Toyota DPF

Submitted: Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 19:18
ThreadID: 137340 Views:2692 Replies:13 FollowUps:31
Gday
I was just wondering how many High Lux with DPF will burn to the ground when out in the desert with grasses caught up in the exhaust.
Muzbry
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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 19:42

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 19:42
DPF is in the engine bay and all new Diesel have DPF's
AnswerID: 621579

Reply By: Greg J1 - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 20:21

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 20:21
Most diesels have them now. Welcome to the future. No need to just pick on Toyota.

Cheers Greg
AnswerID: 621580

Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 20:46

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 20:46
Gday
I wasnt just picking on Toyota, it was the only vehicle that i have read about today that has the DPF .
So if the DPF is under the bonnet , does that stop the rest of the system getting hot, and grass accumulation under the exhaust?
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 20:58

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 20:58
How many Hiluxs have burnt down in the 2 or 3 years the dpf have been fitted to them ?
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Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 22:35

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 22:35
Only the ones which catch fire will possibly burn to the ground.
A DPF or DPD as Isuzu name it, can get hot but the rest of the exhaust of a diesel runs cooler than a petrol engine exhaust. With the exhaust pipe diameter most use, the gas cools quite quickly as it expands, so apart from the very front section there shouldn't be a problem.
Only IF running in areas with likely grasses will there be a problem. Because of the heightened awareness, most travellers should have a stout wire hook to remove problems grass before it builds up AND check AND have an extinguisher handy as a back up.

With a sensble attitude to driving the vehicle in likely areas, none should catch fire.

Any build up on rotating parts may be a problem but that is unrelated to the exhaust system. Vigilance, not drive and think,"she'll be right mate".

A pressurized used fire extinguisher with water inside is good to have. Just in case 'one' never checks.
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 21:47

Sunday, Oct 14, 2018 at 21:47
There are a lot of issues with the 2.8 litre DPF not working correctly and causing massive clouds of white smoke to blow out the exhaust. According to other fora,Toyota hasn't solved the problem yet.
AnswerID: 621584

Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 00:29

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 00:29
I just had a tradie install a fence and he's a Toyota man, and owns a current-model 2.8L automatic Hilux dualcab with DPF.

He's done 90,000km with it, and he's not a happy camper. He owned a 2011 model, 3.0L Hilux previously, which he passed onto his son.

He is so peed-off with his current Hilux, he reckons he's going to trade it in on a D-Max.

It is much thirstier than his old Hilux, and has given him constant grief with oil leaks, injector problems, driveshaft clunking, air cleaner faults, and constant DPF problems.

It's well-known that any diesel fitted with a DPF has worse fuel consumption than its precedessor model without DPF.

He says his old Hilux is still running faultlessly at 200,000kms under his sons ownership.

There have been no current-model Hilux fires that I know of - but I now know a fair few, current-model Hilux owners, that are preparing to burn them!

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 621589

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 06:18

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 06:18
Ron, when you say that it's well known that a vehicle with DPF has worse fuel consumption. Who is it well known with? Not the owners surely.

I had a 2008 200 series. I got a 2016 with the DPF. It has 1.5 lp100 km better fuel economy. That is the consensis opinion on LCOOL too.

I've never seen a burn other than on the freeway by normal exhaust heat.

There is a lot of uninformed info out there about DPF. Yours is included.



Tony
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:09

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:09
There's nothing uninformed about my information, you need additional fuel to burn off the particulates in the DPF - so where does that extra fuel come from? - out of thin air??

You're an apologist for the latest exhaust emission technology, that is proven to be constantly troublesome, expensive, and which increases fuel consumption - and which on every level, is a failure for current vehicle owners.

The Conversation - DPF problems

John Cadogan doesn't mince matters when it comes to DPF problems on the current 2.8L Hilux.

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:09

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:09
Ron, I think it's a stretch to say I am an apologist for the latest exhaust technology. I seriously don't give a damm. You are just plainly wrong and uninformed. That's all.

Sure there are well documented problems with the 2.8l Toyota diesel. But throwing a John Cadogan youtube video on a known problem as proof of all DPF's using fuel, or anything other than he makes money from youtube and services by making outragous statements proves nothing.

You should check how DPF works. Normally it uses the exhaust temps from normal driving. In the case of a 200 it regenerates from the normal exhaust temp at speeds above 60. THAT USES NO EXTRA FUEL!

Extra fuel is used when you don't go over 60 for some period, then a fuel burn is done. I have never done that.

I find it fascinating that you claim to know more about my vehicles fuel economy over the last 10 years than I do.

Amazing.
Tony
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:47

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:47
I'm fully aware of the difference between passive and active DPF regeneration.

The problem is, you would one of the very few owners driving at substantial enough speeds and loads, to be able to constantly do passive DPF regeneration.

95% of the DPF-fitted vehicles on the road today rarely do enough highway speed, or operate under enough load, to do regular passive regeneration.
As a result they regularly have to do active regeneration, which uses more fuel.

Probably around 80% of 200 series 'Cruisers are used as shopping trolleys in the city, resulting in the need for near-constant active DPF regeneration.
There are still repeated DPF problems with 200 series Cruisers.

We won't even start on the cost of replacing DPF's. Of course, most well-heeled 200 series owners are quite happy to replace their 200 series long before it needs a replacement DPF, thus leaving the massive DPF replacement cost to the new sucker owner.

I stand by what I say - DPF's are an emissions control technological and engineering failure, and they only burden owners of DPF-fitted vehicles with additional motoring costs.

Berrima Diesel - DPF's
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 13:49

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2018 at 13:49
I guess it's reasonable that if you know one individual, who you have never met's fuel economy, it would be easy to work out the actual % driving use of all other vehicle owners, how fast they travel day to day, and when they will sell their vehicles.

The DPF in a 200 regenerates at 60kmph btw. Not highway speeds.

Where are the repeated DPF problems on the 200? Sure there was a batch in early 2016 - not good at all but rectified I guess, but check your facts, that is not the case now. The link you provide is old.


Sure, I'd rather not have a DPF and there have been problems but you seem to exagerate or make up the issues.

You have said
I am an apologist for diesel - Seriously?
My vehicle uses more fuel - not true for my car or other 200 reports, they use less
Oh, then I must drive at highway speeds - not necessarily.
95% of DPF owners don't get to highway speeds.
You need to drive at highway speeds for a regen. Nope 60kmph
80% of 200 owners only use their vehicles as shopping trolleys. Possibly right. About the same as any other 4wd i'd say

Tony
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Sunday, Oct 21, 2018 at 05:31

Sunday, Oct 21, 2018 at 05:31
If the DPF is not within spec or partially blocked then it upsets fuel economy. I had a new DPF fitted and got 80kms extra from my tank. Unfortunately emissions is getting harder to meet with Diesel hence why we also now see Adblue. Poor diesel quality doesn't help the cause either.
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Follow Up By: John Baas - Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 23:03

Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 23:03
I acknowledge I'm not technically competent to comment on the relative fuel usage issue from a 'technicalities' perspective.

But... I've just taken delivery (Sept) of a new diesel LC200 with exactly the same 'after market' set-up that was on my previous 2008 LC200 (half of it came across)..

And, guess what... on a 2000 kay run out to Rawlinna from Perth on bitumen, gravel, and the Cocklebiddy to Rawlinna track, and back to base on the Trans, and the Hyden-Norseman Road both ways, the new bus is at least 1L per 100 kay lighter on usage than the previous (probably 1.5 L/100K).

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 06:36

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 06:36
Careful John, you'll be accused of being a diesel pollution control apologist or Toyota bigot on this forum.

Never forget that some people this forum who have met you, know more about your personal particulars than you do.

Tony
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 06:59

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 06:59
Why can't we all be friends? :-) You guys are probably both right in actual fact. All new cars are designed to have better fuel economy and power per cube than the older versions. They also have to have better emissions control. If you stripped out the emissions control they would have even more power and even better fuel economy. If the emissions control stops working properly then everything turns to crap, just like any other part of your engine. It's another thing that can go wrong.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:56

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:56
Michael - In the real world, manufacturers lie through their teeth about their advertised fuel economy - increased numbers of emissions controls devices run counter to improved fuel economy (i.e. - every emissions control device worsens fuel economy) - and manufacturers have only been forced, kicking and screaming, by Govts and legislation, to produce more economical vehicles.

They have done that by producing a lot more smaller vehicles, hybrids, and via weight-saving, by the extensive use of plastics and light alloys.

When you understand that the major oil companies and the major vehicle (and machinery) manufacturers regularly share common directors, you begin to get an understanding why the automotive manufacturers only pay lip service to fuel economy.

The bottom line is, anyone who buys a 200 series Cruiser doesn't give two knobs of the proverbial goat dung about fuel economy - they've just spent between $90K and $120K on a 2.7+ tonne 4WD, to get total luxury and maximum power - and they're always looking for tax deductions, and fuel is a major tax deduction for all of the 200 series owners.

The BS part is that Toyota advertises a fuel economy of 9.5L/100 kms for the 200 Series Cruiser, and there's not a single 200 series owner that I know that has ever got that level of claimed economy on a regular basis. And yes, there are several 200 series owners in my immediate family and close friends.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: John Baas - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 12:25

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 12:25
Hi all; me again.

I agree that the 'claimed' fuel economy for the 200 is BS.

For the trip I just undertook, the average fuel usage for the old bus would have been about 15l/100Km. The new bus gave me an average of about 14L/100Km.

Best I got was 12L/100Km on bitumen with a light following wind; worst was 16.5L/100Km on good gravel into a strong wind head on.

However, it needs to be noted that I had a big load of camping gear on the roof racks giving a fair amount of additional wind resistance, and I would have been at max GVM weight at about 3.7t.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 14:11

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 14:11
I drove a VW Touareg around Europe, a decently heavy car with a 3.5 tonne tow capacity and a V6 3litre diesel, and it was getting around 8.5 litres per hundred normal driving. It's why you don't see any 200's over there when diesel is the equivalent of $2.50 a litre.
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Reply By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 06:52

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 06:52
Mate, this may help you out with your question.

Hilux Dpf info
AnswerID: 621590

Reply By: mynance - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 07:26

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 07:26
I have been told by service manager that the 5th injector in the early 2.8 was seated incorrectly and would carbon over stopping this injector from functioning allowing the DPF to clog.

Myles
AnswerID: 621592

Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 16:43

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 16:43
I doubt the fluid pressure involved would be stopped by carbon.
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Follow Up By: Nick T2 - Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:13

Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:13
Where is the 5th injector on a 4 pot?
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Follow Up By: mynance - Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:34

Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:34
5th injector supplies the fuel for the DPF burn but originally was seated too deeply in the housing and would carbon over as it only gets used when a burn is needed.
Myles
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 17:22

Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 17:22
I don't think it's a normal high pressure injector.
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FollowupID: 894231

Reply By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 12:15

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 12:15
Personally, I feel all emissions controls have their issues.
EGR, DPF, Adblue, all have their drawbacks !!

We are stuck with them though, at least if people remain legal.

If I had to have to have one of the above, I think it would be Adblue, despite the need to ensure you have enough for your journey, and / or carry some as required.
2nd choice would be DPF, lastly EGR . . . not sure if there are more options than this to conform to Euro emissions that GOVCOs are forcing on the market.

I'm not sure why I put Adblue over DPF.
I know DPF is supposedly the least intrusive / hassle, and it only needs to be replaced (or serviced ?) after a certain time or number of operations ??

As far as DPF (and exhaust systems in general) potentially starting spinifex fires, it was mentioned fire extinguishers in one post.
I feel that any usual chemical or foam extinguisher will be very poor in such circumstances.
(Certainly, carry one or two small extinguishers for general vehicle safety !!)

Get one of these sprayers from Bunnings, with the nozzle opened right out, they delivery 5lt of water in a good soaking 'wet' spray, besides the fact water is far better for grass fires, the reach of the arm is very handy.
They spray for ages with 5lt of water, although soaking extremely well.



Hook out grass as it becomes soaked, respray, repeat until grass is all out from around the area and soaked.
Hooking it out initially can cause a fire to flare as you are getting oxygen into it, so soak, remove some, soak, a few times to avoid that.

On a near 14k km, 5 state trip in June / July we went up the WA centre (Esperance to Pilbara), spinifex was very bad, we had to stop every couple of hours to hook out problem areas to avoid any potential fires.
That is a far better solution to be proactive in undercarriage clearance instead of a probable smouldering spinifex build up eventually sparking to life.
AnswerID: 621600

Follow Up By: Gbc.. - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 14:02

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 14:02
Unfortunately AdBlu is injected into the DPF, ergo all adblu cars have a DPF as well.

Also, throw in a little truckwash/dishwashing liquid into the 5 litre sprayer as well and you have just added surfactant and made your water even better at putting out fires.
2
FollowupID: 894144

Reply By: Greg J1 - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 17:12

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 17:12
Dpf’s are fitted to most diesels now. It’s not a Toyota thing. Caterpillar, Cummins, Detroit, John Deere, the hoard of Japanese and European manufactures. To name a few. Cummins especially have had a lot of problems with there early model dpf engines.

Just the way it is these days. A lot of these engines work in dusty dry conditions and how often do you hear about fires caused by a dpf doing a burn.

As Les and a few others have pointed out, 4WD’s burning in the desert has more to do with peoples negligence to cleaning flamible material away from exhausts than it is to the dpf.
I bet that Ford Explorer burnt out on the canning years ago didn’t have a dpf fitted. I think there’s more risk with a petrol powered vehicle.

The op says grasses caught around the exhaust. That is the problem. Not the dpf

Cheers Greg
AnswerID: 621602

Reply By: Member - kyle46 - Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 21:26

Monday, Oct 15, 2018 at 21:26
hilux got a dpf urdate from late june 18.
apparently they burn hotter now. my work ute has to go back to Toyota for the upgrade only downside is they say it's a 4.5 to 6 hr job. can't see why but both dealers I asked told a similar story
AnswerID: 621609

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2018 at 07:31

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2018 at 07:31
Gday Muz,
Hope you are well.
Looking after a relative's 2018 Hilux while they are overseas. Crawled under it to see what the DPF looked like and couldn't find it!!! As mentioned above, it is well out of the way in the engine bay.
So was down at CMI yesterday and looked under the Landcruisers and the DPFs are very low and noticeable - looked like they have a protective cage around them - looks more like a recipe for a grass fire but I guess with time we'll find out. At least they have a switch so you can do a burn before you hit the desert.

I'm thinking my next 4wd will be petrol but getting very hard to find a petrol 4wd or ute.

Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 621631

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 16:48

Thursday, Oct 18, 2018 at 16:48
Phil,

Yes it does look open down there. The good news is that a 200 won't do a burn under 60kmph. It also won't do a burn when you pull up ( in grass unless it needs a burn AND you press the button.

The whole thing worried me and I looked into it in a lot of detail. Even got the head mechanic who I trust at a dealer to check with Toyota. The only danger I can see is if you go in tall grass at speeds over 60. I still have a wire hook and check for caught up grass etc. But I always worried about that even in my older vehicles.
Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Oct 20, 2018 at 00:56

Saturday, Oct 20, 2018 at 00:56
Hi Tony,
Was thinking about updating the 200series so also looking at the DPF issue. My wife had a VW Tiguan with DPF for the past 7 years and it simply looked after itself - never had an issue. But sometimes you park it in the garage and the cooling fan kept going because the DPF was doing a burn. Lot of heat under the bonnet.
So have a bit of respect for how much heat these things put out.
Having a button to force a burn is great, but still its an extra thing to manage when you are well off the beaten track.
Petrol vehicles run hot exhausts too - so so far there is no perfect solution.
Might be up for new Turbos on my 2012 Altitude - not impressed that we are throwing Turbo codes at 108,000k !!!
See what happens after a dealer has checked it out next week.
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Follow Up By: axle - Saturday, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:01

Saturday, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:01
G/Day Phil, ..Not much use talking to Boobook about Toyota probs, unfortunately he suffers from a very probmatic disease!.{.NCGWWT}


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, Oct 20, 2018 at 16:39

Saturday, Oct 20, 2018 at 16:39
Thanks Axle.
I think that's the first time I have ever seen you reply to any thread, even including the ones you start.

Unbelievable.I'm honoured. Thanks.

Haven't seen your troll of the month thread on EO for a few months though. I hope you've been well.

This is what I am much more used to seeing
Monthly Troll

The formula is pick some topic that's contentious.

Set up a seemingly personal story.

Ask what people think.

Sit back and watch people react to your hand grenades.
Don't participate in that or any other conversations. Even if people ask you questions in your own threads.
Repeat in about a month.

See if you can find a thread where you have replied. Especially one you didn't lob into the forum. Apart from this one or the last time I called you out on this.


"In Internet slang, a troll (/tro?l, tr?l/) is a person who starts quarrels"
Tony
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Follow Up By: axle - Sunday, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:05

Sunday, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:05
You can certainly dish it out mate!!, But can't take one tiny criticism.



Your a recipe for the greatest argument around here than anybody!


When someone refers to a problem with a Toyota you keep going to the latest model saying theres no problem!!. What about the poor buggers that own something a few years old and are having issues?, You continue to make out its all been fixed. Your in Denial.!....Any way your not going to change, and guess what!?, neither am I...…..Cheers Axle.
3
FollowupID: 894278

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, Oct 21, 2018 at 15:22

Sunday, Oct 21, 2018 at 15:22
2 Replies in 5 years Axel.
Tony
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 14:26

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 14:26
Did someone say their VW Tiguan never had DPF issues? VW's don't have any diesel pollution systems please refer to VW Dieselgate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

When you've been caught deliberately injecting pollution into the atmosphere the VW name isn't the best comparison.

In humour...
1
FollowupID: 894327

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 18:33

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2018 at 18:33
Yeah the perfect DPF - only works when being tested for emissions :-)

Actually the DPF did work - could eat your breakfast off the exhaust......except it was so hot the eggs would burn and create their own carbon :-)
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FollowupID: 894333

Reply By: nickb - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2018 at 00:28

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2018 at 00:28
In the last few months I have seen about 6-7 late model hiluxes blowing large amounts of white/blue smoke, now I know why!!!
AnswerID: 621739

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:48

Wednesday, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:48
It is not only late-model Hiluxes that are visible smoke producers.

I have personally and regularly seen sizeable numbers of very late-model European vehicles - that I am sure have DPF's fitted - spewing out enough highly-visible black smoke under heavy acceleration, enough to put them off the road.

I'm not sure about other States, but here in W.A., exhaust smoke visible for a continuous period of 10 seconds, warrants a yellow sticker.

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FollowupID: 894365

Follow Up By: nickb - Friday, Oct 26, 2018 at 23:21

Friday, Oct 26, 2018 at 23:21
Yes, have seen some Navaras and some euro vans blowing lots of black smoke but only seen the hilux blowing white/blue smoke.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Oct 27, 2018 at 08:25

Saturday, Oct 27, 2018 at 08:25
Black smoke often just means a split or ho!e in the intercooler hose.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Saturday, Oct 27, 2018 at 20:27

Saturday, Oct 27, 2018 at 20:27
nickb, from what I’ve seen, Navaras ALWAYS blow lots of black smoke, generally under acceleration.
:D
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