Tow vehicles

I'D rather be travelling long distances in a Ram than a Oka, just my opinion. They look to be a pretty fair vehicle to me, the Ram that is.

Funny you say that Peter n Margaret, because some folks might say that an Oka motorhome is a “huge monstrosity”

The OKA (and other 4WDs no doubt) will go places a Dodge Ram will never go on its own (at least for very long), let alone when towing 3.5T, or more, and when the Ram is towing that weight, the OKA will look tiny by comparison. :)

We owned a mid 80s F350 4WD motorhome for 12 years. After the chassis cracked for the 5th time we looked at buying a new F250 4wd. Nice vehicle, but it took about 15 minutes to decide that it was not a vehicle for serious 4WD country. That was 2001. I doubt the Ram is any better now than the F250 was then if you want to go bush.

If you want to tow 3.5T or more, go for the Ram, but you won't see us except if we are on the way there or on the way back to where we were going. :)
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Hi Peter n Margaret
I should have been more specific with my post. When I said tow vehicle I was thinking towing on mainly bitumen roads, I certainly wasn’t suggesting that it would compete as an off road vehicle.
I feel that the Ram is a step up from the current crop of dual cab utes and Landcruisers when it comes to towing because of its comfort, spaciousness, and power.

No problem with that at all cruiser, just as I initially said - "the fewer we will see where we go. :)"
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

.
Pete,

You had an F350 that cracked its chassis 5 times and you looked to replace it with an F250?
That really is brand loyalty. lol

I did like the 7.3 diesel and after 12 years using a 351 Cleveland, I thought I needed the power, but that was a false need.

Ford were actually developing a new 6L V8 diesel at that time which looked even better that the 7.3 on paper and they actually produced off tool preproduction units, but it failed and they abandoned it. There was also a V6 4.5L version using the same architecture that also looked pretty good too.

Now with 6T and 110hp I have learned a bit more about what is needed in the bush and HP is a fair way down the list.
I did like that V8 noise though. :)
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

.
Peter, you can still have the "V8 noise"..... for just $68.
I have experienced these gadgets and they really are effective.
I gave a "Supercar V10" model to a friend in Singapore... drove his friends mad!
Go here for details. And be sure to play the video.
I actually considered putting the V10 model in the Troopy with a horn speaker behind the grille. lol

Thanks for enlightening us Ron.
So what would you suggest as an alternative for someone who needs to tow over 3.5 tonne and would like the comfort and spaciousness of the Ram. I can only think of the F trucks or Silverados but they too are American made.

Cruiser, there's not much to choose from, if you want the degree of interior comfort that American-built vehicles offer.

But most people towing vans over 3.5 tonne, do so with a dedicated commercial vehicle, such as a 3 to 5 tonne Japanese truck.
With these style of vehicles, you do have something built with the inherent strength of a truck, not a "pickup", which is not often built with commercial use in mind.

Cheers, Ron.

Hi Ron
Would a Dodge Ram with a 6.7 litre Cummins diesel not be considered as “built with commercial use in mind”
Previously the Rams, F trucks and Silverado were not readily available but the point is now they are becoming available at the local dealer level, which can only be a good thing.
Also with the demise of our own motor industry it’s good to see some of that expertise being put to use with the conversions.

cruiser 3
We never really ever had an Australian motor industry at all. Only foreign based companies claiming Australian made, employing workers and ripping off Australia. What Fraud and Oldhen/GM had as production here, was far outstripped by the profit they sent back to the homeland. The companies just exported Aussie dollars. When they weren't making sufficient profit for shareholders they withdrew. Stupid politicians and unions see the loss as the government not supporting the motoring industry. Not so.

Cruiser, the telling feature of the current Dodge Ram on offer in Australia, is that it only comes in 2 configurations - a crew cab and a dual cab (or quad cab in Dodge-speak).

Now, I was always under the impression that anyone who was offering a "commercial vehicle", provided a single cab "workhorse" version of their product.

But, sadly there is no such offering from Dodge, and no likelihood we will ever see a Dodge Ram on a worksite, a minesite, or hauling builders equipment, tools, and supplies.

I think that speaks volumes for the market that Dodge are catering for, and speaks volumes for the "commercial vehicle" claims of the Dodge Ram.

I note that Dodge brag about "6 foot 4 inches" of bed space (oops, they still can't get their head around metrics, even though the vehicle length is listed as "5817mm") - but I've got a single cab Toyota that has an 8 foot (2.5M) tray - which ute is still capable of hauling over 1000kgs on that tray.

Yet, the "mighty" dual cab Dodge Ram has a vehicle (ute tub) load capacity of only 845kgs?
Seems to me, that's not what I'd call a "commercial vehicle" rating or construction?
More like an SUV rating, which is the market that Dodge are apparently targeting.

Cheers, Ron.

I haven’t looked in a while but if I recall correctly you’ll have to go bigger than a 3-5t jap truck to get better than a 3.5t tow rating.

Gbc - I've got a 30 year old 5 tonne Isuzu truck, and it has a towing capability of 6 tonnes.
Later model Jap trucks have more power and even better towing capabilities, and considerably improved comfort levels.
Not that I'm unhappy with my old Suzy, it goes well, it has an air-suspension seat, good vision, it's fast (over 130kmh), quite comfortable - but it's still not a Dodge Ram. [;-)

It does tow a 4500kg plant trailer (fully loaded) with ease, as well as carrying another 5 tonnes on its back.

Cheers, Ron.

Nice. I think the NPS 4x4 is about the only one they do under 8t these days that allows for more than 3.5t tow. We had some running around a few years back to find something to tow the bobcat and attachments with but it ended up easier keeping the trailer at 3500 and the attachments in the truck in the end.

Spot on Ron, they should be able to bring the Ram here for $60,00 retail in Right Hand Drive. Its probably just more poor quality american crap anyway. Michael

Cruiser 3
Youd have to go with a superior engineering
Modified 79 cruiser with a auto...
And modified rear chassis
They do these before first registration
Tow 4t
Might even be a little more
Everything gets beefed up
New rear diff
Axles
New rhs rear chassis
Id hate to imagine the cost of all the above
Auto conversions alone run in excess of 25k as a mate works at ALL4X4 in kotara and does them almost on a weekly basis.
Cheers

How could you be so cynical "LOL"

Reads like an ad. No glossy photos though?

Bob

But he's a cruiser man, how could he even let the words Dodge Ram pass his lips.

Utter sacrilege. Then again a bit of folding green across the palm could alter anything.

It will be good to hear their opinion after 5 years ownership of the Dodge.

A farmer friend bought a Dodge Ram in 1997, and he was less than impressed with it - although he did end up keeping it for 12 years.

I suspect that was to try and get his moneys worth out of it - because trying to sell a low km used Dodge Ram in the early 2000's meant they were still ridiculously overpriced.

He was less than impressed with a braking system that wasn't up to scratch for the size of the vehicle.
He wasn't impressed with the cost of parts and the long wait for any parts that were needed.
He was less than impressed with the build quality overall, with much rough finish and poor fit.

He wasn't impressed with a front axle panhard rod that broke its mountings on one end.
He said he was under the impression the workmanship in the conversion was sub-standard - and the problem was related to the fact the panhard rod had to swapped around, to enable the steering box to be re-located.

He was impressed with the good old Cummins - but the transmission was less than satisfactory with regular niggling issues, shifting problems, and Dodge mechanics who lacked experience on their problems.

At $80K today, the Dodge Ram is cheaper than it used to be, and perhaps the build quality has improved. Only time will tell.

Cheers, Ron.

Do you hate all of the big 3 american rigs or just the ram Ron N?

Nutta, I don't hate the American rigs, I just happen to think they are over-priced and over-rated as to their construction and reliability.

Many aeons ago, I was young and keen, and I bought a brand new Ford F100 4WD.
It cost me $11,000 in 1977 - and the brother bought a new Statesman for $6500 at about the same time. That was some pretty "big bikkies", back then.

That F100 had a couple of things going for it - it took metre deep holes in its stride, and it had fabulous ground clearance.

But it also had a petrol V8 with a massive thirst - Ford wouldn't even consider diesels back then (in fact, it took about another 20 years, and long after Japanese domination, before Ford would even consider installing diesels).

It had the worst steering of any vehicle I've owned (manual steering - even though F100's in the States came with power steering).
I couldn't keep it in a straight line on the highway, it pulled right and left, and it left you worn out, driving it any considerable distance.

So I had to fit aftermarket power steering at a cost of another $1000 - which did make it a lot more driveable.
But it handled badly when empty, due to the front suspension design, with its long radius rods that ended on brackets on the chassis, at the back of the cab.

It would go sideways in milliseconds on heavily corrugated roads, due to those radius rods acting to push the rear end sideways when the front axle impacted heavy corrugations.
It didn't help that the rear end was about as light as a Hilux, with a flimsy well-body tub that was never designed to see any hard work.

The F100 parts prices would make your eyes water. $600 just for a grille panel - in 1980, thank you very much - when $600 bought a whole lot more than it does today.
The amount of flimsy parts that fell off the F100 would half fill a bucket.
The bonnet hinge system was a real apprentices effort, with the bonnet never closing properly after a couple of years work.

Every second fastener in the F100 was fitted into a hole that was grossly oversize, thanks to high-speed hole punching on Ford production lines.
If the fastener ever came loose, the components were free to wallow around.

This really showed up when the F100 started getting twitchy steering and started duck-diving all over the road. The SIL ended up refusing to drive it.

So I got underneath to try and pin down the source of the problems.
It turned out the fasteners that held the brackets that held those radius rods against the chassis, had come loose - and as a result of the oversize holes in the brackets, and the chassis - the radius rods were moving back and forth on the chassis, to the tune of about 10 to 12mm!

Ford had also installed a fancy double-universal-joint-in-one-casting arrangement in the tailshaft, right behind the gearbox.
This fabulous device was supposed to give substantially more articulation to the tailshaft over rough terrain.

In operation, it just wore out rapidly and caused tailshaft vibration. It was dispensed with, and the tailshaft was rebuilt with new yokes, a longer tube (to accommodate removing the Ford double-uni-arrangement) and a new single uni-joint with a high articulation ability.
Problem solved - but at more cost to me. Once again, deficient Ford engineering.

I even had trouble with the engine stopping one night, due to spark problems.
The engine started running rough, lost power, and ended up not wanting to go over about 30kmh.
It was backfiring occasionally as well, leading me to suspect timing problems.

In the dark, way out in the sticks, and with only minimal light, I eventually figured out that the breaker arm on the points had become dry, and the points were bouncing! - thus leading to erratic spark firing.
Now, GM/Holden engines of the era have the distributor shaft spinning anti-clockwise, and the breaker arm is designed to sit slightly off-centre, on the far side of the distributor shaft lobes.

Thus, if you were running a GM/Holden engine and the breaker arm got dry, you didn't end up with bouncing points! - you'd just get a squeaking noise that told you the breaker arm needed those 2 matchstick heads of grease, for lube!

The Ford distributor design was pretty much identical to GM/Holden - but the distributor shaft ran clockwise! - thus pushing the lobes against the breaker arm, and making the points bounce when they got dry, and wrecking the spark timing!

I could go on at great length, as regards the F100's foibles and failings - but suffice to say I got rid of it, and bought a Toyota diesel, and have never looked back.
The amount of problems you have with a Toyota are practically non-existent, when you compare them against the American vehicle products.

Fords design failings, and horrendous parts prices, and poor resale, are such, that I will never own a Ford again, as long as I live - and I have no desire to risk my hard-earned money again, on any other American vehicle ownership experiment.

Cheers, Ron.

I hope you feel better getting that off your chest! lol.

Believe it or not , the world and motor vehicles have changed since 1977 ,

ask him the same question in 5 or 10 tears time
the yanks are light yrs away from the build quality of the japs
mechpete

A very very simple question for Ron N & Mech Pete '' If Toyota's are so reliable why is it necessary for Toyota to carry the LARGEST spare parts inventory of any vehicle manufacturing Co ? If the vehicles are so 'reliable' why the need for all the spare parts ? As for spare parts pricing ? Explain how a crank angle sensor from Toyota is $180 yet it is the exact same sensor that you can get from Holden for $28 .......

If Toyota are carrying the largest spare parts inventory of any vehicle manufacturer, then it simply shows that Toyota have a very good commitment to spare parts backup, and the least amount of wait time for spares.

The alternative is the American system of "reducing inventory to lower structural costs" - i.e. - keep bugger-all parts on hand, and "let the customers wait until we can make it".

Re spare parts pricing - every manufacturer has a range of parts that are overpriced, or carrying pricing that is way out of line in comparison to the manufacturing costs.
This is the result of bean counters trying to recover capital and research expenditure, or capitalising on outstanding customer demand for a particularly useful, attractive, or common part.

Filters are a classic example. You can often buy OEM filters at prices that are equal to aftermarket filters - because the manufacturer knows they have stiff competition in alternative filters, and they can kill the aftermarket trade by reducing the OEM price.

However, every now and then, the bean counters stuff up and lift the price on an item, when they fail to realise they have serious competition.
Tell the Toyota dealer you can buy the CAS for $28, and I'll wager it won't be long before the Toyota price is adjusted.

I'm not sure about Toyota, but many manufacturers have an internal "price query" system, that the dealers can utilise, to query pricing on any particular part, when they find that part selling for substantially less, at another supplier.

Toyota are far from faultless, but they simply have a strong reputation for build quality, that extends to every part and component on their vehicles, which ensures that even the smallest component, switch or actuation device, stays in one piece, and stays working, long into the vehicles lifespan.

This compares to Ford and numerous other American manufacturers, who continually carry out "refinements" to their vehicles, that involve build cost reduction, not improvement of vehicle lifespan.

Examples that come to mind are plastic gears replacing metal gears, thermoplastics that fail to stand up to Australian heat levels, and cooling system components that are of inadequate quality and short lifespan.

I sold the missus' old 2002 Camry last year, it had been in the family since it was purchased, used, in 2004 - and I did all the maintenance on it, in the 14 years she owned it.
That Camry still had all the original cooling system hoses, the original radiator, all the original sensors, all the original window regulating mechanisms, all the original knobs and interior switches, and all the original air ventilation mechanisms, that all worked perfectly.

I followed the coolant change regime on the Camry as Toyota specified and used only Toyota coolant - and you could eat your dinner off the inside of any cooling system component (I had to replace the thermostat after 13 years, so I know what the inside of the cooling system looked like).

Try finding all that on a 14 yr old American-built vehicle, I'll wager a quarter of the above components would have been replaced after 14 years - all at substantially increased cost, as compared to Toyota maintenance and repair costs.

I buy new, or near-new Toyotas, to ensure I get new vehicle reliability and performance - but way too many American-sourced vehicles, provide only well-worn vehicle reliability and performance, when new.

Cheers, Ron.

Gee Ron - you sometimes make some good points but economy of words is not one of your strong points - any chance you can make your points in a simple post instead of writing a novel each time.

Ron ,seems to be you cannot answer a simple question , if the yotas are so bloody good 'why the need for all the spare parts '? ,,, As for your 2004 Camry , the wifes 2005 JEEP has NEVER had anything replaced EVER , bar oil and filters / tires & brake pads , not even the original Optima starting battery ..198,000km.....

OK Alloy c/t, I'll bite. Besides this "claim" about Toyota's spare parts inventory, exactly what evidence do you have that Toyotas aren't amongst the most reliable vehicles on the planet. It's pretty obvious they'd have a large spare parts inventory given they are one of the largest vehicle manufacturers.

Do you have access to a "reliability" survey that ranks Jeep above Toyota?

Regards

Gramps , its not a mater of biting , its quite simple really , "why the need for all the spare parts if the vehicle is so 'reliable' ? " If it aint broke it don't need fixing ...Tojo dealer in Longreach has had to replace 3 engines in 'new' Hiluxes in the last 30 days alone ....thats Tojo reliability .....

Alloy c/t,

Do you know how many Toyotas are on Australia's roads at the moment (ABS data)? Just because one dealer has had to replace 3 engines in the last 30 days means next to Jack. I suppose the dealer was responsible for prior servicing of the Hiluxs as well.

Your connection between reliability and a nebulous spare parts figure (still unsubstantiated) is tenuous at best.

Regards

Having to replace 3 engine in 30 days in the biggest-selling medium-sized ute in Australia isn't exactly a reason to claim the entire brand is a dud.

Exactly what caused those 3 engine failures? Abuse, assembly faults, or a design fault?
And are Toyota admitting fault, and "coming to the party" with some form of compensation, or part-compensation for those 3 failed engines?

Inquiring minds would like to know the whole story, before passing judgement.

FYI information, Hilux sales in the first quarter of 2018 were 12,634 units - in the corresponding first quarter of 2019, Hilux sales increased to 12,909 - despite a serious slump in car sales this calendar year.

Correspondingly, first quarter sales for 2018, for the Ford Ranger, were 10868 units - yet first quarter 2019 sales for the Ford Ranger was 9662 units.

Doesn't look like any "dud brand" sales level for Hilux, to me - but perhaps the Ford problems are becoming more well known, thus leading to a deteriorating Ford sales level.

Cheers, Ron.

I had a new colorado in 2012, what a heap, I hear lots of bad things about all of them these days, just go to product review and check your fav ute, every brand has issues, even the amazing 200 series!!!

https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/toyota-landcruiser-j200r-2008-release?sortBy=ratingLowest

Having spent nearly 3 years working in the Middle East, I can attest to the strength of the Toyota Hilux. The local indigenous people do not service their vehicles, and drive them to destruction. There were thousands of Hiluxs’ on the roads that were at least 5 years old or older being driven in one of the harshest climates in the world, using fuel of dubious quality wether petrol or diesel. Some with no windows, some with no doors, but still driving.

Macca.

Erad
They are perfect for supermarket shoppjng. You can fit lots of groceries in the tub and get them home quickly before the icecream melts too.

hi
Larger cars were common in ozzy once. Don`t have to own a truck to exp this.
Car maker would have us all driving econ sh,t boxes if they could . Car par designers all drive Camrys.

Supermarket car parks and even roadway parking spaces are still marked out at the same size they were 40 / 50 years ago even though the 'average' size of vehicles increases year on year , model on model ...space costs money ...

Not sure that is quite accurate. There was nowhere near the number of models to choose from 40 to 50 years ago as there are today so "average" is a difficult comparison. I think you'll find that cars have actually got smaller overall and are considerably easier to manoeuvre into parking bays today than back then.
I parked next to a long bed Silverado ute earlier this week in my local shopping centre and while it filled the space length wise the driver and passenger had no trouble getting in and out with cars parked either side of them. It is accurate to say that the big utes in discussion in this thread are bigger than most passenger vehicles but I suspect their manoeuvrability is actually not as bad some might think.

Hey Cruiser,

Cheer up, mate, it's the nature of the internet. I don't think anyone was having a go at you personally, and your posts drew quite a few Thanks from people who didn't post, so it's not all as bad as it may seem.

Any reply is much the same as you would find/hear during any conversation be it a group or around campfire. Entirely normal with bit of frivolity too.

Hi Ron, I guess your not going to buy one!!…...LOL....LOL.



Cheers Axle.

And at the same time over 1 million Toyotas have recall notices for various defects which can be 'life threatening' ... you Ron must be the most BIASED bloke on this forum , its 'supposedly about 'exploring Oz ' on its h/ways and by/ways and off the beaten track to places far far away , not a judgemental 'you have to have a Toyota' or a Honda gen set or any of the other bits and pieces ..enjoy the country ..