gearbox oil

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 15:18
ThreadID: 137057 Views:971 Replies:7 FollowUps:6
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have a ranger px series 1,3.2 auto,done 56000 ks.gearbox oil is dirty needs changing,but which oil,etherridge ford uses ,mobil tq dextron 6, about 440 dollars to change oil filter etc, knox ford uses mavconlv ,not sure of spelling,900 hundred dollars plus labour, which way to go,will pay the 900 for the different oil if its worth it,thanks for future answers barry

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Reply By: swampy - Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 18:06

Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 18:06
HI
Get some other quotes from transmission specialists .
Get your own quote on the oil ,ring the oil companies to get the correct partno .
Most likely have to do at least 20ltrs. Maybe more . Oil companies will advise on qty for service change .
Dry fills [new trans ] and in service trans flush will need the most oil .
AnswerID: 620427

Reply By: RMD - Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 20:09

Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 20:09
Barry P
Swampy is correct in the need to flush near 20litres through the system. It should be done whilst running the trans both in reverse and forward so the servo fluid is at least partially changed as the rest of the flush is done. Having that happen means as much fluid as possible is changed. Unfortunately nearly ALL places don’t change much fluid because of the “drop the pan, fit new filter and refill” only changes the pan fluid which is a small portion of the total volume.
Changing the pan filter and then doing a proper flush will displace the above amount of fluid as it is being drained from the, return to trans line, as the whole operation is completed.
Unless they do the above, you pay for, but don’t get a proper fluid change. You do want it clean inside for maximum life don’t you?

Fluid, filter and the labour shouldn’t be near the figure quoted.
AnswerID: 620430

Follow Up By: Gronk - Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 22:19

Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 22:19
Some dealers don't do trans oil changes, they outsource to an auto trans place.
If you've already dropped some oil out ( how else do you know it's dirty ) and you say it's dirty, then ask a trans place to replace ALL the oil.

I had a service done on my 200 series and it was a drop the pan and replace the screen and approx 4 ltrs of oil....but, the oil was in perfect looking condition. Any good trans place should know if it ALL needs replacing.

In theory, the trans oil never needs replacing ( as most manuals allude to ).....but we all know it does, especially if towing a van.
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FollowupID: 892856

Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 08:20

Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 08:20
Just replacing the filter and lost fluid from that process is similar to half cleaning your teeth, or partially darning a hole in a sock. If it needs it, all should be done.
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FollowupID: 892871

Reply By: Ron N - Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 23:04

Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 at 23:04
The special synthetic oil required for the Ford 6R80 auto transmission is called Mercon LV.

Every oil manufacturer produces a transmission oil which is fully compatible with, and meets Mercon LV specifications.

At $900 for a transmission oil change, you are being right royally shafted with the biggest pineapple they can find - large end first.

Sparesbox - Castrol Transmax transmission oil - meets Mercon LV specs

The main problem with these complex transmissions is that they have a very convoluted system of oiling, and oil passageways.

It takes quite a while to get MOST of the original oil out of the 6R80 transmission, after dropping the transmission oil pan.

To get ALL the oil out of an auto transmission, requires the line to the oil cooler to be removed, and the engine run for maybe 20 secs, to pump all the oil out of the torque converter, oil lines, and passageways.
I do not see Ford recommending this technique for the 6R80 oil change procedure.

The refill of the new oil in a 6R80 transmission is a complex and slow process, to ensure there are no air locks in the transmission oil and lubrication system.

An initial refill of 3.3L is pumped in, and the vehicle is driven until the oil is at 85 to 88 deg C. This enables any air in the transmission oil to be properly purged.

The oil level is then checked (with engine idling and the transmission in Park). If the level is low, it is topped up, very slowly - if it's overfull, the excess oil needs to be sucked out.

The new oil in these transmissions needs to be pumped into the transmission, using a special Ford transmission tool - a transmission fluid evacuator and injector.
If this transmission is accidentally overfilled, a special Ford transmission servicing tool - a hand-operated vacuum pump - is needed to remove the excess oil.
A Vehicle Diagnostics Scan tool (or Vehicle Communication Module, in Ford-speak) is needed to check for correct operation of the transmission, and its operating temperature.

It sounds to me as if the Ford dealer is making you pay through the nose for the sheer pleasure of them using these special transmission servicing tools.

I would find an independent garage that has the ability to service the transmission in the Ford-approved manner, and get them to do it. These people exist - you just need to search them out.

Of course, if the vehicle is still under warranty, then Ford will insist that a Ford dealer do the transmission servicing.

Below is a link to a Ford technical bulletin download, showing the servicing of the Ford F150 transmission - and a link to the Ford Mustang transmission servicing - both of which vehicles use the exact same transmission as the Australian Ford Ranger.

Ford F150 - 6R80 transmission servicing

Ford Mustang - 6R80 transmission servicing

If you do a Google search for "draining and refilling 6R80 transmission", you will get a lot of videos and discussions on 4WD forums, about the process.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 620435

Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 08:14

Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 08:14
How can there’s be air locks in a system which is pressure fed by a hydraulic pump?
Administering fluid to the inlet of the trans is the same is what happens all the time is running while driving.
If you are draining and refilling, preferably at the same time, the transmission doesn’t know anything has changed and can’t need any special testing gear.
Two sections of pvc pipe of sufficient capacity, interconnected so pressure transfer happens, will catch old fluid and inject new fluid at the same rate. Not hard, no special testing just sensible fluid replacement.
No complicated, involved, internet searching is required.
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FollowupID: 892870

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 09:31

Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 09:31
.
Ron,

Some years ago after becoming disillusioned by the service from a major Ford dealer I bought a new Ford from them. I then wrote to Ford head office and queried the requirement to maintain my warranty by exclusive Ford dealer service.
Their reply was that their requirement was to have the vehicle "serviced in accordance with the Ford provisions" adding that they doubted that I could find any independent service workshop who could meet those provisions. I took my chances and had all my servicing including the initial 1000k free service, done independently. Fortunately, I never had a warranty call to test my resolve. These days we have a lawyer in the family! lol

Incidentally, the last straw of the first vehicle, a Cortina, was when the engine fell out. Yes, it really did. The securing bolts of an engine mount worked out leaving the engine at a crazy angle and the throttle cable stretched to produce a very fast idle! The bolts were the type with a flanged head and serrations on the flange face. A fortunately nearby workshop replaced all the mount bolts with high-tensile and spring washers. That's why they call me "Lucky Al" lol
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 892876

Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 09:54

Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 09:54
RMD - You've obviously had very little to do with hydraulic systems, if you don't understand that it's very easy for air locks to be entrained when you have convoluted passageways - exactly the same as some cooling systems of today can develop air locks.

The cooling system air locks in todays vehicles come about, because of modern (aerodynamic) vehicle design, whereby the top of the radiator is often below some coolant passageways in the engine.

Below is a link to a webinar from the American ATRA (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association) showing the design changes to the Ford 6R80 transmission since its earliest production models.

Just one look at the passageways in the hydraulic valve body of the 6R80, might give you some idea of the potential for air entrapment in this transmission.

Webinar - ATRA - Ford 6R80 transmission design updates

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 620446

Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 10:14

Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 10:14
Ron
Can you explain how a newly made and assembled transmission which is then filled with fluid, allows for the chambers and galleries to be purged of air?
They all start life full of air. Then the pump flows fluid through them.
How many electronic autos have you rebuilt?

What makes this transmission so different to any other?
You seem to have an andless supply of internet sources for any situation.

How about some practical, easily conducted procedures which will be of help to most people and assist them in saving money too.
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FollowupID: 892879

Reply By: Gbc.. - Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 10:54

Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 10:54
I have the same car. It cost about $350 to do mine at the local automatic shop 6 months back. My mobile mechanic won't do them because of the equipment required and it is a dirty mess of a job because there isn't a drain plug if you don't have the right gear.
The oil is a dirty brown colour from new so I hope you aren't going by colour alone? Either way it is a good investment getting it done. If your Ford dealers are anything like the ones in Brisbane I wouldn't give them a skateboard to look after. Once mine was out of warranty our mobile bloke started looking after it. What a horror show of neglect it was. It took him two visits to even get the rear drums off which had never been off before (100,000 kms!) - I have a list.
AnswerID: 620447

Reply By: Paul E6 - Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 11:48

Wednesday, Aug 01, 2018 at 11:48
my PX service manual recommends 200k or 10 years between auto trans changes.
AnswerID: 620448

Follow Up By: Gbc.. - Friday, Aug 03, 2018 at 06:07

Friday, Aug 03, 2018 at 06:07
If you tow, or tow off-road you’ll want to do it more often. I did mine at 100 and it needed it. The change in shifting with the new oil was immediately apparent.
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FollowupID: 892915

Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Aug 04, 2018 at 00:10

Saturday, Aug 04, 2018 at 00:10
My dealer did a 16 litre flush with Mercon LV for $450.

Like others, I think the 250k/10 year auto service interval is not appropriate for touring vehicles that are heavy and tow for most of their lives. I had the transmission flush done at 70k after it overheated and went into limp mode a couple of times. That's now been fixed with an aftermarket cooler and fan and an ATF temp gauge (Scangauge) so I can monitor it..
AnswerID: 620493

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