Lithium battery fires
Submitted: Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:48
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Ron N
Just a reminder to those wanting to install Li-ion batteries, that the threat of runaway fire from these batteries is still a very real event - particularly if they suffer damage in some way.
But even without suffering damage, there is still a worrying number of Lithium fires that happen, just with no precipitating damage event.
The full story isn't in yet, but it appears a runaway Lithium battery fire has taken the life of a person using a mobility scooter in
Geraldton, W.A.
What is even more concerning, is that bystanders were completely unable to save the gent, due to the ferociousness of the battery fire.
Lithium battery smoke is extremely toxic and can kill you a lot faster than plain wood smoke, because of the toxic chemicals being burnt in an Li-ion battery fire.
It appears there are two areas where care must be taken with regard to preventing Li-ion fires -
1. Only buy top-quality, brand-name batteries, that have been produced under top-class quality control. Numbers of cheap Chinese Li-ion batteries have suspect QC.
2. Ensure your Li-ion battery charger is set up correctly, or you are using the correct charger for your Li-ion battery. Overcharging is a common cause of Li-ion battery fires.
3. Ensure your Li-ion batteries can't get too hot. Keep them out of direct strong sunlight in enclosed areas, or areas where heat is being generated. Ensure that the battery storage area has adequate ventilation to carry away generated heat.
4. Ensure that any possibility of penetrative accidents is minimised. This means that you don't store batteries (permanently or temporarily) where any sharp object could fall on them.
5. Keep a dry powder fire extinguisher located within reach of your permanent Li-ion batteries location, to enable a quick response to any battery fire.
Man dies in mobility scooter fire - GeraldtonABC News - electric scooter in China catches fire whilst chargingBattery University - safety concerns surrounding Li-ion batteries
Cheers, Ron.
Reply By: Member - peter_mcc - Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:15
Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:15
There are many different type of lithium batteries. Most car/caravan batteries are LiFePo4 cells which are very stable. Yes, if you abuse them enough they have problems but so does a normal lead/acid battery.
Batteries in phones, laptops, etc are a different chemistry - eg Lithium polymer - which isn't as stable. They are more energy dense which is why they are used in phones/etc. Once they get too hot they catch fire and explode.
I don't know what the poor WA guys's scooter used but a quick.
When people say "lithium battery" you need to know exactly what they are talking about - LiFePo4? Lipo? As a comparison, diesel is a lot less dangerous than petrol...
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 18:50
Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 18:50
Ron,
I generally look forward to reading your informative posts, but this one I find a bit unnecessarily alarmist.
The
Geraldton and ABC links do not mention battery types or chemistries, so on the face of the info presented cannot be linked to lithium batteries. I would think any battery suitable for the respective applications, or their chargers, could start a fire in the right circumstances.
Just as there are various chemistries or flavours of lead-acid battery technology, so there are with lithium.
Some of the more energy-dense technologies are more critical and less tolerant of operator, installation or manufacturing errors, as Sony and Samsung found out with their lithium polymer batteries and Boeing with its lithium ion.
There is a world of difference between lithium ION and lithium IRON but people often confuse the terms because they sound the same. I suspect you may be a victim of that confusion.
The batteries we are discussing for recreational use in RVs are lithium IRON phosphate, LiFePO4. These are the ones readily available to the recreational market and are what posters here in EO are referring to as lithium batteries. This chemistry is inherently more stable than the lithium ION batteries you posted about.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 21:49
Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 21:49
Frank, I wasn't trying to be unnecessarily alarmist, I'm sorry if my post was interpreted that way.
However - the simple fact remains that Lithium batteries, of any type, still pose a potentially-serious fire risk, particularly in transportation.
As a result, there is plenty of transportation warnings that many of the above readers might also interpret as "alarmist" - but the risks are real, and the fire history of Lithium batteries prove that the risk is still of great concern.
I would really like to share your opinion that Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries are very safe - but the following technical article makes no such distinction between safety levels of the various types of Lithium batteries.
I'd like to believe contributors to this thread are mature enough to have a robust and intelligent, and wide-ranging discussion, over the potential fire risk of Lithium batteries - however some contributors here don't appear to possess that level of maturity, judging by the level of comment.
NCBI - Transportation Safety of Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries
Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 23:15
Monday, Oct 22, 2018 at 23:15
Ron,
It is worth noting that lead acid batteries are also classed as hazardous cargo.
That NCBI article is a very academic study pertaining to aviation transport of lithium batteries. Its aim is to show that any risks associated with air transport of lithium batteries can be significantly reduced by transporting them in a discharged state. The thrust of the paper is not relevant to the use of lithium batteries in a land-based RV environment.
Nevertheless, it highlights the need for the batteries to be handled correctly and loaded and stored appropriately in an aircraft cargo hold. In Table 2, in the first two incidents there were fires near the batteries but it could not be determined that the fires were caused BY the batteries. In all the other incidents the fires were attributed to the batteries being mishandled, poorly packaged or being short circuited externally (presumably by something falling on them). It's not the batteries themselves that were the problem, it was what was done to them.
IMO the risks discussed in that article are not representative of the risks in recreational use we are talking about here on EO. We are not talking about pallet loads of batteries stacked amongst other cargo. We are talking about a single battery or maybe two or three, restrained as you would a lead acid battery bank, presumably in a closed compartment or otherwise separated from recreational paraphernalia, in service with an appropriate battery management system.
Yes, there are risks, just as there are with big lead-acid battery banks. Properly and appropriately mitigated with physical restraints, physical isolation, fusing, insulation, quality cabling and BMSs - what we do with any battery installation - the risks in day to day use for each type (lead acid and LiFePO4) become as acceptable as any other recreational activity.
To that end I agree 100% with your points 1 to 5 in your opening post.
Cheers Frank
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