the horrible legacy being bestowed on the coming generations.

I'll go and put my old mine issue safety gear on, because I feel a veritable kicking coming.

Safe travels : Joe Fury

qldcamper these images are just to remind you and because I can.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Friday, May 04, 2018 at 10:38

Friday, May 04, 2018 at 10:38
Hi Joe, No problem, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on such things. I see it as two separate issues, the one you spoke of is something entirely different and somewhat disturbing. Whilst I am against environmental vandalism, I am not sure what the answer is, as in order to "mine" the ore/minerals for the things we need as a society, we need to dig them up. Similar to the sand mining that took place in the Bundjalung National Park on the north coast of NSW in the early 70's.

What annoyed me with Bone Man, was the amount of damage that has been caused by people climbing the sculpture in order to "decorate" it. There are plenty examples of people "decorating" trees along bush roads & highways, and while some people see this as "harmless fun", I am extremely disappointed to see the damage that was caused to this sculpture.


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Follow Up By: Joe Fury - Friday, May 04, 2018 at 12:19

Friday, May 04, 2018 at 12:19
G'day Macca

Thanks for your feed back, I understand and appreciate the distinct differences in how we see things regarding vandalism, be that on a structure such as the Bone Man, or even a suburban home's side fence by some clot spray painting it with a 'tag'. This is mindless crap perpetrated by 'Stupid People' ~ but it's repairable.

This sort of stupid stuff won't affect mankind in the truest sense it's just upsetting to know that 'stupid people do stupid things'

The point I tried to make with my initial response was how we ( society) seem to value then react to an issue that might affect us.

I've been around for a long while now, worked in and on some fairly large construction and mega mining projects across Australia, there are actually a hand full of these projects that give me a sense of pride or a feeling that's personally satisfying because I helped make life better, these projects though destructive initially prove to be 'worthwhile'

Dartmouth Dam - Victoria
Thompson River Dam - Victoria
Sugarloaf Dam - Victoria
Burdekin Dam - Queensland
Pioneer River Dam - Mackay Queensland

These are just a few of 'feel good' jobs, I've been back to a couple over the past decades, enjoyed the views, the families having a picnic at the open areas of the facility, hell I even had a smile on my face thinking I helped make this happen.

Fast forward to the Pilbara the present, there is a systematic 'deconstruction' of land and landforms going on and its seemingly unstoppable, yes there is wealth for all the buggers involved in this mining of resources, be they Philanthropic mining company owners, Politicians, Multinational Companies, Directors, construction companies, small town service providers or even the Minions who slug it away on soul/family/life destroying highly paid shift rosters ~ yes they are all winners.

But in the end we all lose.

I am not against mining, I am simply staggered at the insidious spread of mining here in the Pilbara and I feel ashamed to have helped this happen.

Safe travels : Joe Fury
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Saturday, May 05, 2018 at 09:54

Saturday, May 05, 2018 at 09:54
So I assume none of the people agreeing with the comments about the “raping” of the environment by the mining of iron ore (or anything else) drive four wheel drives made of steel or drive them over bridges made of ... steel. Or ever catch a [steel] train which operates on railway lines made of ... steel. Or ever buy anything that’s ever been transported on the aforementioned trains, or by trucks made of ... steel driving across the aforementioned [steel] bridges.

Please! Give me a break. Of Australia’s 3 million square miles much less than 1% is disturbed by mining or it’s associated infrastructure. Indeed the land area disturbed by housing in Australia massively dwarfs that by mining, so let’s please retain some perspective.

And for those concerned about diminishing mineral reserves, remember well under 5% of the Earth’s land area has been seriously explored for minerals. The more we explore the more we find. Even here in a place like Kalgoorlie, where every inch of it has been explored relentlessly and repeatedly for the past 125 years, we are still finding new deposits due to better exploration techniques and improved geo-science technology.

There are things that actually matter out there for us to apply our considerable intellects to.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, May 05, 2018 at 10:51

Saturday, May 05, 2018 at 10:51

I have to agree with you Paul.

Back in the Sixties, bumper stickers declaring "STOP MINING" were prevalent.
I speculated then if the car owners had regard to what material the stickers were mounted on.

There are many matters worth considering in our relentless progress on this planet. Of the destructive items, I would consider resource mining to be minor compared to the effects of forest destruction, population growth, and befouling of our atmosphere.

Certainly, metalliferous mining excavation is dramatic to the eye but does little to threaten human existence. As is coal mining, but it is the combustion of the bloody stuff that is so harmfull.

And when we exhaust our hydrocarbon deposits (oil and gas) by using them as fuel, there will be little feedstock for 'plastics', but at least that will put an end to environmentally harmful packaging.

The salient point is that humans cannot progressively occupy this planet, or any other for that matter, without transforming it. The trick we need to learn is to do so in a renewable manner.


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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 09:04

Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 09:04
Paul, what you have said can not be argued with, just as you cant argue with the fact that if man kind lasts another thousand years (which is pretty doubtful) that 1% would have grown considerably.

I work in mining but have limits to what I can consider personally acceptable, don't seem to mind working in an established mine site but couldn't handle being part of the first hand crew of destruction. I have also turned down a cushy little number at Roxby because I didn't want to become hypoctytical like the government, not ok to use nuclear energy but ok to sell the fuel for it so other countries can use it.
My last job was at an even more useless industry, gem stones, no practical use what so ever other than a status symbol, but yes, my wife does wear jewellery.

Allan, I believe our atmosphere will be toxic well before we run out of fossil fuels, just my opinion.

There are bigger threats to our survival than any of this, look at genetics, how many families do you know that have had no minor or major genetic defects? This is a problem that is pyramiding and will naturally cull our numbers.

Anyway this is bordering on politics but an interesting group of views that would be a great night round a camp fire.

Greed runs this planet, not consideration for the future.

Long live bone man, he may well be the last man standing.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 09:24

Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 09:24
Advertisements will get us in the end....we'll all get that cheesed off there will be mass suicides. If one more ad with an install me tag overlays this site on my phone so that I can barely see the content then something is going to snap...
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 12:07

Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 12:07
Hi Joe, You have every right to proud of the projects that you have worked on.


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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 13:40

Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 13:40
I don't have a problem with mining - I've been a gold mine owner, a gold producer, a mining contractor, carried out around 2M tonnes of gold tailings retreatment, and worked for hundreds of mining companies, including some sizeable and well known names.

What I do detest is the entry of global corporation greed and ruthlessness into mining. The attitude of take everything, on an ever-increasing scale of resource removal, for the benefit of a select few.
Our raw resources are finite, they are not endless.

A recent article quoted Ambrose Bierce, the American writer, with regard to his opinion of corporations ...

"Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility."

Nothing ever spoken about global corporations comes closer to the truth than Ambrose Bierces quote - and that quote is from the late 1800's!

The global corporations are rapacious, and intent on depriving the citizens of the countries they operate in, of their rightful share of their natural resources and profits.

They have the funding to do what they like, and their budgets are often larger than many small countries GDP's.
They curry favour with those in power, who become enamoured with being associated with the power and impressiveness of the global corporations.

America has anti-trust and monopoly laws, but we don't, which I consider a serious failing within our countrys management.

Global corporations aims are total domination of resources, markets, and countries.
The currently-planned merger of Bayer and Monsanto is typical of the global corporations aims - own virtually everything and control virtually everything.
What they don't own, they can still control, because of their sheer size and domination.

These global corporations exist for one reason and one reason alone - to serve the corporations interests and excessively reward those who manage it and invest in it.
Their responsibility to environmental issues is merely lip-service responsibility, aided by poor legislation.
One only has to see the episodes where corporations have folded and left no provision for minesite rehabilitation - yet individual miners will be chased to the end of the Earth by Govts, to ensure rehabilitation funding.

I'm no greenie, but our leaders need to step up and take better control of mining rehabilitation, and ensure adequate, untouchable rehab funding, and that satisfactory mine closure plans are in place, prior to allowing global corporate miners to run rampant.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Joe Fury - Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 17:43

Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 17:43
G'day Adventurers

Paul B and Allan B ~ I understand and also appreciate your views on mining and all the benefits a strong economy allows us mere mortals to own and use infrastructure wise, yes I too drive a vehicle made of steel and I drive it through out the North West but I actually live in the Pilbara, so I brazenly drive on every mining exploration track that hasn't got an armed guard at the gate.

I thank the exploration and mining companies for push hundreds of kilometres of tracks into place that possibly no modern human being has accessed before the miners were given the go ahead to search for what ever mineral is in favour at the time.

I absolutely revel in being at a pristine waterhole watching the yet decimated wildlife coming in for a drink at the end of a typical Pilbara day, most of these critters know, or show no real fear of one old bloke just being there, they are not worried that I drive a Toyota Land Cruiser that's made of steel ~ so I guess I am plain lucky at that point in time.

Sad thing though, these critters have everything to fear and lose once the Surveyors and associated machinery comes in to 'establish' what will become just another mine.

On the flip side of seeing something magnificent for (my) first time is the thought that you blokes won't ever get to see it at all.

Gentlemen, so the next time your'e travelling through the inland Pilbara on a GPS heading to a position showing a waterhole or a significant land form, you might get a shock because it may already be in the 'deconstruction' phase or not exist at all, you may give a thought to what you have missed out on seeing, possibly you may feel good about seeing a massive excavator loading a huge dump truck that's driven by some one in a far off city 'autonomously'

The images show Mount Robinson from a point in the Hamersley Range, the first scene is from 2006, with little in the fore ground, the sign needs no explanation, last image was from a couple of weeks ago, this is infrastructure associated with the sign owners mine expansions.

Safe travels : Joe Fury

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Reply By: DiggZ - Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 08:41

Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 08:41
If it was meant to be art why put it right beside a road and not expect it to be altered. I'd call it 3D graffiti and a bit of fun.
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Reply By: Iza B - Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 14:02

Thursday, May 03, 2018 at 14:02
A lot of fuss about not much. No rule stopping others joining in, is there?

What happened to the sign originally fixed to the post?

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Reply By: tim_c - Friday, May 04, 2018 at 11:04

Friday, May 04, 2018 at 11:04
I'd have to ask on what grounds you consider it acceptable (or even a positive contribution) to assemble a Bone Man statue in the outback, but not acceptable to add clothes to said Bone Man? Surely in the broad scheme of things, it's fairly harmless fun to add a few clothes to a statue, isn't it? I think you'll find that clothing would break down reasonably quickly out there in the sun and wind, and as long as people haven't damaged the statue itself in trying to add clothing, has any actual harm really been done?

If you think about it completely unemotionally, most outback sculptures are essentially piles of discarded rubbish that has been gathered and artistically assembled (I'm thinking particularly of the sculptures along the Oodnadatta Track near William Creek) - some of them will draw a chuckle from passing travellers but at any rate, they often serve as little breaks in the boredom of a fairly featureless landscape. I can see that, for some, adding clothes to a statue also serves to break up the boredom (not that I have done it, or would advocate it, but I'm not going to get too upset about others doing it - noting your concern, I trust you have removed the clothing from the statue because having clothes on a statue will encourage others to add more pieces - refer Broken Windows Syndrome, though you'll also see this when people put padlocks on bridge handrails - once one is there, it encourages others to do the same).

You may consider that sometimes what is one man's art, is another man's graffiti. Most people generally accept that it was fine for people to engrave their names onto Chambers Pillar 150 years back, and that this now forms a part of history, but not acceptable for people today to do the same thing, and it's assumed that names carved today won't be viewed as a part of history 150 years from now (yes, I understand it's a very different achievement to arrive at Chambers Pillar on foot 150 years ago compared to arriving today in an air-conditioned Hilux filled with mates and beer, ....and mates filled with beer).

Perhaps a little off-topic, but similarly: what is one man's litter, is another man's history - hear me out, I'm certainly not suggesting that travellers should (or may) leave litter behind! - many would argue that early surveyors should have carried their empty fuel drums out with them, but in another sense these are historical artefacts of those who went there before us in much more difficult circumstances, and in most cases, made it possible for the rest of us to go to these places now. Perhaps when the Ghan was decommissioned, the organisation responsible for it should have likewise removed all of the abandoned infrastructure, but then we would have lost that part of our nation's history.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, May 04, 2018 at 19:02

Friday, May 04, 2018 at 19:02
You aren't allowed to disturb aboriginal rubbish dumps, even walk on them. We'll need signs everywhere soon to tell is which rubbish we have to clean up and which rubbish we aren't allowed to clean up. Rubbish classification might be a new vocation in the future? Or maybe if you get caught littering you can just say you're an artist and it's your latest creation? Imagine that.....Poo Tickets by Fred Van Gogh. :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 12:22

Sunday, May 06, 2018 at 12:22
No, I did not remove the clothing as it was either "cable tied" or "wired" on, and as the structure is already fragile owing to the "decorations", I did not want to damage it any further. As can bee seen by the photo below, a large section, almost 1.5 m long has already been "knocked off" the sculpture. This is not "harmless fun". As I stated earlier, I do not have a problem with people decorating trees with clothing, foot ware, bags etc. as long as they are not damaging the tree in the process, but this is different.

As for the sculptures along the Oodnadatta Track that was mentioned, I agree, they do break up the drive, as most people will get out and have a look. However, no-one has "decorated" these sculptures with items of clothing.


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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, May 08, 2018 at 20:51

Tuesday, May 08, 2018 at 20:51
I wondered why the mountains of VB vans were left undisturbed around Doomadgee!
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Reply By: Bazooka - Monday, May 07, 2018 at 22:59

Monday, May 07, 2018 at 22:59
Reminds me a little of the "desecration" of Pooh Corner on the Clyde Mountain near Bateman's Bay Macca. It was loved to death and instead of being the understated gem which delighted kids it became a repository for all manner of adult-inspired fluffy toys and other cheap and nasty decoration. The simple, understated original idea became a loud and gaudy dumping ground and no doubt most of those who made it that way had no concept of what they were doing in buggering it up. In some places it's what is known as "progress".
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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, May 08, 2018 at 07:55

Tuesday, May 08, 2018 at 07:55
A bit disappointed that this post has been turned into an Environmental bandwagon. That was certainly not my intention. While I understand and appreciate the importance of such matters, it would have been better had those posting about these issues started a seperate thread.


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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, May 08, 2018 at 09:03

Tuesday, May 08, 2018 at 09:03
You are right Macca. But it is the nature of this (and maybe all) forums. The subject invariably veers off on related(?) subjects even though they do not fall within the constraints of the 'Forum Rules'.

If this "environmental" subject were raised as a discrete thread it would doubtless be pounced upon by the moderators as being 'Off Topic'.


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