Dealer Servicing!!

Submitted: Friday, Jun 01, 2018 at 22:24
ThreadID: 136792 Views:2925 Replies:16 FollowUps:37
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I'm not mentioning Names or vehicle brand, but when you know there's a horrible noise in the front left wheel of your vehicle, and tell the service manager it sounds like wheel bearings,or cv joints, andyou get a blank look like your some kind of moron!!, and are told to leave vehicle and it will be sorted,only to come back in 5hrs and to be told vehicle has been road tested nothing wrong with it!, here's the keys Back!!!.....IS This the result of computer generated mechanics that have very little knowledge of mechanical issues and noises and totally rely on complete mechanical failure until they can see whats wrong,,,,a dangerous situation i think.

Back to my own servicing, Bad back , vertigo, and everything else.

Cheers Axle.....With the Chits.
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Reply By: KiwiAngler - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 00:12

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 00:12
Did you ask for the mechanic to come with you so he could hear the noise?

Was the noise still there when you drive out the gate?

Is the noise there all the time or only when certain conditions are in play ?
AnswerID: 619292

Follow Up By: axle - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 09:32

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 09:32
They went around the block with it and could hear the noise, so they put it back up on the hoist and had another look and fiddle, only to be none the wiser. Ihad it booked in for 8am and 4pm i was still sitting in the reception smoke coming out my ears. How ever they did start to think along the line of wheel bearing and booked it in 3days down the track as they wanted to put genuine parts in, which by the way weren't in stock. Why they didn't pull a hub off and inspect has me gobsmacked. and this is a hi profile dealer i'm talking about here.

All is fixed now by another dealer a hundred mtrs up the road, I couldn't stand the thought of the other idiots working on it, so took it elsewear . Turned out both front wheel bearings were worn one ready to collapse, you could spin the wheel while it was on the hoist but the noise wasn't really there until the weight was on it, All about experience i'm afraid and some of these turkeys have none!

Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 10:14

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 10:14
"All is fixed now by another dealer a hundred mtrs up the road"

So Axle, Dealers were not actually involved - Same brand dealerships are not located that close to each other.

So are we taking independent specialists rather than dealers?
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 11:34

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 11:34
Sounds like a dealership I go to now and again. No matter what location they always make you feel like their doing you a favour by looking at your vehicle.
On the last service paperwork one of the items was " Change service sticker on windscreen ".
Why not go independent?
Had to threaten to send a tow truck to pick it up if not fixed by next week.Made me a bit wary.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: axle - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 14:42

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 14:42
Hi Garrycol, It wasn't a same brand dealership,



PS... Landrover had nothing to do with it either ...they could not be that pathetic....lol.


Cheers Axle,





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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:42

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:42
So it is not a Landrover, so you had maybe a Ford vehicle and say took it to a Holden dealership and they could not diagnose the issue so you took it too a Subaru dealership who did.

Hmmm Ok
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Jun 05, 2018 at 01:15

Tuesday, Jun 05, 2018 at 01:15
Garrycol a wheel bearing is a wheel bearing...
Unless you drive a horse or a donkey your vehicle will have them as well and you probably could barely tell them apart laying on the bench...
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Reply By: Member - nick b boab - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 00:25

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 00:25
You are 110 % correct.....
You meed to go old school ....
Cheers Nickb

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Reply By: RMD - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 08:07

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 08:07
Axle
If the noise went away by itself it was possibly a stone between the disc rotor and disc tin shield. Has happened twice with my vehicle BUT I had to remove a wheel each time to get the stone out.
Many people want to be mechanics but only around 9% of apprentices are really suited to work in the industry. I did a significant automotive two day test to gain the qualification. Only 4 out of 44 passed the knowledge and practical test which required at least an 80% pass rate in 13 different vehicle systems.
Most have a very poor understanding of electrical/mechanical and electronic concepts. Teaching apprentices is no different. They are all experts when a special plug in device tellls them the problem.
Diagnosis? What is that concept?
AnswerID: 619296

Follow Up By: axle - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 09:45

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 09:45
Hi RMD, I know the noise you mean, wish it had been that lol, as ive stated above it was a wheel bearing problem the sealed one piece bearings make a different noise or seem to when worn, compared to the cup and cone tapered adjustable bearings which get a real rumble up when worn, Anyway as you say theres alot out there that have poor understanding of mechanical issues including workshop managers it seems.

Cheers Axle.


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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 10:59

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 10:59
.
Hi Axle,

I know what you mean!

Several years ago my Camry went in for a dealer service and I requested that they investigate an engine 'hesitation' at steady throttle and light load. At pick-up they recited all the wonderful items they attended to but I needed to ask about the hesitation. "Nope, couldn't find anything" said the service manager. But of course, it was still evident when I drove away!

A couple of weeks later my son's mate who had been an apprentice at that dealer was visiting us. I asked about the problem and he said "Does it make a difference if it's hot or cold". "Nope I said, same all the time".
"EGR valve" he said without any further discussion. I attended to the EGR valve and never had the problem again.

Now, that apprentice had left that dealer because he could not tolerate the foreman's attitude.......... Their loss, and their customers loss, I'm afraid.

On my part, I never returned to the dealership for maintenance services. I found a competent independent shop and continued to take my Camry and later Aurion there even throughout the warranty period. I investigated thoroughly and found that my warranty was not at risk by using independent workshops.

My recommendation is to find an independent workshop that you can trust. Some dealers may be OK but do not assume that they run a good workshop just because they gained endorsement as a dealer. It depends entirely on the management and particularly on the foreman. It is they who select and train good mechanics.


Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: axle - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 14:55

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 14:55
Hi Allen, We moved to a new location after 40yrs at the previous, taken a while to

find out whos what' so to speak, as far as mechanics go. But i'll find one ,i think your correct in what you say in regard to dealers,


Cheers Axle,
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 13:01

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 13:01
Hi Axle

The bonus about living in small country towns, you are not just another number and get to know the technicians personally and just how good or bad they are.

The guy I go to is a one man show and fully trusted by the locals and he has worked on my vehicles since he was an apprentice over 40 years ago. He is that popular, you usually have to book you vehicle in 3 weeks ahead of time and even on a basic service, goes through your vehicle with a fine tooth comb.

A couple of the bigger dealers in town have only younger kids and apprentices what work on your vehicle and do not have the experience to pin point any issues.

The only trouble now is he is talking about retiring in a few years, so just as well there are other trusted and reliable mechanics in town.


Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: axle - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:05

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:05
Hi Stephen, You have been lucky, we moved to a small Coastal town and i'm still finding my way with tradies mechanics etc, I know one thing the local dealer for our brand of vehicle is no longer on my xmas list.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:50

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:50
Hi Axle

I fully appreciate the frustration that you would have through, and it makes you wonder if they gave your job to a young, inexperienced apprentice.

Seeing you are in a small town, ask the locals for recommendations, you might have better luck that way.

All the best and hope you find someone reliable.



Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 16:16

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 16:16
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Stephen (and maybe others),

I wouldn't be too quick to criticise "young inexperienced" apprentices.
A decent lad, given the right supervision, can be more astute and concientious than many older tradesmen who don't give a damn anymore. The young may not know all the answers but can be smart at observing and can refer their observations and suggestions to the supervisor for review.

In my many years of supervision, I have encountered more worn-out, disinterested, lazy tradesmen than deficient apprentices. Give me a good keen apprentice any day.

As I said above, the responsibility lies with the supervising tradesman and foreman to guide and train the apprentice. The rub is, if the tradespeople are of poor quality, then it is probable that the apprentices will not be well trained.

Be aware...... the future lies with the young. Just as it once did with us.



Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 16:20

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 16:20
Hi Allan

Word of wisdom indeed, and like I said, the good part about living in a small town, you know who you can trust.


Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Monday, Jun 04, 2018 at 01:11

Monday, Jun 04, 2018 at 01:11
Stephen, living in a small town can be good and you can find out who is good and who is not, but if you live in a tiny town like I do, you don't get much choice.
We only have one fix it man in town who only works some of the time between Monday and Friday.
Cheers.
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Reply By: Deejay - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:22

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 15:22
I'm curious Axle why you won't name and shame the business in question. By doing so you may be forewarning other car owners in the area and, giving the business a wake up call to improve their service.
AnswerID: 619305

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 17:23

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 17:23
Having just had a brush with the laws of defamation, I would not recommend Axle go there!
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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 22:17

Saturday, Jun 02, 2018 at 22:17
Mechanics of today are merely parts replacers - they hook up the diagnostic computer and wait for the readout so they know which component to replace.

They have no basic diagnostic skills and they are no longer taught them.
They cannot repair any component, as an old-school mechanic can.

This is because the cost of parts to repair components, is always nearly the same cost as buying a complete new component.

I have about 30 starter solenoid kits that I've been trying to sell (for reduction gear starters). I'm struggling to sell them, because anytime a starter solenoid goes "click-click-click", the mechanics and dealers tell you the starter is stuffed and you need a new starter.

Yet, it takes all of half an hour to pull the starter and install the solenoid kit - with minimal mechanical skills - and to save yourself two to three hundred dollars. The solenoid kit sells for $30.

I could relate a couple of hundred stories about dealer and mechanic incompetence, that cost car owners thousands, but the forum message box isn't big enough.

By far the best was my SIL's brother, who owned a Commodore. It kept getting slower and slower, until it wouldn't go over 80kmh.

It was into the country dealer, time after time, until nearly everything but the engine block got replaced. It still wouldn't go over 80kmh.
$3500 later, he takes the Commodore to a big city dealer, who has the mega-dollar diagnostic computer that the country dealer lacked.

10 mins later, back comes the word - the fuel filter INSIDE the fuel tank is blocked! Just over an hour and $200 later, he's back on the road, and the Commodore will do full speed with ease.

You ought to hear his opinion of the local Holden dealer!

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 619318

Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 08:42

Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 08:42
The small town dealer should have checked fuel flow as one of the primary requirements of the engine needs before anything else and no high tech stuff is needed there.

A brain, a battery and some wire to run the pump and check the flow rate.
"Simples".
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 13:40

Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 13:40
It always used to be easy, fuel-spark-air, probably still the same even with computerised electronics.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 14:34

Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 14:34
.
Yep, same thing with humans Shaker................

...........fuel-spark-air......

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: axle - Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 15:52

Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 15:52
Yep its a bugger when you run out of those three Allan!...lol.


Axle,
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 16:11

Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 16:11
Any one of them will do it.
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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 16:19

Sunday, Jun 03, 2018 at 16:19
Everyone is an expert in hindsight or when they aren't actually involved and bloody Mr Google is a bane of all us all. Bloody makes everyone an expert in every trade. I live in a small town and 95% mechanics here are bloody decent at their trade. Dealerships have technicians, there is a difference and even most of those are good .
AnswerID: 619327

Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:37

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:37
Ivan
In the past, a dealer mechanic sent to the factory school, to learn how to fix the common faults in the make of vehicle was called a "factory trained mechanic".
Now some have electronic things which plug into your vehicle and then the bloke doing that is called a technician, not because he is more technically knowledgeable, just using electronic stuff to find the fault.

The % number of mechanics who are savvy with electronics hasn't changed, but the button pushing ability has increased.
My local Fraud dealer has one or two who know what is what, the other "technicians" are dills and shouldn't touch vehicles for reasons of customer safety.
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Reply By: 76lifted - Monday, Jun 04, 2018 at 00:44

Monday, Jun 04, 2018 at 00:44
I have been lucky enough to find a good specialist subaru shop who were willing to work on my vdj76. They investigate every noise and bend over backwards to fit me into thier very busy schedule never had a problem. Just got a front locker fitted and the quality of workmanship and customer service is something a dealer cannot match at all (in my humble opinion) ;)

After 2 bad dealer experiences both relating to wheel bearings am going to stick with the independents

Cheers jed
AnswerID: 619338

Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:26

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:26
76 lifted
Were you present while the locker was fitted? If not you don't really know the workmanship level at all.
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FollowupID: 891667

Reply By: Blown4by - Tuesday, Jun 05, 2018 at 13:06

Tuesday, Jun 05, 2018 at 13:06
Trouble today is many Dealerships don't employ qualified Automotive Mechanics and most 'independents' don't either preferring to employ the cheaper labour sourced from the 457 Visa pool. Most Dealership Service Dept 'meet & greet' personnel including the Service Manager are not qualified Mechanics either but are 'Service Receptionists'. Comments from those working in Dealership Service Depts suggests that some Dealerships book in more vehicles than they can service on certain days and the 'overflow' gets driven in the front door, the windscreen service sticker is changed and the vehicle is returned to the car park.
AnswerID: 619369

Reply By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 09:48

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 09:48
Mate had a noise in the front left on braking after a long gravel section. Dropped it into a Toyota dealer for them to check it out.

Picked it up all fixed, couldn't find anything, they assumed correctly it was probably just a small stone caught between the pad and the disc. Tried the brakes on leaving the dealers and all was well, few hundred meters up the road went to stop and had little brakes. Got out and checked the left front and found a puddle of brake fluid under the wheel. Back to the dealers very slowly and they got annoyed as it was getting near knock off time!

Turned out the apprentice hadn't done up the brake line coupling properly. Question is why would you undo the brake line to check the caliper in the first place?
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AnswerID: 619380

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 11:30

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 11:30
HKB, I guess if there was a stone caught between the rotor & the calliper or the pads, you might have to remove the pads or at least push the pistons back in order to remove the stone. If you are removing pads or pushing the pistons back etc. you need to bleed the brake lines. Begs the question, who is supervising the apprentice? If the dealership is an ISO Accredited business, then they are meant to have procedures in place that would catch this type of mistake.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:24

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:24
Macca
Why do you have to bleed the brakes if new pads are fitted?

It is a must do, periodically, but with new pads yuo may have to drain the master cylinder down to correct level.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 20:02

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 20:02
Stone couldn't have been to big as they didn't find it?

Agree with RMD, simply slip the caliper off to remove the pads and check the disc, might need to compress the piston/s a little to put the caliper back.
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Reply By: Tony T3 - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 10:50

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 10:50
FWIW

I wanted wheel bearings serviced.
Local Toyota dealer quoted $100 per hour, estimated the time involved and the bill, time to pick up the Landruiser.

Came back, vehicle ready, job done., satisfied customer.

Just posting this because I'd been told about dealer rip-offs etc., but this went exactly as expected.

I do basic servicing, but rear bearings beyond this amateur.
AnswerID: 619381

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 11:51

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 11:51
Sounds suspicious, I’d check they actually did do it...??
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 14:04

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 14:04
$100 per hour at a Stealer, must have been years ago.
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Follow Up By: Tony T3 - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:21

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 17:21
Year was 2017, although I'm not sure why I'm bothering to reply.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 20:06

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 20:06
Usually changed the oil myself in my Prado, but needed to get the oil changed at Nhulunbuy, so had to get the local dealer to do it, they actually did a good job and didn't break anything and charge wasn't to bad either:)
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Follow Up By: RMD - Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 17:32

Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 17:32
Tony T3
You bothered to reply because although you were happy enough you don't really know if the job was done properly. Therefore a possible unknown in your mind. An estimated and achieved cost/time isn't an indicator of proper wheel bearing servicing.
This comment is playing with your head the same as dealers play with your head. They, not all, assess you long before the vehicle is assessed.
Many mechanics don't use enough grease in wheel bearings, sometimes even Toyota doesn't add enough initially either.
If you aren't going to shortcut the job, then removing front and rear hubs and brakes and also removing the bearings, washing them properly for a surface check of cups and inner cone surfaces and then regreasing and adjusting does take some time, if done properly.
Most people don't like paying the money involved for a well done job.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 20:29

Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 20:29
Most people don't mind paying the money involved for a job done well.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Tony T3 - Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 20:46

Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 20:46
...and that would just about sum it up nicely.

TonyT3
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Sunday, Jun 10, 2018 at 11:23

Sunday, Jun 10, 2018 at 11:23


Cheers

Anthony
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Work - a 40 hour interuption to my weekend!
Too many places - too little time

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Jun 10, 2018 at 12:53

Sunday, Jun 10, 2018 at 12:53
There you go Tony. You even got a free psychiatric analysis for your trouble.
And they charge more than $100 an hour. :)
Cheers,Dave.
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 11:48

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 11:48
I had an early D4D common rail Prado. They had injector problems that would develop during the warranty period, sometimes quite early - the cold start rattle that if not attended to or correctly diagnosed would lead to a dead engine.

The forums were full of reports of dealers not diagnosing, or dodging the issue.

I was monitoring engine noises at start-up, almost obsessively.

I left the vehicle with my dealer for a routine service. During the service, and without any mention from me because I didn't think I had that problem, they picked up a failing injector and under warranty replaced all four, with new high pressure pipework. I saw the internal bill to Toyota - over $7000. I was impressed.

They undid some of their good work on another occasion when they let the apprentice fill the battery to the top, resulting in acid spewing over the battery and its surrounds, removing a fair bit of paint, but they fixed it ok.
AnswerID: 619382

Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 12:55

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 12:55
Batteries are fully sealed and maintenance free and have been for over 10 years
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 13:51

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 13:51
I suppose the boy must have drilled a filler hole in to all six cells to do what he did. If so, it was a neat job, except for the overfill. All six were threaded and had nice yellow caps. Lol

Or maybe it was about 10 years ago
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 21:34

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 21:34
"Batteries are fully sealed and maintenance free and have been for over 10 years"

Not true, right across the board. You can still buy batteries with screw-on tops, and numerous fairly new Toyotas I've encountered, have had screw-on top batteries fitted, that appear to have been original factory fit - my 2013 Hilux included.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, Jun 10, 2018 at 19:10

Sunday, Jun 10, 2018 at 19:10
Yes, couldn't be more wrong, plenty aren't sealed even if they might appear so. BIL's car battery recently started to play up so I helped him find a quality replacement at a good price. He'd mistakenly thought his old battery was fully sealed, hence had never checked fluid levels and sure enough all cells were very low, undoubtedly reducing his battery life. Both the old and new looked sealed but had hard plastic flaps covering the screw caps.
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FollowupID: 891741

Reply By: Greenant - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 14:52

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2018 at 14:52
I had a Holden commodore serviced at a dealership. Picked it up late in the arvo and took my son to footy practice, while waiting thought I would check under the bonnet. When I checked the battery it was bone dry. Next morning back to dealership and asked for service manager and showed him. My question to him was "what else hadn't been done ' left car to be re serviced and given a loan car. Next service reported a miss under load, picked up car told all ok test drive good. Went about one kilometre miss still there, back to dealership got the service manager to test drive with me .Straight away he said crook coil pack one cylinder we have had a lot fail. I then asked the question "how come service people tell lies"
no acceptable answer . left car and given loan vehicle

Cheers

greenant
AnswerID: 619386

Reply By: RMD - Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 17:33

Saturday, Jun 09, 2018 at 17:33
Axle.
This seems to be you having trouble with an axle.
AnswerID: 619448

Reply By: 1199 - Tuesday, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:07

Tuesday, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:07
My toyota dealership service has its issues too.
At the 12 month service they are supposed to re grease the wheel bearings which they didnt do. However my car hasn’t done the 20000 km.
Now my next service they are due again and curious if they will get done. Due to my car having low km.
So i haven’t decided (if they don’t do it) weather i pull them up on it.
Ive always done all my servicing and wheel bearings, and think im probably better off not having some dope play with them.
AnswerID: 619487

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