Emergency Brake Assist and Towing on Gravel
Submitted: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 10:09
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Member - J&A&KK
We had a bit of a fright recently when towing on a a very corrugated road in the Northern Flinders.
At around 60kph, on a long left hand sweeping corner, very corrugated, a roo decided to cross the road. Instinct was to put the foot on the brake quickly. Not stamp on the brake just get ready to brake. The Prado EBA decided it was an emergency and took over the braking. Foot came off the brake fast as the car went straight ahead and the van tried to pass us.
All under control again after a few ugly wriggles from the van when it’s right hand wheel entered the deep gravel on the side of the road. Thank goodness we had the road to ourselves as I used all of it to get things straightened out.
On our return to
Perth I asked The Toyota Dealer if the EBA can be turned off. Whilst it may be able to be turned off (don’t know) Toyota will not allow it to be turned off.
Experience shows that brakes can be your worst enemy on poor dirt roads. Human instinct is to brake in the event of a sudden potential impact. Put the two together with EBA in play, as in our case, resulted in an interesting event that would never have occurred without the EBA intervention.
Cheers
John
Reply By: RMD - Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 12:12
Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 12:12
J&A&KK
Not sure if the same system as is used or called the same, but with earlier Corolla vehicles and most new vehicles they have a Brake Assist feature built into the actual vacuum booster valving. As you brake it initially appplies more boost than you need and give a more quick application of the vacuum boosted system.
Even so, the brakes lights would have been activated and the electric brakes on the caravan should have begun operation and kept it stable.
Maybe the controller is not solidy attached to the vehicle and flaps around when under the effects of corrugation and not able to sense the vehicle decelleration correctly OR the trailer brakes are set with insufficient initial braking. If the caravan braked all should keep in line to a reasonable extent.
The above is different to ABS operation, which as mentioned above may not work
well in offroad conditions. Even then the trailer should begin to brake, is your manual override of the controller handy to reach? It is those instances when it comes in very uselful.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: bobsabobsa - Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 14:50
Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 14:50
Yes scares the sh=it out of you it is Not ABS or stability control it is a whole different thing
Quote from Wikipedia
"Overview
Many drivers are not prepared for the relatively high efforts required for maximum braking, nor are they prepared for the "buzzing"
feedback through the brake pedal during ABS operation. If an emergency develops, a slow reaction and less than maximum braking input could result in insufficient time or distance to stop before an accident occurs.
EBA is designed to detect such "panic stops" and apply maximum braking effort within milliseconds. It interprets braking behaviour by assessing the rate that the brake pedal is activated.
If the system identifies an emergency, it automatically initiates full braking more quickly than any driver can move his or her foot. Emergency stopping distances can be shortened, reducing the likelihood of accidents – especially the common "nose-to-tail" incident.
An electronic system designed to recognise emergency braking operation and automatically enhance braking effort improves vehicle and occupant safety, and can reduce stopping distances by up to 70 ft (21 m) at 125 mph (201 km/h)[2]
Brake Assist detects circumstances in which emergency braking is required by measuring the speed with which the brake pedal is depressed. Some systems additionally take into account the rapidity of which the accelerator pedal is released, pre-tensioning the brakes when a "panic release" of the accelerator pedal is noted. When panic braking is detected, the Brake Assist system automatically develops maximum brake boost in order to mitigate a driver's tendency to brake without enough force. In doing so, Brake Assist has been shown to reduce stopping distance by a significant margin (up to 20% in some studies)" end quote....
I had it on my Prado 2013 one mongrel thing .. if you hit the brakes a bit quick it thinks you are in a actual emergency and applies brute force , you nearly get
seat belt burn
The 200 series is the same
I sold my prado and when back to the 100 series
I feel your pain
John
cheers Bob
ps when it goes into this mode the brake lights flash to warn other drivers
AnswerID:
618755
Follow Up By: Member - J&A&KK - Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 16:04
Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 16:04
Bob
Thanks for all the info.
As I understand it, the brake assist software measures the time difference between you taking your foot off the accelerator and putting it on the brake. If this time difference is less than a certain threshold the BA leaps into action. It definitely stayed on for a while after my foot was off the brake.
The ABS did activate but it appears that the deep corrugations caught it out as we definitely went straight on for a short time.
I have driven hundreds of thousands of kms on dirt roads usually towing a heavily laden dual axle trailer. I am
well aware of the dangers of inappropriate braking and try to stay off the brakes as a matter of course. In the instance previously described the rig behaviour wasn’t such a drama and was controlled. However it was definitely a what the f*** moment.
Lesson learnt is now to “dwell a little” between lifting off the gas and applying the brake. Though it will be so hard to overcome the instincts.
Cheers
John
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Reply By: Member - J&A&KK - Friday, May 11, 2018 at 18:36
Friday, May 11, 2018 at 18:36
Appreciate the comments from everyone.
Howard(ACT) suggested to try left foot braking to
check if the EBA would activate.
So I tried that today on a number of occasions starting at 40 kph all the way to 100. At no time did the EBA activate. So a good suggestion Howard.
Now I have to train the brain to use the left foot for braking, even under “ instinctive emergency conditions”. Not sure how that will go. Most likely cause an accident whilst practising.
Cheers
John
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Kenell - Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 12:14
Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 12:14
John,
Just put your shoes on the opposite feet, try the exercise again, and report back please.
Ken
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