What have you done for rust protection?

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 15:37
ThreadID: 137406 Views:1409 Replies:13 FollowUps:20
Looking for advice around rust proofing for a new 4wd.

The options seem to be:
- Electronic rust protection – conflicting reports as to whether it works, but people that have it seem to like it
- Chemical rust protection – underbody and panel application, can scratch and wear off
- DIY – apply lanotec or other product as required

Electronic and chemical rust protection seem to broadly be the same price. I also note with all these options nothing beats a good wash and clean after beachwork.

What are people currently doing with their vehicles? Not wanting to create any arguments, just looking to understand what approach other people have taken and whether they are happy with it.
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Reply By: RMD - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 17:06

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 17:06
In hidden vital areas, if electronic systems don't work then it is too late when you notice anyway. That is one reason why I don't trust it.

Application type coatings do get blasted off as you mention, but those areas are usually fairly easily treated with a spray recoat. These types often crack and allow moisture, salt water, to enter but is unseen and so the tin worm eats but isn't always seen. Some areas do benefit from a deadening protective coating.

I prefer Lanolin because when sprayed under a vehicle at all lap and spot welded areas, the Lanolin soaks into and wicks along where other sprays don't protect. Once in there it stops water entering which is a good idea. The Lanolin stays there. It is easly sprayed into chassis rails, essential to do that, if seriously interested in trying to prevent rust. With a cross drilled nozzle the chassis can be treated from end to end. Then it won't rust out from the inside like some Navaras have.

Unlike older vehicles of past eras, the modern ones don't seem to rust out and so unless the body panels are to be underwater the insides of bodywork should be ok.

I had a HJ61 LC for 25 years and Lanolin seemed ok and I couldn't find rust in it apart from some spots on the roof where paint was thin.
AnswerID: 621856

Reply By: Hoyks - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 18:45

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 18:45
Electronic rust protection? Its your money, but WA gov have declared then to be a rip off. Takes a bit of evidence, or lack there of for a department to go that far. https://www.mynrma.com.au/cars-and-driving/buying-a-car/features/shonky-rust-reduction-devices-debunked

Most move their vehicle on before the tin worm rears its head, so can't really comment on if they work or not. I had a 1980 Sigma that had no visiable rust at the 10 year mark. Wish I could say the same at 12 years.

I went chemical, can't beat grease. Rust forms where there are moisture traps. Modern vehicle design and coatings have eliminated most of them, but someone with greasy/waxy concoction and a gun to spray it into the nooks and crannies is the way to go.

I did mine myself as I couldn't find a professional that was still applying the proper gear as those selling the box with a flashing LED had put them out of business. I had access to a supply of corrosion preventative and a degreaser gun to fog it through the cavities.

I treated a Sierra I bought new in 95. Got Facebook stalked by the woman that has it now. No rust, so Tectyl must work.

I also work on aircraft. On a $50mil aircraft the corrosion protection is tectyl, wax spray, wd40, grease, keeping the paint in good condition and washing it regularly. No electronic Hocus Pocus, just protecting the metal from moisture and electrolytes.
AnswerID: 621860

Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 19:50

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 19:50
Hoyas
Well states inflo. I believe the same. Never had a problem with rust.
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Follow Up By: arod - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 23:58

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 23:58
Which chemical treatment are you using?
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Follow Up By: Hoyks - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 06:05

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 06:05
Tectyl. Thin it out a bit with a suitable solvent and spray away.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 07:20

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 07:20
We used Tectyl years ago in the panel trade, can’t remember the number might have been 605 ?
We’d thin it 50/50 with fish oil and use a proper rust proofing gun l, could of metre hose with end that had multiple direction holes to spray out all over in sills, bottom of guards and quarters, doors.

Me, I’ve done nothing to the Ranger (now 7 years) and no sign of rust.
Most vehicles are hit dip coated now, galv, and are very well protected.
Only nuts and bolts underneath show signs of surface rust, not an issue.

I’ve done loads of beach drives in SA, Qld, ALWAYS flush chassis until clear water, hose underneath esp books and crannies under guards.
Mudflap attachment / voids behind can be a collection point for sand and other such.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 10:10

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 10:10
Sorry Hoyks
My reply should have read "hoyks not hoyas", my friends Ipad does it to me, no proof reading I suppose.
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Follow Up By: Hoyks - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 14:28

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 14:28
No worries RMD, I often get autocorrected.
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Follow Up By: Genny - Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 13:44

Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 13:44
I hear the bloke who invented auto-correct died recently, I hear.

May he roast in piss.
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Reply By: Batt's - Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 23:59

Tuesday, Oct 30, 2018 at 23:59
arod how long will you be roughly keeping the new vehicle would determine on what you may want to do. If you trade them in every few yrs don't waste money on rustproofing even if you keep it for 10yrs you still shouldn't see any signs of rust. My old GQ was 20yrs old before if started to get some spots of rust so a new vehicle with todays tech shouldn't really need any thing but definitely don't spend money on electronic ones because they don't work on cars and have been in trouble since the mid 90's in America for false claims. As mentioned if you need something stick with the old gear that has been proven over time to help like lanolin, fish oil tectyl etc something that creates a visible barrier not an imaginary electronic one. Still can't believe their allowed to sell them a work mate was unfortunately conned into getting one fitted to a new vehicle this yr such a waste of money.
AnswerID: 621867

Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 00:33

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 00:33
The electronic rust protection systems work best if teamed with a couple of hiclones....
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 17:18

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 17:18
No wouldn't agree with that have you tried a hiclone I have and it did actually make a difference.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 22:59

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 22:59
.
I'm sure it did "make a difference" Batt's....... to the Hiclone owner's bank balance. lol
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Batt's - Thursday, Nov 08, 2018 at 05:13

Thursday, Nov 08, 2018 at 05:13
Just out of curiosity have you ever tried one or are you one of those people who just bag it but won't try it.
I've tried them in 2 different vehicles with different results and I kept accurate fuel records to compare at the time.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Nov 08, 2018 at 14:40

Thursday, Nov 08, 2018 at 14:40
.
No Batt's, I have not fitted a Hiclone to my vehicles. I just "bag them out" without any real practical assessment. My scientific training and experience in fluid flow tells me that any affect they would produce on the behaviour of air flow in motor vehicle engines would not benefit engine performance but is likely to contribute to a limitation in air flow.

So I am unlikely to invest some $175 for a Hiclone simply to demonstrate its futility.
It is somewhat like flushing a handful of money down the toilet.... I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty certain of the outcome.

But I have no intention to disparage your observations of vehicle performance after fitting a Hiclone.
I would suggest however that fitting any such device suggests a desire for better fuel economy and it is possible that awareness may lead to improved driving technique and recording.
A credible assessment would be no less than with a dynamometer and this has been critically performed on Hiclones with findings of nil improvement in fuel economy or gain in performance. It is perhaps significant that the Hiclone advertising presents pseudo-scientific expressions and non-validated testimonials, but no professional appraisals or dynamometer tests by a recognised laboratory.

I will say this.... I believe that the purveyors of Hiclone understand a lot more about human nature and marketing than they do about fluid dynamics.

Incidentally.... much the same can be said for "cathodic protection" devices promoted for vehicle anti-rust application.



Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Gbc.. - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 04:42

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 04:42
We use tectyl thinned with kero through a low pressure gun for chassis, under body (don’t get it on the exhaust) and trailers. On the outside the towbars, bullbars and bright work gets a spray of penetrol to keep it shiny and rust free. We spray lanolin on the suspension and all rubber bushes to keep the old salt water rubber squeaks at bay. I also concur that electronic pseudo cathodic protection cannot work unless you keep you car in a bucket of water.
AnswerID: 621868

Reply By: Malcom M - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 06:38

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 06:38
Try and find an electronic system backed up with actual scientific testing.
AnswerID: 621870

Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:50

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:50
Modern vehicle don't corrode anything like the vehicles of 30 years ago.

Vastly improved panel treatment, enlarged drain holes and the removal of blind hole "traps" in the build, have ensured corrosion problems are minimal today.

The greatest source of corrosion potential today is surface corrosion in thin paints, and water-based paints.
The water-based paints are crap, they turn to chalk with age.

What governs a vehicles life today is electrics, wiring and electronics - and cooling system corrosion.

Vehicles of today die an electronic death around 20-25 years on average, as once your vehicle develops a major electronic fault at 20 years of age, it's off to the scrapper.

What amazes me also is the number of people who worry about body and panel corrosion - yet who let their cooling system deteriorate to the point, where they end up with a major cooling system fault, through metal corrosion.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 621881

Reply By: greybeard - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 14:13

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 14:13
Sell it and buy a new one or ignore it till it's falling apart and then get another one.
It's a 4wd not a fashion statement.
AnswerID: 621882

Reply By: CSeaJay - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 15:36

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 15:36
Hi
Another option is "do nothing" in terms of application; But just be sure to high pressure wash after beach driving.

It is a serious option; electric proofing may or may not be effective, and applications may even trap sand in nooks and crannies.

I believe to keep the underside free of any application, and then simply wash thoroughly. As said before, modern cars will die due to other reasons well before rust will become a factor.

I have done this with all my cars with several beach and salt environment holidays (Qld coast, Fraser Isle, northern West Coast), and kept them between 10 and 14 years, and rust did not show on any of them.
AnswerID: 621885

Reply By: swampy - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 18:24

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 18:24
HI
Experience with Tectyl
First spoke to importers and there are far far better products produced by Tectyl but are not imported to OZZY .
Tectyl is a soft setting light duty coating more suited to tool packaging . There are more durable wax type coatings on the market . Tectyl comes of with wax and grease remover easily and is 100% gone once a pressure washer is used . The wax imported cars used to come in to OZZY was tough requiring a number of wax remover coatings followed by pressure cleaner.

Many rust preventer products also only come in 200lts

Fuchs oils do a big range although never tried .
AnswerID: 621889

Reply By: Member - johnat - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 19:19

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 19:19
An alternative "treatment" not mentioned by others is to move away from the coast. In a drier climate, there'd be 30+ years protection in the original coating used by manufacturers, so no treatment needed.
Also, continued polishing of the duco removes some of the protective coating, exposing the undercoats to the elements, washing and polishing is a highly over-rated pastime by people without enough to do (putting on foil hat and hiding!)
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 21:12

Wednesday, Oct 31, 2018 at 21:12
I leave a protective coating of dirt on my car for that very reason. My wife doesn't believe me....
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 13:16

Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 13:16
A fellow I worked with in the 90's had an early Brock commodore and he reckons it said in the manual to only wash the vehicle with warm water, not to use soap apparently it may encourage rust.

I think in 33yrs of owning car I have only ever polished one vehicle once that was a while after it was resprayed. After that one time experienced I decided it was a waste of time and effort..
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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 13:32

Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 13:32
Hi Batts

Not sure that that is still relevant with modern paint but when I was a young fella the white paints were the worst for rust.
Supposedly the whites never had enough pigment in them and were a little permeable to water. Soap supposedly made this effect worse.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 18:17

Thursday, Nov 01, 2018 at 18:17
.
Hi Malcom,

I would think it more the case that white paint (or any light colour) would likely show rust stain more than darker colours.

The resistance to permeability in paint is a function of the base resins, not the pigments. However the colour of the paint finish may change due to fading of the pigment. Red is particularly prone to this.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Friday, Nov 02, 2018 at 06:19

Friday, Nov 02, 2018 at 06:19
Hi Allan

No it was the porosity of the paint and mostly affected the whites.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Friday, Nov 02, 2018 at 16:23

Friday, Nov 02, 2018 at 16:23
Could have been with the old acrylic lacquer paints.
Dulon E type was the best you could use back then (but maybe the Euit makers were already using 2 pack).
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Friday, Nov 02, 2018 at 10:21

Friday, Nov 02, 2018 at 10:21
My old FJ40 I had in the 80s was a rust bucket. Every 4X4 I have had since then has not shown any signs of rust. The manufacturing methods have improved and modern 4X4s are rust resistant. In other words I wouldn't bother with rust proofing unless you drive your 4X4 into the sea. Even then if you immediately give it a good wash underneath you should be okay.
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Reply By: Member Kerry W (WA) - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2018 at 13:18

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2018 at 13:18
From my personal experience...
For underbody treatment a good quality body deadener thinned down with either thinners, ensis fluid or WD lube (I havn't used fish oil with this as yet) and sprayed on thin to penetrate the fine spaces. Then a second thick coat on top will last a considerable time. It will wear off in some exposed places but most areas will be fine.
For long term protection - if the vehicle is a keeper... my answer ONLY really applies if you are restoring and keeping one of the classic bullet proof (ie non throwaway) 4X4s.For inside body panels. Use an air splatter gun using Tectyl thinned down with Ensis fluid (penetrating fluid - was a Shell product) this was an original formula once used by many Qld rustproofers. It takes a lot of dedication to get into all the cavities but there are plenty of access points in most vehicles.

Doing the inside/underbody panels properly is a big messy job to do yourself. You will need personal protective gear. Preferably a respirator (rather than just a dust mask), eye protection and overalls.
There is really no easy way to do it properly.
I realised I would be keeping my GQ Patrol for many years (due to its field servicability and mechanical specifics which appealed to me) I rustproofed this vehicle thoroughly back in 2001. It has been a Qld vehicle most of its life - so lots of rain/humidity and has seen a lot of beach and deep river crossing work over the years. After 27 years (Yes! the GQs are now that old) bottom of doors and lower panels are fine, only has minor spot rust on stone chips and recently removed some rust from roof gutter and around rear door window seals and found areas where the rust was - had been missed in my original application due to lack of access up that high in the rear doors. The other hard to get to area is the inside roof perimeter behind the roof liner - condensation accumulates on roof and drains down to the edges. The easiest solution is a series of tiny holes in the roof liner and a thin nozzle to insert - dare I say it fish oil - the smell does go after a few days but the protection will last quite a while. Periodic use of fish oil inside wheel arches/flairs will help keep them in good condition.
Not necessary for everyone but these methods actually work.
Kerry W (WA)
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Follow Up By: ian.g - Thursday, Nov 08, 2018 at 12:16

Thursday, Nov 08, 2018 at 12:16
Not wanting to be picky Kerry, but if you purchased and rust proofed this vehicle in 2001 then it is 17 years old not 27.
Cheers Ian
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Follow Up By: Member Kerry W (WA) - Friday, Nov 09, 2018 at 16:28

Friday, Nov 09, 2018 at 16:28
Ummm....Ian G, not sure if you mean the vehicle or the rustproofing job? Either way its a 27 year old GQ with minimal rust - never mentioned when I bought it but if its only 17 years old - its the newest GQ on the planet. Thanks for the reply though, at least it shows somebody read my story...:-)
Kerry W (WA)
Security is mostly a superstition. It doesnt exist in nature. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.
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Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Nov 14, 2018 at 11:46

Wednesday, Nov 14, 2018 at 11:46
One product I've had good rust protection success with (and the principle behind it is proven), is Exit-Rust.

The principle behind Exit-Rust is the chemical reaction between Iron Tannate and Magnetite, whereby these chemical compounds are involved in chelation (pronounced "kel-lation") of the rust.

Chelation is a process involving organic chemistry whereby a chemical compound reacts with iron compounds, to bond with the iron compounds and convert them into a stable compound that forms a barrier to corrosion. The organic chemicals involved are called Ligands.

You can see this reaction occurring naturally from sap from trees that contain a high level of tannins.
Poplar trees are noted for their high tannin content, and their tannins leaching into water bodies such as lakes and ponds, produce naturally-occurring, rust-reducing bodies of water.

You might have seen the totally-submerged WW2 Russian tank dragged from a poplar-lined pond in Eastern Europe, around the early 2000's.
It was amazingly corrosion-free, despite being sunk in the pond since 1945, and the tannins from the poplar trees were the reason for that.



Exit-Rust can be brushed on or sprayed on, or you can dip your item in it.
It forms the classic blue-black iron tannate coating that acts to prevent corrosion.

I've done the inside of the chassis box-section on a Series 3 Landrover wagon in 1995, and the chassis is still rust-free today.
As most of you would probably know, corrosion inside the box-section chassis of Landrovers is a major problem in the old Landies.

Cheers, Ron.
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