Prado 120 GR V6

Submitted: Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 20:02
ThreadID: 137013 Views:1151 Replies:7 FollowUps:16
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Anyone know when they started fitting smart alternators to the 120.

I have a 2003 Grande but not sure which Alternator it has.
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Reply By: 76lifted - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 22:27

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 22:27
If you use your VIN number you should be able to find the exact part number for you specific vehicle.

If you cant find part online ring a toyota dealer and get them to look up the part number for you.

You can find the VIN on either the chassis or one of the plates under the bonnet or in the door jam. It will most likely start with the letters JTEEV (or something like that atleast on the toyotas ive seen).

Cheers Jed
AnswerID: 620265

Reply By: The Explorer - Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 23:14

Friday, Jul 20, 2018 at 23:14
Hello

I have a 2003 Prado GX diesel - no "smart" alternator. I am the smartest thing in the car and that is not saying much :)

Cheers
Greg
Amongst these desert sands the heat is almost unbearable by day at this time of the year. Dec 25th 1896 L.A. Wells - Calvert Scientific Exploring E

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Reply By: Gbc.. - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 07:09

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 07:09
If by smart you mean temperature compensated, have a look in the fuse box. If it has an Alt S fuse it is temperature compensated.
AnswerID: 620267

Follow Up By: Rob M12 - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 07:35

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 07:35
The later alternators (smart) cut out when the Battery is fully charged, not much good if you are running dual battery system, you need to make some changes for it to work properly.

thanks
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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 12:56

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 12:56
If your vehicle is fitted with a "smart alternator" (i.e. - "variable voltage alternator", or "computer-controlled alternator"), it has a highly visible voltage sensor fitted to one of the battery poles.

REDARC - How do I know if my vehicle has a Variable Voltage Alternator?

This VVA technology did not start to appear until about 2012 on a number of vehicles.

I have a 2013 diesel Hilux and it does not have a VVA.

However, you may find your alternator has an "overrunning", or "alternator decoupler" pulley, or a one-way clutch pulley.

These new design pulleys have an inbuilt mechanism that allows the alternator to keep spinning at high speed, if the engine RPM is pulled back rapidly.

The idea behind the design is to reduce vibration, reduce power losses, reduce electrical charging fluctuations, and reduce drive belt wear.

It's critical that when alternator pulleys are replaced, they are replaced with the correct pulley that is an identical design to the original - an overrunning pulley, a one-way clutch pulley, or a solid pulley.

Replacing, say, an overrunning pulley with a solid pulley (or swapping alternators, so that a solid pulley alternator replaces an alternator with an overrunning pulley), will compromise the performance of the entire accessory drive system, and result in substantially increased drive belt wear, and power losses.

Alternator Decoupler Pulleys

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Rob M12 - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 15:12

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 15:12
That’s very helpful, thanks
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 15:22

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 15:22
VVA technology was around a long time before 2012
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 16:54

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 16:54
Not what we were told what clutched pulleys were designed to do when they hit the market. You would be hard pushed to notice a difference in vibration in a hilux. Personally I don't think they are needed with low inertia alternators such as fitted to the hilux.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 23:29

Saturday, Jul 21, 2018 at 23:29
Ron
If it has a variable voltage alternator,
Does it really have a voltage sensor at the terminal of the battery? isn't it AMPERE flow which is being measured?
To detect that flow most have the sensor, a magnetic strength detecting Hall effect unit on the negative cable, near the body/chassis earth.

A lot of alternators have small pulleys and the belts last a long time, ie 5PK or 7pk multigroove belts usually.

I can't see how any noticeable vibration is happening.
A spinning alternator upon engine decelleration gives rotary energy back to the engine, how is there a power loss?
An alternator slows very quickly if charging when the belt comes off.

A decoupler pulley may be required if the engine revs very fast and the small pulley may cause the alternator to rev to destruction. Does that occur in a Prado or Hilux?
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 00:17

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 00:17
RMD - The device fitted to the vehicles that have "smart alternators" is called an IBS - Intelligent Battery Sensor.

At the IBS's heart is a shunt, and along with the shunt, is a range of integrated electronics.

These electronics measure a range of battery parameters - current flow, voltage and battery temperature, being the primary measurements.

The integrated electronics utilise a LIN bus communication protocol to send the battery information to the vehicles ECU.

Here's the full write-up on the IBS's currently being utilised (pun intended).
Your head will hurt, after you've read right through the article - if you bother to glance at it.

IBS design

The other information you ask about the pulleys, is provided in the Gates site, I thought.

However, possibly a better explanation is provided in this (U.S.) NAPA technical advice article.

Sorry about just providing more links - but the article saves me some tedious typing, just repeating what is already well-written, elsewhere.

NAPA - Alternator Clutch Pulley designs

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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 07:09

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 07:09
That's the trouble with forums, people just repeating whats written elsewhere, never having had any experience or understanding of the subject, just blindly believing what someone else wrote. Armchair experts.

Many workshops these days with very experienced staff spend a lot of time arguing with customers that have no idea about the subject but they read on a forum somewhere that will be the problem, then carry on like a bitch when they get charged for what they wanted but it didn't make a difference.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 10:05

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 10:05
I don't "repeat whats written elsewhere", I link to technical articles by qualified engineers, electricians, and other professionals in their respective fields.

The problem here, is, if I write more than 2 paragraphs, a swag of the readers complain that I write too much in a post, and they can't be bothered reading it.

That says a lot about the intelligence level of a lot of 4WD owners.

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Follow Up By: Zippo - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:41

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:41
Ron, my 2007 build Subaru Forester has an ECU-controlled alternator, and its negative terminal is naked as a jay-bird like the left one in the Redarc illustration linked.

I spent a fair bit of time determining whether the alt really WAS ECU-controlled, as it is devious - if any auxiliary loads are operating it won't drop the output voltage. As I always have the cabin vent fan running, the voltage never dropped, but once I was acquainted with the "logic" I turned the fan off it and dropped about half a minute later. Using any external lights also prevent reduction. These are infinitely repeatable, I sometimes annoy SWMBO when she's driving by turning the fan on/off and watching the main battery voltage on the four-digit dash voltmeter.

If you're up in the big (P) smoke while I'm around you're welcome to come/see/test.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 12:06

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 12:06
Ron
To get to the original posters question. Does a 2003 Toyota have stop start technology and with it a requirement to monitor the battery because of that system?
If not, it won't have the device you mentioned and the posts of technical stuff of a system it hasn't got is hardly helping the OP to know what he has got.
At present, to my mind, he is possibly now looking for something his vehicle may only be likely to be fitted with, quite a few years after it's manufacture date.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 12:31

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 12:31
RMD - The OP didn't ask whether his vehicle had stop-start technology - he asked if it was fitted with a "smart alternator".
I put up the Redarc link to show what a current "smart alternator" setup has.

What is confusing many people, is that many Toyota's from around 2000-on have a "temperature-controlled" alternator. Rob M12's 2003 Prado should have this setup.

This Toyota arrangement has electronics set in the alternator voltage regulator, which drops the charging voltage when the under-bonnet temperature increases.

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Follow Up By: Rob M12 - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 18:03

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 18:03
Hi all, I wasn't expecting such a long and detailed discussion on the subject.

The reason for the question was I need to fit a DC-Dc charger to the car and if it has a "smart" Alternator then apparently the wiring is a little different.

From what you all say it would seem out doesn't.

thanks
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 18:44

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 18:44
Rob M12, if you are heading down the DC-DC charger route, unless I am seriously mistaken the *only* difference an ECU-controlled ("smart") alternator makes is that you will need an "ignition-sensing" DC-DC unit.
The smart alternator voltage droop causes the standard DC-DC units to think the motor has been turned off, so they cease charging the aux battery. With the ignition-sensing type an extra connection is made to an ignition voltage source so the unit continues operating until the motor really is turned off.
(I use a Redarc BCDC1220-IGN for that very reason).

Edit: beaten by Allan B ...
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 21:39

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 21:39
.
I think it was a dead-heat Zippo.
But clearly, two great minds agree.

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 18:44

Sunday, Jul 22, 2018 at 18:44
,
Hi Rob,

Now that it is clear that you wish to employ a dc-dc charger I suggest that there is a solution. In fact it suits both controlled and regular alternators.

The simple solution is to fit a Redarc BCDC1220-IGN charger.
This charger operates from an ignition trigger to allow operation in vehicles with Variable Voltage or Smart Alternators. It will cut-in from as low as 12v if the ignition is on therefore it will begin to charge from the starter battery without alternator assistance. Then, as the 'Vehicle Smarts' detect the current draw, the alternator will begin to contribute, which is exactly what you want to happen. From that point everything proceeds as if it was a regular charging system. The charger will immediately disconnect if the ignition is turned off to protect the starter battery from discharge.

Now, it does not even matter if your vehicle has a conventional alternator. This charger will work just as well.

You may detect that I am a fan of Redarc products. Unashamedly, I am, and for good reason. They are Australian-made excellent products with very accessable technical backup. Unfortunately, they do not pay me to say this.



Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Rob M12 - Sunday, Jul 29, 2018 at 17:18

Sunday, Jul 29, 2018 at 17:18
Another question for the brains trust,

I have connected to Projecta DC-Dc charger as per the instructions, do I leave the auxiliary battery still connected to the cranking battery via the cable as well or do I just rely on the charger.

thanks
AnswerID: 620394

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Jul 29, 2018 at 21:47

Sunday, Jul 29, 2018 at 21:47
.
If you have connected a Projecta "as per the instructions" we might well expect that these instructions would have made it quite clear how the battery is to be connected.

You're not just having a loan of us, are you?

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Rob M12 - Monday, Jul 30, 2018 at 06:48

Monday, Jul 30, 2018 at 06:48
I’m not having a loan of anybody, the instuction make no mention of what to do with the old cable wired via the isolator, leave it connected or not.
AnswerID: 620399

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Jul 30, 2018 at 07:19

Monday, Jul 30, 2018 at 07:19
.
I expect that you would have used the old cable to wire from the starter battery to the charger input, but if you installed a new cable in that location then certainly remove the old cable and the isolator.


Cheers
Allan

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