Will triton be right off

Submitted: Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 16:11
ThreadID: 137258 Views:4264 Replies:7 FollowUps:14

https://imgur.com/IpGQE1o
All air bags went off
Also could the bullbar have bent the main rails
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Reply By: RMD - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 17:17

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 17:17
The bullbar is unlikely to have bent much so the chassis rails will be bent.
Not sure about it being "right" but very likely to be a Write Off seeing all the bags have fired too. Plenty of money involved in replacing those.

What did it hit? the pic looks as though it was something hard and high like another vehicle or tray.
If brakes didn't pull it up the shocks may be at fault, the Triton shocks are usually not very effective after a few KM's and render the safety systems unable to perform well. Most people find their shocks are not good by accident.
AnswerID: 621262

Follow Up By: WARREN H7 - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 17:44

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 17:44
hi a car can post How
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FollowupID: 893786

Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 17:48

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 17:48
If all the airbags went off it could be a stat right off and cant be registered again
AnswerID: 621263

Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 23:35

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 23:35
Warren - you can find in the link below, a booklet in PDF form, entitled "Damage Assessment Criteria for the Classification of Statutory Write Offs".

The booklet gives clear guidelines as to how to assess the damage to a vehicle, which would make it classifiable as a Statutory Write Off.

If two main longitudinal rails (sub-frame or chassis) of the vehicle have been damaged by buckling, or by folding over onto themselves, or are cracked - the vehicle is a SWO.

I would suggest the vehicle in the photo is likely to be an SWO - but it would need close examination of the vehicles structural sub-frame/chassis members to determine whether it is an SWO.

It takes very little today to make a vehicle an SWO. Major damage to any safety system of the vehicle, is enough to make it an SWO.

Many SWO's are designated as such, because they are beyond economic repair.

Damage Assessment Criteria for the Classification of Statutory Write-Offs

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 621297

Follow Up By: Keith B2 - Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 08:46

Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 08:46
No really relevant here, but I found this quote from the document interesting:

"Water damage criteria
Where the internal cabin of a vehicle is inundated with any water
(fresh, salt and/or brackish water) such that the internal cabin water
level rises above the level of the inner door sill for any period the
vehicle is to be classified as a SWO."
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FollowupID: 893803

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 09:41

Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 09:41
Keith - Yep - and the reason being, is that many of todays vehicles (European and British lead the way in this design), have ECU's and other vital electrical and safety-related equipment mounted under the seats, or low in the footwells.

Once these items are inundated, they are then regarded as damaged and possibly unreliable.
These items are rarely protected from moisture or dirt as they are regarded as being in a clean environment.

As all vehicles today use the CANBUS system of interconnected ECU's and other important electrical and electronic controllers, it means that water submersion damage to an ECU or electronic controller (mounted anywhere, not just inside the cabin), means that any safety functions it is controlling, or assisting in controlling, may become suspect, and may not function in the event of an emergency or crash.

It is actually illegal to re-use any electrical component, from any SWO vehicle, on any other registered vehicle - but this doesn't stop a large number of people from doing so.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 893805

Reply By: WARREN H7 - Thursday, Sep 27, 2018 at 05:04

Thursday, Sep 27, 2018 at 05:04
update in a battle with nrma see email send to them and same to repairer


To whom it may concern,

I was contacted by the assessor this afternoon (26/9/18) who advised me that this is going to be a repair claim and he was going to give authority for the repairer to proceed.

The assessor informed me that my vehicle sustained structural damage by the impact to the bull bar which is connected to the sub-frame.

I wish to dispute this decision (to repair) as I believe this falls within the National Write-off Vehicle Criteria.. As such I asked the assessor to provide me with evidence that NRMA chooses to repair vehicles with structural damage.

Vehicles in the past that have been repaired in this manner have shown:

- tyre wear to one side

- inability to maintain wheel alignment

- vibration in the steering wheel

I would like a copy of the quotation assessment for my own appraisal.

I also request this matter to please be escalated to a claims manager as I believe this requires urgent attention so that the decision can be discussed with me further.

Could you please mark on the attached drawings showing where the integrity of the vehicle's sub-frame has been compromised.

I would appreciate your urgent response in writing.
AnswerID: 621392

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, Sep 27, 2018 at 07:10

Thursday, Sep 27, 2018 at 07:10
There have been many vehicles repaired after their chassis have been bent and all large repairers have chassis aligning jigs.

The Nrma will guarantee the repair for life of the vehicle, so any problems will fixed if they relate to the repair.

You should be able to accept the cost of the repair from the nrma and give them the vehicle, but I think that is about as good as you are going to get.

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FollowupID: 893882

Reply By: WARREN H7 - Thursday, Sep 27, 2018 at 07:48

Thursday, Sep 27, 2018 at 07:48
Yes but still am not happy as repair is $22,000 and pay out is $33,000. I will still try and to worry them out off it ????

24,500 inc GST
AnswerID: 621395

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Friday, Sep 28, 2018 at 06:52

Friday, Sep 28, 2018 at 06:52
I'm afraid what you are happy with, and what you are entitled to maybe 2 different things.

Without knowing the details, it sounds like NRMA are meeting their obligations.

Good luck with your claim.
Tony
200 with 2012 Tvan Canning.
Happiness >= your perception of the events in your life minus your expectation of how life should be.

Member
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Reply By: Ron N - Friday, Sep 28, 2018 at 22:45

Friday, Sep 28, 2018 at 22:45
As someone who was in business for a number of decades, and as someone who owned at least 200 vehicles during my business career - and who had to deal with many insurance events related to claims, I can quote my insurance broker on the following.

The key two words of any insurance policy is, "to indemnify".

"To indemnify" means that the insured will suffer no loss related to the insurance event.

To make the definition simpler, the term means, that the insured will end up no worse off, nor any better off, after the insured event is finalised.

When you make a claim, you are handing full control of the claim to the insurance company - who are entitled to either repair or write off the vehicle, as they see fit.

In the SWO definitions, a vehicle has to suffer serious structural damage to 3 areas before an SWO is declared.

Unless the Triton has serious structural damage that amounts to cracked or torn structural members - or structural members that are folded back onto themselves (making structural member repair to acceptable manufacturers standards, virtually impossible) - then the insurance company will not write off the vehicle.

The only other way a Statutory Write Off can be declared with just 2 areas of structural damage, is where BOTH sides of the front subframe or chassis members are damaged to the point where they cannot be repaired satisfactorily, and need to be replaced with new structural members.

If the structural members are merely bent, they can be straightened in a hydraulic frame straightener - which machine merely pulls the bent frame member back into correct alignment, to meet the manufacturers alignment guide.

Every major smash repairer that is insurance company approved has a hydraulic frame straightener - and the repairers get detailed specifications and measurements from the manufacturer, to enable correct alignment of every critical body and drivetrain component.

Vehicle bodies under professional repair are checked for diagonal dimension accuracy, for accuracy in wheel track and wheelbase measurements, and for allowable body twist.

If repairs are carried out properly and professionally, you will notice no difference in vehicle handling or performance after the vehicle is returned to you.

Unfortunately, there are two areas where repair problems originate.

One is where repairers employees of low skill are not adequately supervised, and as a result, repairs are not carried out professionally.

These unprofessional repairs are where incorrect fasteners are used, fasteners are left out (because "they're too hard to get at"), fasteners are not tightened properly, and component alignment is not as exacting as the original manufacturers alignment.

It's common today for panel fit gap to be as little as 2mm. The manufacturers do this to improve fuel economy and to reduce wind noise in the cabin.

When such close fits are involved, it is crucial that repairs meet the same close panel gap fits with accuracy.

The other area where repair problems can originate is in lax inspection by the assessor.
An assessor can assess damage to the immediate frontal area - but miss damage that has occurred in other components to the rear of the frontal damage area - or in seemingly unassociated components, such as electrical components and circuitry.

However, the largest percentage of assessors are competent and experienced and know exactly where damage can occur when serious body or frame impact has occurred.
They often work with professional repairers to assess the damage, and the level of difficulty involved, in meeting manufacturers repair standards and specifications.

It is rare today to have a repaired vehicle that does not meet exacting repair standards. The "cowboys" have mostly been drummed out of the industry.

Having said all that, I must say I am surprised that the insurance company is prepared to proceed with the major repair on the Triton.

The Triton would bring considerably more money, at a (repairable) damaged vehicle auction, than the difference between the quoted repair cost, and the payout cost.

In other words, the vehicle is repairable, but not really economic to repair for the company.

In nearly every insurance claim instance that I have been involved with, the insurance company doesn't hesitate to write off a vehicle that may be quite viable to repair - but where the cost of the repair makes it a borderline decision.

The last claim I was involved with, a distracted driver ran into the rear of my missus's Camry while I was at the wheel - but when I was stopped, and parked correctly at the kerb.

The damage to the rear of the Camry was substantial - even to the point of springing the RHS rear door frame opening so much, the rear of the door frame chipped the paint on the rear door.

Both rear subframes were distorted, but not buckled. The towbar absorbed a lot of the impact.

The car was professionally repaired by a repairer of high standard (which repair included pulling out all the rear subframe distortion) - and all the doors and panels were returned to a perfect fit, and the car drove and handled just as well after the accident, as before.

However, the repair cost was only around 1/3rd of the Camrys insured value, not 2/3rds.
I would have expected that any repair that ran to 2/3rds of the insured value, the company would almost certainly declare it an uneconomic write off - but not a Statutory Write Off.

The auction yards are full of seriously-damaged vehicles that are classed as "Repairable Write Offs" - but where the insurance company prefers to sell the wreck, and let someone else with enthusiasm, and plenty of money, repair it.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 621416

Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 08:36

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 08:36
Warren - I'm not sure what state you reside in (you mention NRMA, so I'm presuming NSW) - but if you do, there are other important factors that come into play in NSW, once you end up with a repaired vehicle, after a major repair that is classified as a Repairable Write Off.

John Cadogan outlines the situation you face with a vehicle in NSW, that has undergone major damage repair.

The considerations involved relate to the vehicles lowered resale value, the inability to undergo re-registration in NSW, if it has been declared an RWO (and the rego lapses) - and the fine print in numerous manufacturers warranty wording, whereupon the manufacturers warranty is void once the vehicle is declared an RWO.

There is also the issue of future insurability of the vehicle, if you swap to another insurer.
It appears many insurers are unwilling to insure any vehicle that has been an RWO - or the premiums will be higher, if they do agree to insure it.

Buying a written off vehicle in NSW

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 621417

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 08:41

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 08:41
It only becomes a Repairable Write Off after it has been written off, a repaired vehicle is simply that, a repaired vehicle that carries no stigma.
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FollowupID: 893905

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 10:12

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 10:12
Yes, I should have made that clear - Warrens insurance company is refusing to declare his Triton a Write Off - but he wishes to have it declared a Write Off.

It is entirely the insurance companys decision whether to declare a Write Off, or not.

The Financial Rights website below, offers some advice that is relevant to Warrens case, under the heading "I am insured, and my insurer refuses to write off my car".

Essentially, Warren can go to Insurance Dispute Resolution, and if he's still not satisfied, to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

I personally think he has a good case to have the vehicle declared a Write Off, and to be paid out in full.

Insurance Law - vehicle Write Offs

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 893906

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 10:46

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 10:46
It can sometimes appear to be a good idea to try to have your vehicle written off, but you do lose all your accessories/modifications which can amount to a substantial extra cost when preparing the replacement vehicle.
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FollowupID: 893907

Follow Up By: WARREN H7 - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 10:56

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 10:56
Thanks for your help guys this is the last email to NRMA Claims manager Also i am QLD
The Claims Manager,
I refer to the attached email and the conversation that followed (today 27/9/18) with a team leader in the assessing department.
While this is not the absolute conversation, I can only repeat what I understood to be the main points.
I was told that my vehicle has 2x structural damages to the main frame (this to me is a major concern to the integrity of my vehicle).
As a result of this, I understand the procedure to now be that my main frame will be put onto some type of mechanical straightener.
Should this not be successful, these proposals were put to me:
New main frame (4-5 month wait)- This is an unacceptable timeframe
2nd hand used frame or 'parts of'- I will not accept 2nd hand parts on a 2 year old vehicle.
That the vehicle was in the process of being assessed by Pickles Auctions of it's salvage cost. I asked if the salvage price would be, say $5000? The assessor said "I think a bit more than that."
None of this makes any sense whatsoever with a repair cost at $24738.71 (estimate only - can inflate); salvage cost of in excess of $5000; and 2 damaged structural areas of the main frame; and with an agreed insurance value of $33,000.00.
I feel I need to express my disappointment in how this claim has been managed from the very beginning with my (not at fault claim) being lodged on the 11/9/18.
I have lost all faith with NRMA as so far, they have not looked after my best interests which now leaves (both myself and my wife) no choice but to reconsider all of our policies.
Can you please give the my first email and this email to a claims manager.
I also ask that the claims manager please contact me on 049******** as a matter of urgency in response to my concerns.
Regards,
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FollowupID: 893909

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:34

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:34
Pickles refuse to leave up or display the actual sale prices of their auction items - which I consider to be quite a devious move.

Graysonline leave their actual auction sale prices up for several years, enabling one to get a better idea of actual sale prices for any particular auction item, for its condition.

I am a regular auction buyer of many items, and I can tell you this much - a 2 yr old Triton with that amount of damage, put up for auction, would bring almost certainly bring a sale price of around $10,000 at auction here, in W.A.

A farmer mate went to sleep and ran off the road recently with his 2009 Nissan Patrol traytop ute. The ute had done 270,000kms.

The damage did not appear to be substantial - merely some LH frontal damage, including buckled front suspension on that side, and some damage to the front corner of the tray on the passenger side. The airbags never went off.

It was market valued at $17,000 by the insurance company, who declared it a Repairable Write Off and who declined to repair it themselves.

They paid my mate out in full, and the Nissan went to salvage auction, where it brought $9000 - and the buyer bought it with the intention to repair it and re-register it.

Late model 4WD's with modest crash damage bring very good money at salvage auctions - often a lot more than I would ever imagined, or be prepared to pay.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 893910

Follow Up By: WARREN H7 - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:40

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:40
Thanks Ron even make less senseto me. What is their thinking here
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FollowupID: 893913

Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 12:00

Saturday, Sep 29, 2018 at 12:00
Occasionally, there are decidedly underhand deals between assessors and crash repairers, to ensure the crash repairer gets repair work, when business is slow.

The problem for the repairers is that major crash repair work gets less and less every year, because of the high cost of major repairs, disputes after unsatisfactory repair work, and the fact that most insurance companies generally prefer to write vehicles off, if they have sustained major damage.

The complexity of vehicles today makes major repairs a minefield, with a huge amount of electrical components that are all linked, and many of them, safety-item related.

I have seen dozens and dozens of vehicles declared write-offs, when it appeared that the damage was quite minimal, and very repairable.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 893914

Follow Up By: WARREN H7 - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 06:21

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 06:21
Car is a write off finally
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FollowupID: 893993

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 10:30

Tuesday, Oct 09, 2018 at 10:30
With $22,000 worth of damage, that makes a lot of sense to me.
Glad you finally negotiated an outcome that you wanted, and which gives you the ability to buy another new replacement vehicle.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 893995

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