Terracan Crank Shaft Pulley

Submitted: Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 20:52
ThreadID: 137027 Views:1392 Replies:8 FollowUps:11
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Hi Guys, hope someone can help. I have a diesel Hyundai Terracan which the crank shaft pulley and bolt has has literally fallen off in the shopping centre carpark yesterday. Apparently a common fault with this model. The pulley is damaged therefore needs to be replaced. I have been advised to also replace the bolt and washer. I have priced the genuine bolt $19.00 and genuine washer $71.00. The washer is supposed to be a locking washer but to me it looks like a normal washer but thicker. Not sure how it locks the bolt in place and really questioning the price. Can I possibly use the old washer. Also, I have been looking at replacement pulley's via Ebay (not game enough to ring Hyundai at this stage). My pulley has four drilled holes I'm gathering for balancing however the replacement pulleys have 1,2 or 3 holes. Is it as simple as going to the wreckers and buying a second hand one and fitting it or do they have to be balanced to suit etc.
Thanks Gordon
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:19

Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:19
Hi Gordon, the Pulley, (Harmonic Balancer) bolt is probably worth replacing but if it's just a plain flat washer, it's hard to justify $71.00. If it's still flat, I personally would use it again. The new bolt may have a locktite type gunk on the thread that is supposed to hold it firm after it has been torqued correctly. Maybe you could get the torque setting for the bolt from the net and the thread should be the opposite hand to the direction of the engine anyway to stop it undoing. The holes are probably threaded so you can use a puller to remove the harmonic balancer and sometimes also used to install it, it normally is a interference fit and you should not hit it on with a hammer. Balancing holes are generally shallow and not threaded. So if the holes are threaded, the amount of holes wont matter. I wonder if there was a locking washer between the head of the bolt and the flat washer, bite marks would be evident in the flat washer it that were the case. I hope this helps. Michael.
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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:44

Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:44
Thanks for your reply Michael. Definitely no bite marks on the original washer, I was thinking the same. Torque setting is 240-290lbs I believe. Bolt & washer is in good condition ie washer is flat. I had the timing belt done approx 15000km ago and was told by the mechanic they would put locktite on the bolt, I'm guessing they forgot. The vehicle has 309000km on it so don't know how old the bolt and washer is, so I think I will buy new ones and hope it doens't happen again. The holes I am referring to are on the rear of the pulley. I am pretty sure the pulley's are pre-balanced, just not sure. Again thanks for your info, it does help.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:51

Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:51
Are you sure that the washer is meant to be flat? There is a reason that the new one is $71.00, maybe it’s a wave type locking washer.
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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 23:08

Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 23:08
Hi Shaker, the ones I have seen on Ebay and google are flat. They are a very thick so I'm guessing they help with absorbing the vibrations maybe. It is smooth I just can't see how it locks the bolt in place. Probably just Hyundai's typical price. Very expensive I thought. Just don't want it to happen again, same thing happened to a friend of mine ended up damaging his crank as well, cost him a couple of grand $$.
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Follow Up By: Hoyks - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 07:29

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 07:29
Some washers are slightly concave, so when torqued down they squash flat and supply a bit of spring tension to the bolt head to resist vibration.

Install it with threadlocker (red loctite) and it won't come out again.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 08:17

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 08:17
Shaker, That's something I overlooked, yes a Bevelle washer, definitely a possibility. Michael
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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:24

Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:24
.
Hi Gordon,

If the bolt and washer are undamaged, I can see no reason to not reuse them.
I would suggest using 'Threadlock' when you re-assemble to reduce the risk of a repeat problem.

The pulleys would be balanced at manufacture. I very much doubt that they are balanced on the engine. So an 'aftermarket' or one from the wreckers should be OK.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Gordonk - Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:48

Monday, Jul 23, 2018 at 22:48
Thanks Allen, seen many of your post and like Michael (above post) value your advise. Will definitely use Threadlock. I'm sure you are correct about the balancing will check the wreckers for a replacement pulley and see if it works. Thanks again for your in-put.
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Reply By: qldcamper - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 07:32

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 07:32
Have you put any thought into how your going to get at least 240 foot pounds of tension on whatever bolt and washer you choose to use? Could be more difficult than you think if it is an auto. Is there a procedure in the manual? If the engine starts to turn when your half way there the thread lock will set while your trying to figure out a way to stop the engine from turning.
Just a thought.
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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 08:26

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 08:26
Gordon, buy a replacement balancer, and use loctite on the crank, bolt and everything you can get it on. Doing it up to 200nm will require making a c spanner to accept 3 of the bolt holes on the new balancer. The crank will also be worn, so you are up for a significant amount of money to change that......or loctite and trade.
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Reply By: RMD - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:06

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:06
Gordonk.
You have to make sure the end face of crank is lower than the face of pulley to ensure clamping by the washer. It plays no part in the balance though.
No matter what direction the crank turns the tight bolt should NEVER come loose. If crank face and pulley face are same level thewasher won't clamp the pulley and chaffing and pulley/crank wear will result. I presume the faces are at different heights and the thick washer is there to provide the bolt clamp force to the pulley. If it bends it may not clamp the pulley very well. I WOULD NOT use loctite, there is nothing wrong with the design, just the quality of workmanship involved. If it is a thick washer and flat, ie, 5mm it is very unlikely it will be a Belville type. You may have to make a plate with holes matching the pulley so you can hold the pulley to enable tightening. Probably exactly what was NOT done during most repairs, hence a developed history of failures, courtesy of the mechanics involved.
PS if the shaft anf pulley bote are damaged, "Bearing mount" loctite between will provide lost support and restore security.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:34

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:34
Because of the very nature of the function of harmonic balancers, they are subject to torque oscillation. On several designs that I have seen (but not all of them), a keyway/key system is used to prevent the prospect of this from loosening the assembly. In those cases if the HB comes adrift the key and corresponding keyway in both the HB and crankshaft have usually deteriorated beyong the point of sensible re-use.

If not a keyway type, then re-use is possible assuming the fit as RMD mentioned is appropriate. Use of a Belleville washer (the correct name) is the widely used (IME) alternative to keying. Achieving the specified tightening torque can be a logistical problem - some manuals actually suggest locking the flywheel ring gear with a large screwdriver or similar through the starter motor mounting hole. Calibrated rattle-gun is an alternative.
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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:00

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:00
.
Gordon,

If the washer is a Belleville type it will be domed as illustrated below. This is to maintain a continuing axial force on the pulley face.

However, it is more likely that it is simply an oversized thick high-tensile washer with an overall diameter sufficient to reach beyond the diameter of the pulley bore. This is standard practice where a centre bolt is used to secure the pulley. Furthermore, a bolt with a flanged head is also often employed.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Ron N - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:54

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:54
Gordonk - As the Hyundai diesel crankshaft pulley design is notoriously weak - to ensure maximum reliability, buy all new components - pulley, washer and bolt.
Using secondhand components is a guaranteed path to rapid failure again, as you have no idea of the condition or accuracy of fit, of the (well) used, secondhand component.

I have always had good success using Powerbond harmonic balancers, if the price of the genuine Hyundai pulley is excessive.

Good diesel crankshaft pulley design, usually sees a tapered fit between the crankshaft nose, and the internal bore of the pulley.

It's difficult to see the exact design in the repair videos, but if appears the Hyundai design is simply a parallel-sided slip fit, with a keyway and key ensuring the pulley doesn't turn on the shaft.

With this style of design, it is crucial to ensure the keyway and key are in as-new condition, when fitting a new pulley.
Any wear in the keyway or key will only cause the new pulley to start moving on the crankshaft, which will then loosen the retention bolt.

The heavy plain flat washer and flanged head retention bolt are a common engineering design for crankshaft pulleys - and it is always advisable to utilise threadlock compound on the new retention bolt threads, and retaining compound on the crankshaft nose.

Cheers, Ron.






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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 16:13

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 16:13
Good on you Ron , great Video So the balancer has no key by the look of the video and no Locktite type retaining, just a slip fit on the crankshaft, a very poor piece of engineering. Also the failure of the rubber between the two parts of the balancer is very ordinary, I wonder if Hyundai have fixed this in later spare parts or is an aftermarket part better designed to stop this failure. You would expect better from the up and coming Hyundai Company. Michael.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 19:00

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 19:00
Don’t lose sight of the fact that they have been discontinued for 11 years, even very well established brands have their share of issues, BMW break timing chains as do Navara D40s, Patrol GU manual gearboxes had problems & we could never forget the infamous 3.0 diesel.

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 21:20

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 21:20
Michael - Yes, there is a key and keyway in the Terracan diesel engine crankshaft pulley.

I linked the above videos to the Santa Fe 2.2L diesel engine - then later on, I realised the Terracan uses the 2.9L diesel engine, which has a different crankshaft pulley design again.

On the 2.9L Terracan engine, the main crankshaft pulley contains two pulleys - the larger one on the front side, is part of the main pulley assembly - the smaller one fits behind the larger pulley, and this inner pulley is pressed onto a machined hub on the main pulley, with a rubber insert in it, between it and the main pulley.

This inner pulley is then, not only a pulley, but acts as the harmonic balancer as well.
Here's some better photos of the exact crankshaft pulley.

eBay - Huyundai Terracan crankshaft pulley

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 22:08

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 22:08
Ron, that's still bad design, very short key and short length of engagement on shaft. Michael
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Reply By: Gronk - Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 20:41

Tuesday, Jul 24, 2018 at 20:41
If you need parts, instead of Hyundai, try Hyspares...supposedly a lot cheaper.
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