D4D/1KDFTV Prado

Submitted: Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 21:01
ThreadID: 138352 Views:2006 Replies:11 FollowUps:14
Hi all

Have just purchased a 120 Series Prado 2009 model.
Very happy with the car, very clean and well looked after with full log book servicing etc. Injectors replaced at 190KM (currently has 210).

However, I am now very concerned with some of the things I'm reading about this motor, or am I jumping the gun a little? I'm sure if I researched every motor on the market there would be some niggle about each, possibly a little more niggle about the D4D perhaps because there is millions of them?

My take on it all... (I have had a common rail before, zd30 Navara which let me down in the end) I believe the following will help reduce any failures...


1) ALWAYS purchase good diesel, not at remote locations. If you know you are going to go remote then take LOTS of good diesel with you to avoid bad bowsers.
2) Service every 5K not 10K. I did 5K servicing on the zd30 and it makes sense. All oils and filters every 5K. Or is this just erring on the side of caution too much?
3) Get the injectors replaced every 150K, or potentially a little less.
4) Let the vehicle warm up and warm down after each use.

Someone please restore some confidence into my purchase,,, LOL. I know many Prado and Hilux owners that to my knowledge have never had any issues what-so-ever. Is the issues on this motor confined to a particular year model etc?

Great looking site. Thanks for info in advance :)
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Reply By: RMD - Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 21:12

Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 21:12
Lakefield1
Why on earth would you change oil every 5,000km on a crd engine with new injectors. With decent oil quality used, it will easily go to 10,000km because the oil will not have gone dark until after 5,000km. ie, see stick through oil at that km's.
If a well performing oil is used the rings seal far better AND that stops the sump oil becoming dirty, far more effectively.
If you have to change oil at 5,000km then you have to change oil Brand and quality. Fit a decent pre filter so it ensures graduated filtering before OE system too, for some additional insurance on fuel system.
AnswerID: 625609

Follow Up By: Lakefield1 - Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 21:17

Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 21:17
Like I said I've just taken on the vehicle. It's just been serviced so of-course the oil looks fresh as, haven't seen what it would look like at 5K. Makes for good insurance, but if you suggest it's overkill then I'll see what it looks like at 5K then.
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FollowupID: 899292

Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 22:29

Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 22:29
Lakefield1
Early non turbo Hilux vehicle engines used to dirty the oil quite soon. With a turbo CRD engine it burns much cleaner, far less carbon particulates in the combustion/exhaust stream. Therefore, far less oil changes required. I have owned turbo diesels for 32 years and never changed oil before 10,000km. With a full synthetic I now run until at least 16,000km and oil is cleaner then than the normal good oil was at 10,000km. A fuel filter gets better at filtering as it is used, yes there is a life limit if course. I change my two filters at around 30,000km or two years. The pre will restrict first and I carry two spares. Air filter is a Unifiter and cleaned twice in 70,000km. No dust passes the filter element. Reusable with two filters pads. One as spare.
Good Insurance is one thing, throwing money away is another.
PS. Not sure if you notice Navaras smoke a lot on take off, that alone will cause oil blackness prematurely.
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FollowupID: 899295

Reply By: Gronk - Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 21:51

Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 21:51
Especially on the Prado, but the issue happens on other 4wds as well ( 200 series is just one ), don't replace injectors at any interval......but keep an eye on injector values.
Either do it yourself with a downloaded computer program ( and OBD dongle ) or get a dealer to check them say once a year.
If an injector ( or several ) gets out of value, then the dreaded hole in piston scenario can happen.
AnswerID: 625610

Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 22:03

Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 22:03
Hi,

I had a 2007 120 Series D4D Prado and sold it 7 years later in 2014. That model was the early D4D that had the injector and injector seal problems. IIRC by 2009 or 10 they had it sorted in production, but I may be wrong, it may have been later.

Mine had injector problems that were picked up by the dealer during routine service at about 60k/2 years and were replaced under warranty.

Apart from the early injectors themselves, the other problem was the early injector sealing washers. They could leak hot combustion gases into the rocker cover and cause carbonisation of engine oil. The carbon granules migrated to the sump and were picked up on the oil pump inlet mesh filter and over time would choke the mesh, leading to oil starvation and a failed engine. This mainly occurred in engines that were not given scheduled oil changes. Ie, abused and neglected.

Redesigned washers appeared early in the engine's life to address the problem. Your injectors, having been recently replaced, will have the new washers so you should not have a problem. The filter mesh is directly above the sump drain, so if you're worried about any residual issues you can easily check the mesh with an inspection camera through the sump drain.

I stuck to book service intervals of 10k, but after or during an arduous trip would do an intermediate oil change at 5k. By arduous I mean outback or mountainous towing, close to GCM, hot weather. With that regime I never had any problems apart from the one warranty issue I mentioned up to the time I sold it at 160k/7 years.

I kept in touch with the next owner for 2 years and he had no problems, despite giving it a bashing.

An oil catch can is beneficial. If it hasn't got one, consider an intake system clean out and then fit one, but if it's running fine there's no hurry.

EDIT: If it's an automatic a transmission cooler is easy to fit, inexpensive and well worthwhile, IMO, particularly if towing.

A good resource is Pradopoint. There is another one set up by a guy who broke away from Pradopoint. He's a real 120 Prado guru, but I can't find his site now, sorry, but he's worth searching for.

Re your point (1). All common rail diesels are the same re contaminated fuel. The Prado is no different, so no special precautions for that engine over any other. As RMD said, a pre filter would be a good investment if it hasn't already got one.

Point (2) - already discussed above

Point (3) - Rather than that fixed regime, every so often get injector feedback values checked by a dealer. If they are within tolerances, leave them alone. If outside, replace. A metallic pinging when cold is a sign they need checking.

Point (4) - I did warm mine up a bit, but not excessively. Just a few minutes. I only warmed down if stopping after the engine had been working hard - towing, prolonged highway speeds, hills, etc. In suburban duty I don't believe it's necessary. Opinions differ, but that's my take.

It's a great vehicle. I would still have it but my wife told me to buy a new BT50 for a tourer and set it up, so I did :-)

Cheers



AnswerID: 625611

Reply By: Member - cruza25 - Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 23:20

Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 23:20
Keep a check on the injectors with tech stream via a laptop. Available on eBay

Fit an egr plate with a 7mm hole to stop codes

Inspect the inlet egr valve and have it cleaned if full of soot and oil glue

Change the oil and filter every 5k

Forget the catch can. A waste of money. The top end needs a bit of oil vapour

Change the 2 fuel filters every 20k max

They are a good motor just need looking after.

Mine is at 190 k All good so far
AnswerID: 625614

Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:32

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:32
cruza25
What parts are you calling the "topend"?
If in the cylinder is what you are referring to, it gets sprayed with diesel quite often.

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FollowupID: 899297

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 09:14

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 09:14
And the valves and cams run in liquid oil.
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FollowupID: 899299

Follow Up By: Member - cruza25 - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 13:52

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 13:52
Inlet valve seats might benefit a little. The set up of having a blank plate with a 7mm hole and no catch can is what Anthony ( 1kd expert) recommends.

I recently did a flinders trip with Anthony and he certainly knows these engines very well.

The plate will stop 95% of the soot going back through the inlet manifold and combustion chamber. Since I fitted mine and cleaned the caked soot from the egr valve and elbow to the inlet manifold, it is still cleanish after 40k
The engine oil stays clear for a lot longer than before.
The 150 series has 2 filters as standard so a third might be a bit of overkill.
Regular changes to the 2 factory filters 20k may be better.
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FollowupID: 899306

Follow Up By: Stevemac - Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 21:32

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 21:32
Anthony, who has a vested interest in his recommendations, was destroyed by Skywalkerun. Do not fit blank plates. Catch can can do no harm whereas the blank plate throws the computer out. It is probably Skywalker who has set up the new website. He has rallied against all the chips, blank plates and problems that have arisen. A lot of his deniers have since disappeared after their chickens came home to roost. I suggest you go to the Pradopoint website and follow the discussions/archives.

New seals in late 2008/2009 sorted the injector problem out. 10,000 km service perfectly good under reasonable use.
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FollowupID: 899328

Follow Up By: Ozi M - Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 09:22

Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 09:22
The recommendation to fit a $10 plate supplied by someone else and then free advice on how to fit it hardly qualifies as a vested interest IMO

Anthony was the first to identify that brass seals instead of copper, were being used by a certain supplier. He copped a ton of flak over that but he was right and saved a few motors by calling it.

He has never recommended a blank plate, the smallest he tried was a 6mm plate which occassionally would throw a 0400 code but settled on a 7mm plate which worked fine.

The oil going through the motor is there for lubrication, the inlet blocks up because of the grit from the EGR, so the choice is yours, dry grit through your motor or oil for lube

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FollowupID: 899330

Follow Up By: Member - cruza25 - Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 12:54

Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 12:54
There are many many 1kds out there with a 7mm plate and they don’t get error codes and have nice clean intakes and no grit or soot going back into the inlet

If you look at the examples in photos on 1kd pages they are pretty choked after 50-60 k

It’s your choice to fit or not but have a look at the pictures first.
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FollowupID: 899333

Reply By: qldcamper - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 07:31

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 07:31
You cant believe everything you read on forums. The hilux forum had several mechanics contributing and scaring people into unnecessary over servicing. When the shit hit the fan over the injector seals being imported by a large diesel specialist down south and litigation was iminant the mechanics soon tried to delete anything relating to them supporting the regular changing over to these seals and have since disappeared from the forum.

Oil change at 5k? The same engine in the same hilux in NZ i believe the dealer service interval is 15k, choose a good quality oil and ring their technical help service and talk to them about it.
Many other brand in a similar class to the 1KD in Australia is 15k as well.
You will do your engine a lot more good warming it up and not moving it till the temp gauge has atleast reached the first white line on the gauge, loading a cold engine will blacken the oil very quickly as well as wear its components very quickly, more blowby and the oil doesnt reach its rated viscosity till its 100 degrees so the warmer it is the better, thats why i run a 15/50 not 15/40.
Also if it is an auto think about running an inline filter as well as a cooler, partical contamination is the second biggest killer of auto fluid after over heating, the transmissions dont have a filter.
AnswerID: 625618

Follow Up By: qldcamper - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 07:33

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 07:33
Can i just add that most of the people that have serious trouble with relativly new 1KD engines have a chip added.
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FollowupID: 899296

Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:42

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:42
QLDcamper
Exactly how does the loading of a cold engine blacken the oil more quickly?
An oils rated viscosity is determined at 20C in tests. Warmer isn't better with engine oils, hot enough, but too hot, is why most have oil cooling systems built into the engine.
Unless it is a Harley Davidson, most precision diesel engine require less than a 50 grade oil, the engine manufacturers don't specify that grade. Pumping losses are too high. Thick doesn't mean better at all.
Thinner initial grade allows the oil to get to ALL moving parts earlier than with thicker oils and prevents/lessens cold start wear when there isn't the bath of oil on parts at startup time.
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FollowupID: 899298

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 14:18

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 14:18
At the risk of firing up the usual oil arguments, personally I think far too much importance is placed on (new) oil "quality" - by quality I mean syn V min and wide V narrow multi-grades. As long as you stick to recommended standards and change your oil and filters regularly you won't be doing damage. In some cases that means expensive synthetic.

In theory multi-grade oils (like 15-50) are not as good as/should be changed more often than more specific grades. Of course a narrow grade band doesn't help if you're operating in extreme conditions which range from very cold to very hot. I've always used "the old standard" 15-40 min oil in both my early diesel and now my petrol Jackaroo but that's more likely to be 5-30 syn in my next vehicle.
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FollowupID: 899307

Follow Up By: qldcamper - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 16:25

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 16:25
RMD
According to the penrite tech help multigrade oil doesnt reach its max viscosity till it is at 100 degrees, at 20 it would be closer to its W rating.

If you have ever seen a operators manual for a 1kd toyota you will have seen that a 15/50 oil is recomended for hoter climates.

Loading a cold engine will cause excessive blowby due to the oil rings not having reached their design size and sealing correctly.
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FollowupID: 899311

Reply By: Michael H9 - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:05

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:05
I've had 2 crd's that have done 300k plus on factory service intervals on the original injectors. They weren't Nissan or Toyota, so unless you think Nissan and Toyota make inferior motors I don't see why you need to take all these precautions. I heard there were a batch of injectors and seals that caused a problem and it was fixed. There's too much information available these days, a lot of it supplied by numptys.
AnswerID: 625621

Reply By: Member - Bigfish - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:23

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 08:23
Oil change every 10,000. Wasting your money doing it before. Wasting a valuable resource as well. All quality oil manufacturers oil will easily get you15000klm...easily. Put a secondary fuel filter on as well..3-5 micron.

JOIN THE PRADO FORUM FOR INFORMATION FROM ACTUAL OWNERS AND THEIR EXPERIENCES...
AnswerID: 625622

Reply By: Ozi M - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 09:40

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 09:40
In one of replies there is a reference to the 120 guru on Pradopoint, his nick was anth120.

He only works on the Toyo 3L diesel motor, Prado and Hilux

If you run a search for anthony prado you can find him, he his that famous.

He does still do some work on the motors but these days he sells a lot of spare parts, they come as complete kits and with free advice

Worthwhile for you to at least know how to find him.
AnswerID: 625625

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:33

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:33
I have found some references to the bloke I had in mind. His nick was Talktheroo, lives in Brisbane. He had his own forum 4 years ago when I sold my Prado - don't know if he still has it.

More recently he was active on NewHilux.net but has since left. You may be able to track him down through members there.

Between him and anth120 the OP should get the full story on the 1KD FTV engine.
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FollowupID: 899302

Follow Up By: Ozi M - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 16:20

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 16:20
From memory Roos first name was John and he also had a Facebook page (like Anth) he had a mobile mechanic business in Brisbane so that might help find him.

Anthony (Melbourne bloke) has a FB page called Prado Hospital with videos on DIY stuff.

Same motor as Hilux (as you would already know) so good for anyone with a Toyo 3L diesel motor
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FollowupID: 899309

Reply By: Ron N - Monday, May 20, 2019 at 21:39

Monday, May 20, 2019 at 21:39
Lakefield1 - Below is a website with good technical information on 120 Prado problems and recalls.

You should not have too many problems with your 1KDFTV engine unless it has been chipped (and the chip removed before sale), or if it has towed a big 'van (around maximum GCM) at highway speeds for extended distances, or if it has been abused via poor quality fuels (petrol added accidentally), or been badly maintained (long periods between oil changes).

Australian Car Reviews - 120 Prado problems and recalls

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 625654

Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 14:15

Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 14:15
The early D4D's suffered because of the injectors they chose. later models used an upgraded injector with a Diamond Tip and all has been good. Certainly I have a D4D in my family of vehicles and injectors were replaced at 110,000 and now the vehicle is nudging 300,000 and runs like new. There are thousands of D4D;s that have clocked over 1 Million KM's.
AnswerID: 625672

Reply By: Lakefield1 - Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 21:29

Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 21:29
Thankyou all for the responses.

My continued research has eased my head a little. My 2009 looks like it was spared and didn't face the dramas like previous models back to 2006 did. I like buying the last series of any car so my pre homework paid some dividends.

I never thought Id buy a Prado but after only one week I can't fault it. I am super impressed to say the least.
AnswerID: 625707

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