Split rims

Submitted: Thursday, Jul 19, 2018 at 16:42
ThreadID: 137004 Views:1805 Replies:11 FollowUps:11
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Bridgestone distributor in Ballarat is saying Toyota have been advised by VACC that split rims on passenger vehicles are to be banned as of next year .
Has anyone heard anything further regarding this..?
Have emailed VACC re this ,no reply as yet
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Jul 19, 2018 at 18:10

Thursday, Jul 19, 2018 at 18:10
There are separate categories for "Passenger Vehicles" and "Off road passenger vehicles". The "soft roaders" would probably mostly fail the tests for the off road ones.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2012C00326/Html/Text#_Toc326158540

Cheers,
Peter
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Reply By: RMD - Thursday, Jul 19, 2018 at 18:22

Thursday, Jul 19, 2018 at 18:22
Garry
That is good to hear. Tubeless are far safer than tube tyres. Even for heavy work, ie trucks, the frequency of failures with tubeless is reduced. The Newell used to be littered with tyres, not anymore. I bought an HJ61 Toyota in 1986 and replaced it’s rims as, purely for the safety aspect. Now decades later it is being seriously considered as being wise.
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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 07:34

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 07:34
Yep, can tell you from personal experience, that a tubed tyre goes flat in 0.1 seconds no or little warning, and usually at the worst time. Having said that, i got a puncture doing a u turn at the caravan park in Tibbuburra, 10 ply splitty, nearest tyre fitter, 700kms away, dismantled, put spare tube in after pulling out thorn, reinflated and carried on to innamincka.
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Reply By: Hoyks - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 13:07

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 13:07
I had a pallet staple go through the rear tyre on my motorbike mid corner. As said, the tube goes in 0.1 seconds and it was more good luck than good management that got me around the turn with the tyre demounting its self in the process.

I much prefer tubeless as they will still go flat, but in a much more controlled manner.

9 times out of 10 you can patch them up with some sticky string, pump them up and be on your way, rather than trotting out the tyre irons and demounting the tyre off the rim and fix it from the inside.

Breaking the bead and getting the tyre off the rim for that 10% can be challenging though, but if it is to that point they carcass is probably stuffed and you are just bodgying it up to get back to civilization.
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 13:20

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 13:20
................and some tubeless tyres don't know they're supposed to go flat slowly!



Bob

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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 14:17

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 14:17
How do we know it didn't deflate far slower than a tube tyre?????
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 14:37

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 14:37
It's a bit difficult to measure the rate of deflation from the driver's seat, Ross, at 90 km/h, but when it went "BOOOM" I'd guess it was about the same deflation rate as a tubed tyre.

The driver was only a passenger after the sound effects, note the white road marker post on far right of photo.

Bob

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Follow Up By: Dean K3 - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 15:18

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 15:18
Just hope nobody was comign other way - truckies biggest fear blown steer tyre - electronic steering supposed to prevent the pull associated to hydrau;lics but hate to put it to the test.

sand tipper year plus ago lost right steer tyre on a bend sent them straight in oncoming car -driver of car survived but was seriously injured as a result - not to mention closing Gt Eastern Hwy for good part of a day
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 19:48

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 19:48
Jees Bob, you didn't have to blow that tyre to have a comfort break.
Yep! Tubeless go down just as fast, but give me safety rims and tubeless any day over splits.

If that was a wheat field, I would have wanted compensation for lost crop. Ha Ha

PS. you gotta get a decent sleeper on that jigger
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:00

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:00
Bob - Many years ago, I blew a (crossply) steer tyre (passenger side) on an old Perkins-powered 6-wheeler ACCO ("butterbox") tipper (with no power steering).

Even though I was only doing the ACCO's top speed of 80kmh, I was stunned at my inability to control the truck.

I ran straight off the Gt Eastern Hwy and into the scrub, with all my steering input to try and avoid running off the road, for nought.

Luckily it happened between Southern Cross and Merredin, where there's bugger-all trees.
I could have been history, if there had been any solid Salmon gums right there, where I ran off the road.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:19

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:19
Yeah, it’s scary, Ron! Just become a passenger from that point, luckily the trailers were empty.

Off the bitumen, missed one of those big concrete HT power poles, straight through a fence and rolled to a stop a hundred metres later. Phoned for help and some young blokes came out and changed the tyre for me.

Was a steady trip back to town......

Slow,

I don’t use the bunk much, we’re home every night. LOL

Bob



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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:43

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:43
Yes, scary alright - and then you see blokes using RECAPS on steers!!

For over 40 years, I've had a policy of only NEW tyres on steers - and only TOP BRANDS of new tyre on steers. It's a policy that has stood the test of time.

Bottom line is, you have only TWO tyres guiding anywhere from another 4, up to another 68 tyres! - so you want those TWO tyres to be the best you can fit!

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 14:03

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 14:03
I run tubeless tyres on the OKA, but from personal experience, if you have LOTS of punctures to repair and don't like throwing "slightly damaged" casings away, it is much better to run splits.

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:09

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:09
Peter - In the days when we did nickel exploration pegging and gridlining ('69-'73), we used bulldozers - but other blokes working cheaper, would use 4WD's.

The blokes using 4WD's (mostly Landrovers, back then!) would drive the 4WD's virtually straight through the virgin bush in the Eastern Goldfields, to follow the gridlines - and they used to use almost bald (crossply) tyres, and pump them up to 40 psi.

Their experience was, the nearly-bald tyres and high pressures, ensured the stakes were deflected or shed quite easily - as compared to tyres with good tread - where the grooves in the tread would assist in guiding the stakes in.

Those blokes still used to change up to a dozen tyres a week! Split rims made it a piece of cake, no-one even considered using tubeless back then!

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: splits - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 19:12

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 19:12
A lot depends on the type of tyres you have to use in some conditions.

There was a photo on this site about six years ago of a new 7.50 x 16 MRF Superlug cross plyMRF on the front of a Nissan Patrol. It had zero pressure in it but it was nowhere near flat. Not even the weight of a Patrol could crush its near inch thick sidewalls.

Those type of tyres are all over outback stations and are the reason why split rims still exist. They are there for puncture resistance, not street handling

I have an old 7.50 x 16 Dunlop street tyre . It was given to me by a tyre service. I had ideas of maybe fitting 7.50s to an old live axle Hilux but I have yet to try and get it onto a one piece wheel by hand. It is an all steel radial, not a steel belted radial. It is so stiff and heavy that I don't like my chances.

I still have a set of split rims though but I don't use them anymore. It ,and one of those MRFs, would fall on and off a split rim.
AnswerID: 620261

Reply By: Member - Garry B14 - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 19:53

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 19:53
For a well informed and accurate comparison of split/ non split rims ,types of tyres best suited to various situations , and a heap of other interesting stuff have a look at Mick Huttons articles on the Beadell Tours website.
Peter-n-Margaret I tried to follow that legislation link you provided but could not find any reference re split rims...having said that I think you are probably right regarding type of four wheel drive and the use of split rims.
Cheers to all
AnswerID: 620262

Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:16

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:16
There was no reference to splits there, I posted it simply to show that there are several categories of vehicles that the change COULD apply to and it may or may not apply to them all.
And of course it can only apply to road registered vehicles.
We will see....

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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FollowupID: 892661

Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:38

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 18:38
Why would they try to ban split rims from passenger vehicles when split rims are still used on all rubber-tyred earthmoving equipment - up to the biggest 400-tonne dump trucks??

Large numbers of people get wild-eyed and start mouthing rubbish such as "widow makers!", "tyre-fitter killers!", and "accident looking for a place to happen", when split rims are mentioned.

The simple fact is - there is still a place for split rims, there are still millions of split rims in use - and you would probably be surprised if I told you, you probably drove right alongside a split rim under heavy load, spinning at 100kmh - at least several times today! - and probably even more times, if you've been doing substantial long-distance travel!

I've changed God knows how many split rims over more than 50 years, and never had a problem. I still run multiple numbers of split rims today.

Accidents happen with split rims due to a basic lack of care in assembly, a lack of careful rim and lock ring examination, and a basic lack of training.

You always check split rims for damage, for dents in locking flanges, for cracks, for ill-fitting lock rings, and for serious corrosion.
You never assemble a badly corroded split rim, nor a dirty rim with mud on it.
You ensure the lock ring is a snug fit when you have it assembled, and are applying initial pressure.

You learn to identify rims and their correct lock rings - and you don't "mix-and-match" brands of rim and lock rings (rim manufacturers all have their own slightly different designs).

I'm more scared of a tyre explosion caused by severe carcass bruising and internal damage to the tyre, than I ever am of a split rim that I have assembled, flying apart.

The horror stories of blokes getting killed by exploding split rims, relate back to simple things -

1. The deadly and obsolete RH-5 degree Firestone split rim - which IS a real killer. Fortunately, very few of them are still in existence.

2. Youthful enthusiasm, coupled with a lack of training, experience and knowledge. That's not the fault of the youth killed, that's simple lack of supervision and training.

3. Damaged, corroded and mis-matched rims and lock rings being assembled. Again, lack of training, experience and knowledge.

I do know of at least one 19 yr old farm boy who was killed by a lock ring coming off, as he inflated the tyre.
Once again, it was case of youthful ignorance coupled with a lack of training and supervision.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 620273

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 10:57

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 10:57
With gear like R&R Beadbreaker and tubeless plug kits these days, a split rim is probably not the easier way to change or repair a tyre in remote areas. I repaired only one on an old Land cruiser Trayback we had on our acreage in the Southern Highlands and i found it rusty, messy and hard work. I have an R & R BeadBreaker now and find it much easier, but it still depends on the type of tyre. Im not sure if you can run those old style 10 ply crossplies on tubeless rims, but if you can, I'm sure even the R&R BeadBreaker would be challenge. Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired Xmas 2016 and now we are Out and About!

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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:31

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:31
In 2013 I had to buy a couple of 7.50x16 tyres for the 20 year old 4WD Iveco motorhome we were driving in Europe. We were in Hungary at the time (heading east) and the only ones I could buy with the required weight rating were Russian made cross plies.

I put them on the rear. Driving on them was very scary.
Fuel consumption increased by 15% and they were worn out in 20,000km.
The vehicle had split rims, but that was the least of our worries.

I might put cross plies on a bull catcher, but no where else.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 17:48

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 17:48
I've got 12 ply 7.50x16 radials on 5 stud 'Cruiser split rims fitted to a 4500kg tandem trailer.
I wouldn't like to try and change or fit 12 ply tubeless in the bush! But they're great on the split rims on the trailer. Best part is, they're load rated to 1500kg per tyre.

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: andrew t - Sunday, Aug 05, 2018 at 01:09

Sunday, Aug 05, 2018 at 01:09
i would love to see the facts in this issue . the vacc do not write legislation nor do they write engineering standards for motor vehicles, they are a lobby group who represent repairers n the motor industry, they have tried to push for many thing usually in the interest of the groups they represent and not in the best interest of the motorist. i think it is another old wives tale that split rims will be banned , more like whoever came up ith this story does not want to work on them and wants to sell you some new tyres and rims
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