NSW BUYERS BEWARE

Submitted: Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 09:36
ThreadID: 13684 Views:1807 Replies:13 FollowUps:14
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All,

Anyone buying a ex Government 4WD from Auction, check the compliance plates.

Nissan sell two types of Patrols

One for the regular punters via car yards.
The other to Governments (compliance plate says COMM and type is NA)

The one I have, ex Police car is deemed a Light Goods van with side windows thus the CTP green slip attracts an additional $110 per year

Last year GIO stuffed up and missed this thus they charged me $354....this year $462 (thus I did the rounds of complaining to GIO and RTA)

RTA told me to go and get a blue slip (Ammendment of records)......can't be done

The reasoning is the doors are a lightweight compared to those in a passenger car. (must be missing a support cross member or something)

I was told it could be corrected but would need an engineering certificate and 4 new doors !!!

Paul

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Reply By: Member - Tim&jan - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:41

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:41
funny mine is comm na and my brothers was brand new but we still pay the same?
AnswerID: 62769

Reply By: Member - Tim&jan - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:43

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:43
sorry wasnt lookin properly were in lay back wa
AnswerID: 62770

Reply By: Michael - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:46

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:46
Yes , that would be correct.. Its missing the intrusion bar for passenger safety. Probably figure that no passengers equals no need for the intrusion beam, and now more chance of passengers getting hurt in a side impact thus it costs more to insure!!! Maybe you should check inside the doors, the beam may be there and the RTA are only assuming that they have been omitted. Michael
AnswerID: 62772

Follow Up By: joc45 - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:29

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:29
Sounds like penny-pinching to reduce the purchase price.
I remember the Federal govt contracts in the 60's and 70's had locally-mfr'd vehicles made to special fleet order to reduce the price; eg, Holden were supplying Toranas with drum brakes which couldn't be bought off the showroom floor, whereas the public could only buy disc-braked versions. Heater/demisters were a no-no till they were made mandatory under ADRs. Safety did not enter the equation. And the special low-compression engines made to run on low-octane fuel were a joke.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Member - Alan- Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 13:18

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 13:18
There were certainly some shocking vehicles built whilst the manufacturers were totally protected by huge tariff barriers. I well remember my brothers new Holden Kingswood in about 1970 ...... vinyl bench seat, vynil floor cover, 4 wheel drum brakes with no power assistance, 2 speed auto (!!!!), no window demister front or back.
A truly shocking, dangerous machine compared to what was available in Britain and Europe at that time.

The first car available in Australia front discs as standard was the much maligned Leyland P76. Falcons etc. could be ordered with them but it took ages to actually get the vehicle.
I remember watching a debate around 1972 or 73 on the box about the state of Australian cars and their lack of creature comforts and Holdens answer was that taxi drivers liked vynil flooring and seat as they were easy to clean! S*d the rest of the driving population.
Drum brakes were according to them better because sand would ruin the discs!
In the Motor mag (I think) they had an article about Alfa sending engineers to Australia because the NRMA said they were involved in too many rear end crashes.
Alfa said their cars had the finest brakes in the world and were told that they shouldn't make cars which stop quicker than others on the roads! Don't know what the Italians thought of that twisted bit of thinking but thank whoever that they've been forced to make cars that are better and much safer these days.
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Follow Up By: joc45 - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:51

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:51
Hi Alan,
Yeh, I remember that incident with Alfa.
Also recall that radial tyres weren't fitted as standard, coz mfrs reckoned the harsher ride caused suspensions to fail, so x-plies were fitted standard!
I worked for a govt organisation in those days, and their fleet section put out a booklet for the benefit of employees. In it, their chief mech engineer stated that radial tyres were a waste of time, did not perform better on the road, whereas x-plies were a proven technology.
Some advice!! but shows the way of thinking of some govt depts. Like no side barriers in the doors?
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Member - Alan- Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 17:33

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 17:33
Yes, Gerry, and every state police force had to carry out there own evaluation on radials. They wouldn't take the advices of experts overseas or the experience of other forces. Oh no, lets all do our own thing no matter how nonsensical or expensive it is!
And then there's ADR's which make no sense to outsiders, so many cars never make our shores as it's far too expensive to conform for the small numbers sold here.
No wonder it costs so much to run the country!
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Follow Up By: Paul - Monday, Jun 14, 2004 at 17:47

Monday, Jun 14, 2004 at 17:47
Michale,

I just back from Stockton Beach where I came down a 60 degree dune, and at the bottom was a left turn with deep ruts, I mis judged the clearence to the passange door, now its got a couple dents in it which should push out..........Anyways I pull the door lining off to try and push them out.........There is a bar about a third of the way up inch to inch and a half in diameter (same height as the black rubber on the outside)

What do the side intrusion bars look like and how big are they?

I'll going to swing by the garage again tommorrow morning and ask the question?

Wouldn't it be interesting if they made the cars compliant with 12482 but didn't change the compliance plates?
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Reply By: Rob W. - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 14:07

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 14:07
Paul
You got me worried, as I have an ex cop GU series 3, so I went to the NRMA website to get an estimate on the CTP greenslip, came to $336 !!.
I rang NRMA personaly to confirm this, they read back details of the car, yes $336
?????

Rob
AnswerID: 62791

Follow Up By: Paul - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:01

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:01
Rob,

Check your Rego Renewal.....and the body shape.

Mine say PVS this is a Light Goods Vechile with Side windows and incures an additional fee to your CTP green slip......

I check LAST YEARS renewal, the rego papers were the same but GIO missed it for last year....unfortunately or fortunately they picked it up this year.

When speaking with the guy who does the blue slips he showed me all the classifications and the differences.

On the NRMA site get another quote for a Light Goods Vechle instead.....I did the same thing with GIO .......$354 with what I thought it was.....$462 when GIO did it with the correct classification.

WELL NOW IM CONFUSED.

Just got of the phone to RTA Technical Support they tell me the body shape is incorrect on the Rego papers every one is pointing the finger at each other RTA at GIO, GIO and RTA and the guys at hte garage at say the RTA have no f****** idea !!!!

Paul
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Follow Up By: Paul - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:04

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:04
I should of clarified correct terminology before posting

Our ex Government cars have been DOWNGRADED by the RTA to

PVS - Panel Van Side windows

Horay !!!!! I own a Panel Van !!!!!

Paul
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FollowupID: 324069

Reply By: Rob W. - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:11

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:11
Thanks Paul,
I have a day off next week and will go in to NRMA and do another estimate.
If it comes up the same, will pay there and then.(rego is due end of this month).
I'll keep you informed.

Rob
AnswerID: 62795

Follow Up By: Paul - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:51

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 15:51
Ok,

Just spoke with the garage again....here is the low down.

There are two types

My car

Body Shape - PVS - Panel Van Side windows
Type - NA (Light goods Vechile)
Road Description - Y61 NA 2000 COMM

Approval Number 12483

Other Patrols

Body Shape - PVF
Type - MC
Approval Number 12482

Garage was once again adiment the RTA will have no idea about my type of car and to quote the Approval number and then they will see the light........funny enough....rand them back........now they see what I'm talking about.

SO,

I still can't get over the fact I own a panel van.......it seems there are TWO standards.

one for the government the other for consumers.

the consumer standard has more safety requirements thus a smaller green slip premium.

the government standard has less safety requirments thus a higher grenn slip premium

CONSUMERS cannot buy GOVERNMENT cars off the shelf but they sure as hell can buy them once they are thru with them at an aution and risk the lives of thier families with out any questions unless you delve into the rules and regulations to truely find out why your grenn slip premiums are different !!!!!

PS - If a panel van comes up for sale in the years to come......its not mine !!!!

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FollowupID: 324075

Follow Up By: rob1 - Sunday, Jun 13, 2004 at 15:53

Sunday, Jun 13, 2004 at 15:53
Paul,
Yes the body shape is PVS on the rego papers.
Just checked the compliance plate again, reads " this vehicle complies with the motor vehicle standards act 1989" so waht does this mean?
Shouldn't ALL vehicles meet a certain safety standard?
Anyway, I've had mine for 12 months now, bought it with 58,000k's on the clock(November 2001 model), it does have a full service history, And I just love it. Runs beautifully. We occasionally tow a BCNU off road camper trailer with no problem at all. Hope it lasts.(touch wood).
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Follow Up By: Paul - Monday, Jun 14, 2004 at 16:32

Monday, Jun 14, 2004 at 16:32
Rob,

I assume it meets the Approval Number 12482 or 12483

I just back from Stockton Beach where I came down a 60 degree dune, and at the bottom was a left turn with deep ruts, I mis judged the clearence to the passange door, now its got a couple dents in it which should push out..........Anyways I pull the door lining off to try and push them out.........There is a bar about a third of the way up inch to inch and a half in diameter (same height as the black rubber on the outside)

What do the side intrusion bars look like and how big are they?

I'll going to swing by the garage again tommorrow morning and ask the question?

Wouldn't it be interesting if they made the cars compliant with 12482 but didn't change the compliance plates?

Paul
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FollowupID: 324422

Follow Up By: Paul - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2004 at 17:06

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2004 at 17:06
Rob,

Don't know if you see this unless I follow up to your post.....

All,

Here is the final entry to my story.

Rang an Engineer.....had no idea what I was talking about......I quote him "a doors a door isn't it mate?" suggested I ring Nissan and check for different part numbers

$440 for an Engineers certificate.

Rang Nissan part to find out the different types of doors available.

They had no idea what I was talking about. They had 5 doors listed...... (I don't know where the 2nd part of the split rear door went).

I'm guessing the doors on this car come out of the factory without the side intursuion bar but if they need replacing they are replaced with doors that have them.

Anyways

$920.15 FOR "ONE" DOOR without Paint, Labour and fitting.

So thats a total of $4120.60 plus Paint, Labour and Fitting (If I got Nissan to do it)

For the extra $110 you have to pay for the green slip......i'll be coughing up !!!! (the green slip that is)
Paul
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FollowupID: 324534

Reply By: Aston - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 18:33

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 18:33
Maybe this is the time to start our own campain
and tell the general public,

DON'T BUY AN EXGOVERNMENT CAR
er: 4WD,panelvan, light goods van etc....because of .........

This might get through to the fools in govt when they can't get rid of the backstock when it starts to accumulate.

Cheers Aston
AnswerID: 62808

Reply By: Lone Wolf - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 18:53

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 18:53
I'm just glad I don't work for the Government!
AnswerID: 62811

Reply By: Plugger - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 20:44

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 20:44
Paul,

Have you ever checked the engine number on your Patrol. I purchased an ex police Gu Patrol. Before driving out of the auction place checked the engine number. It was different to the Rego papers. It had a new engine but the engine number had never been changed with the RTA. Had to get a blue slip and verification from the dealer about the new motor. Plugger

AnswerID: 62822

Follow Up By: Paul - Monday, Jun 14, 2004 at 16:34

Monday, Jun 14, 2004 at 16:34
Plugger,

Not yet....will do though, as I plan to work on it next weekend.

Paul
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FollowupID: 324423

Reply By: motherhen - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 22:19

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 22:19
Gee - we've bought a few vehicles through Govy auctions in WA, not aware that there could be differences. One was a landcruiser ute - ex Telstra. 5 years old, low kms. BUT it was registered as a wagon. It had never been converted - it was a tray top ute alright. Local licensing inspectors couldn't believe it when they saw the papers and the vehicle. What about non 4wds - cars, wagons, any difference in them? Usually anything ex Police is greated with less enthusiasm from the bidders; I thought because they'd been caned.
AnswerID: 62847

Reply By: Slammin - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 23:29

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 23:29
I use govt 4wds a fair bit and see a heap of them and I wouldn't touch them with the proverbial barge pole.

They do a nice job washing and polishing at the end replacing broken bits etc but the treatment they cop doesn't mean that the supposed low k's are worth it. These vehicles are cheaper for a reason, THEY'VE BEEN FLOGGED!!!!!!!!!

In a work vehicle, speed bumps=launch pads.

This sort of attitude pisses me off because I try to look after the cars but I'm the only one in the fleet. How many times have I jumped in to find 4wd locked on the bitumin..........., and I know it's been that way for 150+ K's. Repeatedly past the service date by 10s of thousands K's. Drive softly till warm, yeah right. Speedo broken for months = @50,000+ K's by my estimate, so yep it's got low K's. etc etc

If the vehicles were treated with respect I don't think the govt would need to sell them at such low K's.

I know some people do OK from the auctions, you gotta check which dept they come from but I've seen the flogging from all depts. Police vehicles while may be a bit harder life are treated a bit better from what I've seen, gee thats a good trade off.

So how do ex govt fleet purchasers fare in the long run? Do you guys also run them for a year and then pass them on?

AnswerID: 62862

Follow Up By: Paul - Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 at 08:17

Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 at 08:17
I've had mine comming up to 2 years now. No plans to pass it on, hey I have a vintage Panel Van :-)

Only issuses I have is its starting in colder mornings,

And I had the clutch replaced after Nissan Service somehow caused it to get an oil leak in the front sump whilst looking for the starting problems. This meant they had to remove gearbox and sumps to fix.......that was still under warranty....the clutch wasn't.

Other than that I'm happy as it gets me up and down hills, in and out of places I wouldn't normally go.

Paul
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FollowupID: 324196

Reply By: kiwi2 - Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 at 14:20

Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 at 14:20
Dunno about Police vehicles. Can anybody imagine a radio conversation like:

"Sorry, Sarge, we know it's an emergency but we're waiting for the engine to get up to operating temperature before we can run it any harder".

Or the news report:

"Police abandoned the pursuit when they realised that they were in danger of causing excessive wear and tear on the mechanical components of their vehicle".

LOL
AnswerID: 62890

Reply By: Member - Brian B (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 at 19:41

Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 at 19:41
Hi Paul,

It certainly is something to be aware of.

I can only speak for Queensland and in fact most Queensland government vehicles are now leased and not owned. I can tell you that with police and emergency services (excluding ambulances and fire trucks and other specialist vehicles), most others are changed over at 40,000klm. In some cars this can be reached in a matter of months as the wheels do not stop turning.

General duties cars get flogged. If you get an emergency at the start of your shift on a cold winter morning, you don't hang around for the engine to reach a good operating temp before responding. Its 0 to full on in a matter of seconds. We have vehicles that get new brake pads every couple of weeks etc so they have a very hard life. On top of this you get some people who just don't care about the car and this also reduces their life.

The cars to try and get at the auction are those that have been used by senior staff etc who do not routinely respond to incidents as these don't cop such a harsh life. The trick is that you have to know who has had the vehicle and its history so that you can track it to the auctions. I know a lot of people who have done this and have ended up with a good car, generally about twelve months old with low mileage. Two friends have picked up great Landcruisers that have been great but as I said they were fully aware who had them and how they looked after them.

Then there is always the lemon factor. My current work vcehicle is a new Holden Commodore. With 200klm on the clock the engine died and was fully replaced so you just never know.

I know this doesn't help you a lot but just wanted to add a bit of input.

Cheers
AnswerID: 62916

Reply By: Paul - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2004 at 16:19

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2004 at 16:19
All,

Here is the final entry to my story.

Rang an Engineer.....had no idea what I was talking about......I quote him "a doors a door isn't it mate?" suggested I ring Nissan and check for different part numbers

$440 for an Engineers certificate.

Rang Nissan part to find out the different types of doors available.

They had no idea what I was talking about. They had 5 doors listed...... (I don't know where the 2nd part of the split rear door went).

I'm guessing the doors on this car come out of the factory without the side intursuion bar but if they need replacing they are replaced with doors that have them.

Anyways

$920.15 FOR "ONE" DOOR without Paint, Labour and fitting.

So thats a total of $4120.60 plus Paint, Labour and Fitting (If I got Nissan to do it)

For the extra $110 you have to pay for the green slip......i'll be coughing up !!!!

Paul
AnswerID: 63249

Follow Up By: rob1 - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2004 at 16:35

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2004 at 16:35
Paul
So it doesn't have side intrusion bars(maybe). This is the first vehicle I've had that's had an airbag. Most of us grew up and travelled in cars with our parents that didn't have ABS, SRS AIRBAGS, Side intrusion bars, traction control, hill descent control, and all the other driver assist technology. Big deal. Yes it would be a whole lot safer, but thats the way things are. And why "downgrade the safety for police cars? aren't the police worth keeping safe? -(maybe don't answer that).
So the bottom line is I don't care IF it doesn't have side intrusion bars. The issue is the cost of the green slip.
Again, I'll keep you informed when I pay mine.
MAybe we could hear fom other 3.0 TD patrol owners, both with the DX & the ST and see what their rego and green slip read.

Rob
PS The approval number on mine is 12483
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FollowupID: 324697

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