All Terrain Tyres

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 27, 2019 at 19:30
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A tyre question. I am looking at buying new tyres for my Rok and I am considering Pirelli Scorpion A/T plus or Michelin LTX Force. Have any of you had any experience with either of those tyres.
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Reply By: Guy G - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 13:52

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 13:52
Personally I would use Bridgestone D697 with a LT load rating. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to run them at higher pressures but you can when fully loaded on good surfaces. I've done the GRR twice, Bungle Bungles & Mitchell Falls as well as heaps off road work in the Kimberley on the same set without a puncture and after 60000K's they still have easily 10000K's left. Wear has been even with no chipping. I'm always guided by what Station & Community vehicles use as well as what is readily available should you happen to stake one in a remote location.
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 14:30

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 14:30
I've used Pirelli Scorpions and found them to be on the soft side for Australian conditions, as per most European products.
The expected lifespan of the Scorpions was not reached, and they only did a little over 40,000kms - whereas I was getting 60,000kms out of Bridgestones.

Michelin are the original radial tyre, we used them on our 2WD vehicles such as FB to HK Holden utes in the 1960's - when everyone else reckoned crossply tyres were more durable.

The Michelins gave superb service in that era, as long as you kept the inflation pressures up, because those old Michelin X's bulged excessively in the sidewall and they were susceptible to staking if recommended pressures were used.

Now we've moved on to 2019 and the tyre technology has progressed in leaps and bounds over the intervening 50+ years - and most manufacturers have tyre technology equal to Michelin.

Michelin still try to stay ahead of the pack - but they are expensive, and I don't see them as being economic any more, as the old Michelin X were.

I have little doubt the Michelins are just as durable as they ever were - but I have not bought Michelins for about 20 years. The last Michelins I bought were X's.
I might add, those Michelins I bought in the late 1990's, are still going well.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Guy G - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 15:28

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 15:28
I remember those old skinny Michelin X's. You almost couldn't wear them out. The tread rubber looked like it was vulcanised on. Taxi's used them almost exclusively in WA due to their longevity. They looked too skinny to give good road holding but in reality they stuck like the proverbial to a blanket. If you remember them you probably also remember Goodyear 3T Custom Hi Milers & Dunlop Roadtrack Majors back in the days before we all had to have wide base low profile radial tubeless tyres & air conditioning. At least you could patch them & the tubes on the side of the road & reinflate them with a spark plug pump.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 16:56

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 16:56
I have Michelin on my vehicle at the moment but they do not make an AT in 255/60R18, Pirelli do. I can however fit a 265/60R18 and the Michelin LTX Force is available in that size.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:02

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:02
Yokohama Geolander A/T-S come in a good range of sizes and can take it in the rough stuff.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:33

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:33
Michael. They did not score well in Tyre Review and Product Review. I want a good all round tyre not just in the rough stuff. What do you think of them on bitumen, gravel and wear, etc.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 20:29

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 20:29
Hi Kunmunara

If you are after those requirement, do not overlook the new Toyo A/T 2/ Open County LT

Far better than Bridgestone 697’s ( I have owned 3 sets, yes they are a great tyre but not the best wearing ), vey quiet and great ride on the bitumen, fantastic in the wet, very reliable in the sand and stoney Outback roads.

With my tyres, I would never let them go down past 50% tread wear, only for the fact that I wanted a 100% reliable tyre when in the Outback. With that in mind, I was only getting about 25k before my Bridgestone were at or near the 50% wear and I would then get a new set of 4.

Before others jump in, I rotate my tyres every 5k and my wheel alignment is spot on. Now with my trial set of Toyo’s, they have travelled over 35k and still have well over 50% of tread left. So with this along, I will be replacing them at the 50% mark at around 50k.....that is double the life of my previous 697’s.

Have they been driven off road?

2 trips on the Birdsville Track

Strezelecki Track

2 Oodnadatta Tracks trips

Cape York

Tanami Track

Duncan Road

Gibb River Road

Flinders Ranges true 4X4 tracks

Central Arnhem Highway out to Nhulunbuy and back...........

You get the drift that they are not just used on bitumen and from my personal use, spend more than 80% on their life on dirt.

Other benefits of the Toyo over Bridgestone are

Made in Japan

Higher load rating

Required less wheel weights to balance the tyres which showed they very better balanced from the factory.

Just my thoughts and a very satisfied Toyo Open Country owner.


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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 13:28

Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 13:28
Kumanara - I think you're getting your tyre parameters mixed up. You talk about looking to fit a set of A/T tyres.
The Michelin LTX Force in 265/60R18 is not an A/T tyre. Michelin state this tyre is designed for, "your city commute and light off-road journeys".

The problem is simply, a 60 series is a low profile tyre and this profile is normally built specifically for highway conditions.

You will rarely any tyre manufacturer producing a low profile tyre (in 60 series profile) and labelling it "A/T".

The lowest profile tyre you will generally find with an A/T rating is 70 series. Michelin produce an LTX A/T 2 tyre - but the only size available in 18 inch is 265/70R18.

If you wish to stick with a 60 series profile, you will generally have to cope with a poorer off-road/dirt road performance.

However, if you wish to acquire a tyre with improved off-road performance, you will usually have to go to a 70 series - and put up with a less satisfactory highway performance from that tyre.

However - having said all that - Pirelli claim their Scorpion, in 265/60R18 size, is an A/T tyre.

My opinion is that Pirelli are pushing the boundaries of tyre design, and the only way they can compromise the tyre design to get satisfactory performance in both highway and off-road conditions, with a 60 series tyre design, is to use a softer rubber compound.

My experience with Scorpions is that the shorter life I got from the Scorpions is indicative of a softer rubber compound than other tyre manufacturers.

Michelin AT tyres

Pirelli Scorpion 265/60R18 ATR

Re Stephens recommendation, I note that the Toyo AT2 open country also comes in 265/60R18 - and the reviews from users indicate a high level of satisfaction.
I have not used this particular size Toyo, but I have regularly used Toyos, and currently have Toyos fitted as steer tyres on my Isuzu truck. The Toyos have always produced a very good performance.

The only other advice I can offer, is to check the rolling loaded radius of any replacement tyre that is larger than that fitted originally, to ensure that there is minimal disruption to overall gearing and speedo readings.
Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 16:59

Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 16:59
Ron, thank tou for your reply. The LTX range consist of three all terrain tyre products AT2, AT & Force. The Force is an all terrain tyre but built for mostly highway use. I had already researched this before posting. The Scorpion ATR is obsolute and has been replaced with the AT Plus which is supposed to be a big improvement. The ATR were supposedly not very good in hot conditions and therefore unsuitable as I live in the Top End. I was hoping to get some feedback from someone who had used one of these tyres.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 20:55

Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 20:55
Kumanara, the Australian Tyre Review website below, offers 15 user reviews on the Scorpion AT Plus.
Even allowing for the "rent-a-crowd" reviewers, the majority of the user reviews are generally favourable towards the AT Plus.

Interestingly, the one review by a 'Rok owner (who, curiously, is using 255/55R19 Scorpions on his 'Rok) appears to be one of the users who is less than inspired by them.
No reason given, and no opinion offered, he just offers a "maybe" to the sites question, "would you buy again?".

Perhaps the 55 series he chose (or was fitted to what he bought), was too harsh in ride qualities.
We have one vehicle fitted with 55 series tyres and they are "a very firm ride", to say the least.
As far as highway handling goes though, the 55 series handles like the car is on rails.

The Scorpion AT Plus appears to be primarily manufactured for the European and American market, with a distinct target market of snow use, with a "3 star snowflake" symbol representing good performance in snow.
I'm personally inclined towards the view, that tyres built for snow use, provide less-than-satisfactory performance, in high temperature conditions.

Tyre Review - Scorpion AT Plus

Product Review shows 91 reviews on the Scorpion ATR and only 1 for the Scorpion AT Plus.

Product Review - Pirelli 4WD tyres

Eliminating 90% of the Product Review glowing 5 star reviews - which are often suspect reviews - still leaves the general impression that amongst the Product Review owners/users, the Scorpion tyres give less than expected life, and provide an overall performance that could be better.

There's one review from a Darwin owner of a 'Rok, who is not all that happy with his ATR's.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 21:21

Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 21:21
Thanks Ron. You have obviously gone to a lot of trouble to do this research. Thank you.
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Follow Up By: nickb - Thursday, Jan 31, 2019 at 00:22

Thursday, Jan 31, 2019 at 00:22
My mate has recently put AT plus (not LT) on his Colorado - 245/70/16. He reckons they are quiet and drive well on the road, yet to take them off-road.

Not much of a review hahaha!!! But they are reasonably new to the market.
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Reply By: rocco2010 - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 15:24

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 15:24
There were brand new Pirelli Scorpions on a second hand Prado I purchased in September 2016.
43,000 km later they are just about done and will be replaced before winter.
There have been no issues on trips where they have been exposed to the rocky tracks in WAs Pilbara and Goldfields.
I have had a good run in the past with Bridgestones both in terms of punctures (none) and longevity (60k plus including the Kimberley, Pilbara, goldfields, Gascoyne and gunbarrel etc) and I will be going back to them.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
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Reply By: Sam39 - Thursday, Feb 14, 2019 at 10:15

Thursday, Feb 14, 2019 at 10:15
Bit late to see this but I have had the Pirelli Scorpion A/T LTs on a Ranger since late 2014. They have pretty much been everywhere except the Cape (this year). Have done just under 60,000 and they may have another 10k in them. Two punctures, one in the Kimberleys side wall (replace tyre, likely my fault, speed + lower pressure as we had come from Kulumburu, should have put more air in as the roads got better), the other a nail.

I like their tyres, they are great on road and I think really good off road. Not been bogged yet which is my test of success and been around lots of others that have. We don't tow anything, not sure how much difference this makes to tyre wear.
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