Lithium battery fires

Could have been the DPF perhaps!

Very poor taste RMD!

Cheers

Anthony

ACD1
I can't see what you are meaning at all. The reference of Muzbry's,t to a % of fires of scooter batteries was intriguing as he asked a similar question of DPF on Hilux.

The %ages don't really matter if you aren't affected and do matter if affected. Sadly the scooter fire claimed a life, % didn't matter there, it happened for some reason. Luck of draw. No disrespect to the WA fire from me.

Unfortunately some cars suddenly have erupted in flames too and they don't have Lithium batteries. Again percentage isn't the issue.

Perhaps you could have put as much thought into your first response.

Someone's loved one lost their life in one of the most horrendous ways.

I have been present and unable to do anything as a young father burnt to death while trapped in a car wreck as a held his two children that I helped pull out of the car.

A flippant response is less than respectful.

Cheers

Anthony

Gday
I think you two need to sit for a while with me and have a chat.Maybe a coffee or two. You seem to think i am some sort of ogre.
I had no answer to the dpf question , and none to the scooter question. I like to know the % ages to most things.

All good with your response Muz

My reply was to RMD's.

Cheers

Anthony

Your idea of scaremongering must be different to mine. He was only alerting people to a real life possibility. Plenty of people out very ignorant when it comes to anything mechanical or electrical..

I,d say all batteries. Common sense just aint so common for many..

Sorry skulldog, can’t find the humour in that. I hope I don’t laugh when you catch fire.

Greg,

I was going to contribute my own experiences to an earlier thread but I decided not to because of the hysterical nonsense that lithium batteries seem to attract. Ron's post is the perfect example.

Thanks for the kind wishes anyway.

Skull

You saved me the trouble of saying exactly that mate..... nowhere did it mention lithium in the article. I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of mobility scooters are (still) powered by LA batteries.

Bill yes I know where you are coming from. I know one thing, most fires the total heavy trucks are started by good old fashioned lead acid batteries.

Frank, I wasn't trying to be unnecessarily alarmist, I'm sorry if my post was interpreted that way.

However - the simple fact remains that Lithium batteries, of any type, still pose a potentially-serious fire risk, particularly in transportation.

As a result, there is plenty of transportation warnings that many of the above readers might also interpret as "alarmist" - but the risks are real, and the fire history of Lithium batteries prove that the risk is still of great concern.

I would really like to share your opinion that Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries are very safe - but the following technical article makes no such distinction between safety levels of the various types of Lithium batteries.

I'd like to believe contributors to this thread are mature enough to have a robust and intelligent, and wide-ranging discussion, over the potential fire risk of Lithium batteries - however some contributors here don't appear to possess that level of maturity, judging by the level of comment.

NCBI - Transportation Safety of Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries

Cheers, Ron.

Ron,

It is worth noting that lead acid batteries are also classed as hazardous cargo.

That NCBI article is a very academic study pertaining to aviation transport of lithium batteries. Its aim is to show that any risks associated with air transport of lithium batteries can be significantly reduced by transporting them in a discharged state. The thrust of the paper is not relevant to the use of lithium batteries in a land-based RV environment.

Nevertheless, it highlights the need for the batteries to be handled correctly and loaded and stored appropriately in an aircraft cargo hold. In Table 2, in the first two incidents there were fires near the batteries but it could not be determined that the fires were caused BY the batteries. In all the other incidents the fires were attributed to the batteries being mishandled, poorly packaged or being short circuited externally (presumably by something falling on them). It's not the batteries themselves that were the problem, it was what was done to them.

IMO the risks discussed in that article are not representative of the risks in recreational use we are talking about here on EO. We are not talking about pallet loads of batteries stacked amongst other cargo. We are talking about a single battery or maybe two or three, restrained as you would a lead acid battery bank, presumably in a closed compartment or otherwise separated from recreational paraphernalia, in service with an appropriate battery management system.

Yes, there are risks, just as there are with big lead-acid battery banks. Properly and appropriately mitigated with physical restraints, physical isolation, fusing, insulation, quality cabling and BMSs - what we do with any battery installation - the risks in day to day use for each type (lead acid and LiFePO4) become as acceptable as any other recreational activity.

To that end I agree 100% with your points 1 to 5 in your opening post.

Cheers Frank

No-one knows at this stage, what battery was in the scooter, and we won't know until the coroner produces his report.

But - there are a range of Lithium batteries being recommended for mobility scooter use, their useage in increasing, as scooter owners desire better battery life - and this scooter fire event has all the hallmarks of a runaway Lithium battery fire, which produces a very rapid and ferocious burn rate.

I find it hard to believe that a lead-acid battery short-circuit would produce such a rapid fire, that the rider would not be able to dismount - even if he/she was very slow in their movements.

I await the coroners report with interest.

Cheers, Ron.

Good try Ron, but, we don't know.

Have attended several fires started by simple tech lead acid batteries, I can attest to the fast and furious rate of burn possible.

If you are having trouble understanding how a mobility scooter rider might have have trouble dismounting, pop down to the local retirement home and notice the number of people who require the help of two assistants to get into and out of their mobility aid.

Iza