... and another battery thread

Submitted: Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 13:35
ThreadID: 137729 Views:5455 Replies:9 FollowUps:9
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Time for renewal again. Presently have the usual N70zz showing signs of age and I am after some up to date advice on latest offerings. Tempted by Yuasa Overlander, which has some recycle ability (but I wouldn’t want to compromise it’s main purpose) but also, a couple of hybrids; Century Dual Force multi-purpose and Super Charge Allrounder. My main interest in the last two “all purpose“ agm/starter ones is that they are ok for under the bonnet and I won’t be too far off renewing my current Delco 90 ah agm, which isn’t all that wonderful anyway, and I am led to believe that 2x the same under the bonnet is ideal. Most of the batts I’ve looked at are minimum 720 cca with some over 800cca. Then again, the supercharge n70zz looks good for cca at over 800 and reasonably priced, but just a straightforward cranker. What would be a good combination or should I just concentrate on the cranker for now?
Car is a Prado d4d model.
Sorry if a bit convoluted.
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 14:46

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 14:46
When I had a D4D Prado (120 Series) I had excellent results with 2 x Supercharge Allrounders, one as a cranker, the other as aux. Paralleled them up for winching, no problems with them at all. I got about 4 years out of them before I sold the vehicle, they were still good. Good value for money, IMO.


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Follow Up By:- Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 15:03

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 15:03
Hi Frank,

Don’t do winching these days but anyway, I have a redarc isolator which will keep the cranker ok. I was thinking of maybe these 2x together as I’d read previously that 2x the same worked better. Don’t understand why but just want a good setup.
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Reply By: Batt's - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 16:59

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 16:59
I've been using 105ah Allrounders for starter batteries for over 10yrs which are good for running accessories when camping etc as well. I was running an Evakool RF47 off it on trips for yrs up to 2 days without starting car no problems. That fridge now runs off aux batteries an I have a Waeco CDF11 console fridge which runs off it now I have a 110 fixed solar panel wired up to it permanently. I was not aware they were a calcium battery until someone on a site told me. Since fitting the solar panel it now shows more volts on the in cab meter I had fitted usually any where from 12.8v - 13v at rest.

I was talking to the dealer some yrs ago and he recommended that to get the best out an Allrounder you should use it as a deep cycle a reasonable amount of time that's what it's designed for. If you purely just want a starter battery then just get a starter battery.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 18:06

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 18:06
Batts, don't get too carried away about "calcium batteries".
They are still lead-acid batteries.

For many years, battery plate grids were compounded from lead with a little antimony. Then the pundits added a wee drop of silver in some. And sometimes a manufacturer would claim a pinch of herbs too. lol

More recent technology is to use an alloy of lead-silver-calcium which provides better corrosion resistance, reduced self-discharge, more robust, and a longer life.
However "Calcium" became the magic word for advertising writers who created the illusion that these were a new class of battery, which they are not. They are still lead-acid and need to be treated as such.

To obtain the benefits of the technology they do however need to be charged to a level of 14.4 to 14.8 volts. Regularly less than that and you may not realise their extended life qualities.

Lead-silver-calcium is now the virtual universal automotive battery construction. It's just that some advertisers beat a 'calcium drum' to attract your attention.

(Oh how I love battery threads. lol)


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Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 22:41

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 22:41
Maybe the calcium mixed in, gives a more porous structure and allows better contact of liquid and lead. Electron movement.

Bones are calcium and the battery man stating untruths about cca, it might just be a Fibula.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 15:39

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 15:39
I was not aware they were a calcium battery until someone on a site told me. I was onto my 3rd one before I found out. Since fitting the solar panel it now shows more volts on the in cab meter I had fitted usually any where from 12.8v - 13v at rest which is better than a standard starter battery so I'm not sure where or when I was getting carried away.

I'm not that concerned about the make up of the batt just the fact it shows a higher voltage and I get more time running the fridge when parked up out of the sun which is a bonus.
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Reply By: RMD - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 17:32

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 17:32
A high cca battery isn’t usually a high amp hr capacity battery. When you mention recycle, is is deep cycle which was intended? Your vehicle has a geared starter and so doesn’t require high cca battery, storage of a suitable level is probably better. Must have both of sufficient ability for cranking though. The starting load is usually replaced very quickly because it is not a large loss of ah out of the battery. If relying on sustained cranking ability then the vehicle would have a problem. The aux can be a deep cycle and is only charged when the VSR cuts in to join them together. The aux can then be put to use for fridges etc where sustained drain is required.

I ran a Yuasa main and a deep cycle, Deep River, joined after start load replenished. This setup saw the Deep River last past 7 years.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 18:56

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 18:56
That would be "Fullriver", I reckon??
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 20:10

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 20:10
Can’t get fuller than deep.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:06

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:06
My experience with cranking the Perkins....
I started with a BIG calcium/calcium. It lasted 2 years.
I then tried a heavy duty "marine/4WD" battery. It lasted 3 years.
I suspect both fell apart internally because of the corrugations?
Then I took a punt and installed a 120Ah Fullriver HGL AGM (designed as a standby battery). That was January 2010. Note it is external from the engine compartment.

That battery is still there and still doing its job. It has always been a bit marginal for cranking at zeroC, but considering that it is not a crank battery I reckon it is pretty good.

I also have 400Ah of DC Fullriver AGMs for the house (they are also 9 years old). They are linked to the crank via a 200A two way RedArc VSR. I can easily crank directly from them if required and did so for 2 months after the calcium/calcium failed on a long trip away.

The plates of AGMs a held in a glass matrix. I reckon this is responsible for much greater physical ability to withstand vibrations from bad roads.

OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Stevemac - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:38

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:38
Thank you Peter but back to the thread...

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Reply By: mountainman - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:26

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:26
If your chasing a good cranking battery
Look at the CAT range of batteries
175 - 4390 ( product number )
Got a 1000cca rating
Brilliant warranty
Up to 4 years ( pro rata )

And the price is awesome
But depending on the CAT dealer
You could be paying a couple extra bucks.
AnswerID: 623493

Reply By: Member - Rob S (NSW) - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:59

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 19:59
I have only used Century N7OZZ 4wd batterys for a starting battery for my petrol 80 series over the years, usually get 2/3 years out them.
Currently using a Supercharge all rounder for the last 2 years and can see it lasting longer, cheaper to buy and 2 years warranty?
using an all rounder the same as the starting battery for my auxiliary as well now.

Don't no how true it is, but the CCA can be overated on most battery brands,
well that's the speil from the Battery world guy.???

Cheers Rob
I only ever made one mistake
and that's when I thought I was wrong!

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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:03

Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:03
I used to retail batteries at my tyre business.
Century always tested higher cca than their rating. Some brand only around the rating.
Biggest tip from me is the freshest batteries are the best. Batteries on the shelf for a length of time , especially if not charged at all can drop below 12.4 volts (is the level I worked on , maybe not everyone’s ideal) my century and Bosch suppliers used to check and rotate out , so they were fresh.
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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 23:50

Monday, Jan 28, 2019 at 23:50
I've used many Supercharge Gold starter batteries and got a very good run out of them.
I always work on a battery is only as good as the warranty the manufacturer is prepared to put up.

1 yr warranty gets you the cheap and nasty batteries, 2 yrs is the average warranty, 3 yrs is the warranty provided on the better batteries - and the Supercharge Gold has a 4 yr warranty, which gets me in.

I've only had one Supercharge Gold fail within the warranty period - it failed at 3 yrs and 9mths.
Supercharge cheerfully replaced it with a new one - but the warranty is Pro Rata - so I only got 3 mths warranty on the new one.
That battery was still in the car, and still performing well, when I sold it, 4 yrs later.

I've used Exide Extreme (4 yr warranty at the time - now reduced to 2 yrs). Both the Exide Extremes just made a whisker over 4 yrs. I don't think they're as good as Supercharge Gold Batteries.

I've only ever owned 2 Yuasa batteries. Both were genuine Japan-built Yuasa's. One went for 10 yrs and 4 mths! I was staggered, it just wouldn't give up!

The second Yuasa went for 8 yrs. I find that trying to source Yuasa batteries is a real hassle. No-one wants to stock them.

I also suspect that the Yuasa batteries you get today are no longer made in Japan. If I could buy another Japanese-built Yuasa, I'd be onto it, in a flash.

Re the Cat batteries. As a buyer and user of many Cat batteries over more than 4 decades, you will find that Cat batteries are built to withstand heavy vibration.

The "run-of-the-mill" batteries have little by way of support for the bottom of the plates.
Cat batteries have every plate heavily bonded to the bottom of the cell.

Cat found that heavy vibration cracked the plates in "run-of-the-mill" batteries, because they were unsupported at the bottom, and this allowed the plates to constantly flex back and forth, eventually causing them to crack.

Cat batteries also have more clearance between the bottom of the cells and the bottom of the plates. This allows for more lead sulphate debris (from decomposition of the plates) to build up.

The build of lead sulphate debris in the bottom of the cells eventually reaches the bottom of the plates and causes a shorted cell. A cell with more clearance between the bottom of the plates and the bottom of the cell has a lower chance of developing a shorted cell.

Finally, I believe the answer to extended lead-acid battery life is using an electronic battery desulfator, that breaks up the lead sulphate crystals that shorten battery life.

I use an Infinitum desulfator, I've had it for about 8 or 9 yrs and I've saved many batteries from going to scrap, and extended the life of many others.

My favourite trick for cheap batteries, when I need a cheap one for something, is going down to "Bombs Away" car scrappers, and digging out a reasonable-looking battery from a scrapped car, that is still holding over about 12.4V (I take my multimeter and just simply test the voltage, as it sits on the rack).

I select one showing more than 12.4V, and take it back to the workshop and slow trickle charge it over a couple of days with the desulfator attached - and 9 times out of 10, I end with a battery that returns at least 2 more years of satisfactory life - usually for around $35.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 623499

Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 15:49

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 15:49
I was told by a local in Mackay there use to be a fellow yrs ago that made his own batteries in town and they lasted a very long time which put the big brands to shame. Something the industry doesn't like the little guy eating into their profit margins.
FollowupID: 896723

Reply By: HKB Electronics - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 09:33

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2019 at 09:33
Caterpillar batteries get a good rap if you can fit one, I found unfortunately that they won't fit into a Piranha N70 tray. It would fit the Prado if you don't have an after market tray fitted but I would be concerned about the weight if fitting straight onto the standard guard position.

The Century Dual force I haven't seen before when I have visited their website so I assume it is a new release, I have been looking around for one to try but have only found one selling them.

I use an Optima for the cranker in mine, problem with them is you have to get a good one, I had two duds before the current one which is going well, they have limited capacity compared to other similar size batteries.

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Reply By: Phil G - Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 09:23

Wednesday, Jan 30, 2019 at 09:23
For cranking, the Century batteries are Australian made and have been good for me over many years. I turn them over about every 3-4 years because I don't want any battery probs out in the desert. Used to always use the Overlander but last year the battery guy suggested the Ultra High Performance (810 cca). Get mine at a great price from www.batterydiscounters.com.au who ae a small autoelectric shop in Adelaide.

For aux battery I've been using the SSB Dryfit AGM (one of the original dual purpose AGMs) They are rated for underbonnet use and come with a 3 year replacement warranty - the one in my tvan is now about 8 years old, and I have them in my caravan and 200series.
AnswerID: 623517

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