advice on insurance, please

Submitted: Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 04:41
ThreadID: 138721 Views:1441 Replies:7 FollowUps:19
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I have been trying to insure my Toyota Hiace 4x4 with Club 4x4 for 2 months now but still have not been able to extraxt a quote from them and are totally over it.

Are there other insurers that offer an agreed value on the vehicle and are also willing to insure the modifications?
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Reply By: Shaker - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 08:20

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 08:20
Did they tell you why they wouldn’t give you a quote?
AnswerID: 626732

Follow Up By: annelies - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 08:50

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 08:50
Hi Shaker, no, around 15/05/2019 I requested a quote through their website and never received the promised email in order to send 4 photos of the vehicle in, until a reminder came in on 29/05/2019.
I sent the photos on 17/06/2019 as there was no photo opportunity at the time of request. No confirmation.

When I called on 29/06/2019 I was on the phone with a lady and went through all the details again. I was promised a quote the same day but it never arrived.

I called on 05/07/2019 and received 2 emails requesting documentation and, again, photos of the vehicle.
All were sent on 08/07/2019.

No follow up till this day.

What I would like to insure is an agreed value of the TH SLWB + the modifications:
4WD EnduroCo system + auxiliary diesel tank + bull bar + high top roof.


cheers,

Tina
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FollowupID: 900646

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:10

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:10
Hi Annelies

Try emailing Aiden Frost, Marketing Manager at Club 4x4. I've always found the team at Club 4x4 fairly responsive.

Email: aiden@club4x4.com.au

Good luck

Cheerd, Baz - The Landy
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FollowupID: 900650

Follow Up By: annelies - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:22

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:22
Hi Baz, thanks for the information.
I need the vehicle insured 22.7, so at the moment I am in contact with Budget Direct but will keep this option open.
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FollowupID: 900651

Reply By: Griffin - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 08:31

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 08:31
It's a grey import and as such hardly any of the underwriters will touch it. I went through this 2 years ago with mine and the only joy I got was from Shannons but the upside is that they are a great company to deal with. I wasn't able to insure it for what I paid for it (too much) but that's understandable.
Good luck with it.
Brian
AnswerID: 626733

Follow Up By: annelies - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 09:01

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 09:01
Hi Griffin, thanks for your reply but it is not a grey import. We bought it from an Australian Company (delivery van) in Port Melbourne and had it driven to the EnduroCo guys for all the modifications.

We do have a grey import though, a 1999 Mitsubishi Delica 4x4 which is still uninsured other then CTP.
It's hubby's so I'll let him deal with this one. I'll pass on your experience with Shannons. Thanks.

Unfortunately they are not able to insure the TH as we are in the process of converting it in a campervan and Shannon does not insure anything that can be slept in, they told me.

cheers,

Tina
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FollowupID: 900647

Reply By: duck - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:20

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:20
If you get your vehicle valued by a licenced valuer you will find it a lot easier to get an agreed value & insurance, (this may cost as much as an insurance policy) I have had to do this with my Isuzu NPS300 4x4 truck with warrior conversion (it has a 2nd manufactures plate) & has a lot of extras, I’ve also had to do this with a few US imported 4x4s that I have owned
But as previous threads it’s no guarantee the insurance company is going to do the wright or legal obligation without a fight if a claim is made
AnswerID: 626735

Follow Up By: annelies - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:46

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:46
Thanks Duck, I will look into that possibility as well.
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FollowupID: 900655

Reply By: Member - Rusty - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:28

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 10:28
yes well I was with them and I think they have lost the plot maybe going out the back door I feel , just changed to Shannons with same cover and cheaper all extras etc as Club 4X4 thought they were good but was concerned would not be covered and main thing they wanted $800 more this year on renewal watch out!
AnswerID: 626736

Follow Up By: annelies - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:53

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:53
Thanks for sharing your experience, Rusty.

Shannon might be a good try for the Delica.

We used it as a very basic campervan but since I sold my 2006 Nissan Patrol 4.2 some weeks ago, we are left with two-seaters only. Not good if you have to collect family from the airport or something like that.
We are going to pull out the floor and put the seats back in, so Shannon might be interested this time.

cheers
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FollowupID: 900657

Reply By: Winner W - Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:44

Monday, Jul 15, 2019 at 12:44
I can imagine if they are that slow to get your business how long you will have to wait in case of a claim ?
AnswerID: 626739

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:23

Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:23
Shannons , easy as , and a 'point' to remember is that their policy covers ALL of Australia not just gazetted roads and lines on a map which a lot of the bigger companies actually fail to disclose 'on purpose' to get out of settling a claim ....
AnswerID: 626781

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:34

Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:34
Alloy

No insurance company can "fail to disclose" something in order to get out of settling a claim.

Australian law requires insurers to include all the terms and conditions of the insurance product in a document, known as the Product Disclosure Statement (PDS).

It also discloses its responsibilities to you the policy holder, and what your responsibilities are to the insurer.

If they are going to exclude areas, roads, tracks, whatever, which they won't cover it must be disclosed in the PDS document.

That is the whole idea of a PDS, everyone has a clear understanding of what they get and what they don't get - the problem is too many people fail to read the document...

So rest easy...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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FollowupID: 900711

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:58

Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:58
Baz , by 'fail to disclose' is very simple and very easy , 68 pages of PDS which unless you have a Solicitor 'on tap' becomes nothing but legalise jargon designed to confuse ....simple words such as 'flood water' end up as rain event - high tide - etc etc ....Off road has so many meanings as does 'modified' for insurance that the average person without a law degree has no hope ...
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FollowupID: 900712

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:08

Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:08
Hi Alloy

Happy to agree to disagree, noting that all PDS documents must be written in plain english that is easily understood.

But if you do come across a term that is not defined in the document, such as off-road (for example) ask them what they mean before you sign up for the policy...but you'll find that most (all) PDS documents will have a "glossary of terms" or similar that define what "off-road" means...

Most insurance companies work to pay most claims, they aren't in the business of simply knocking back claims to save money - if getting paid an insurance claim was that much of a lottery no one would insure and insurance companies would be out of business.

If you comply with the PDS you will have little problem in having a claim met...let's not perpetuate "insurance myths" here.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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FollowupID: 900713

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:49

Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:49
Baz , that is the problem , it is NOT a myth , be it car insurance or house insurance . There are still hundreds of 'claims' outstanding from cyclone Yasi ..Was it a flood event ? A rain event ? A tidal surge ? All because of 'plain English' in the PDS , Same goes for the 'floods' in Townsville .. Flood ? Water runoff ? High Tide ? There is no such thing as a benevolent insurance company , ,all answer to 'investors and share holders with the main objective is to collect 'premiums' and NOT pay out ...
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FollowupID: 900714

Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:59

Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:59
If a scenario is not outlined in the PDS then you are covered for that scenario. The only areas that you covered has to be outlined in the "not covered" section of the PDS and if it is not there you are covered.
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FollowupID: 900715

Follow Up By: Kenell - Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 13:46

Wednesday, Jul 17, 2019 at 13:46
Baz and Ozzie are quite correct in what they are saying. Insurers are bound by very strict laws and requirements. The actual settlement rate (up until 2 years ago when I last checked) is about 96% of all lodged claims. I don't know the current stats for Yasi claims but I would be happy to clarify why some can take a while to settle but don't want to sidetrack this thread.
The problem with insuring one offs or unique vehicles is that most insurers are only equipped to handle square pegs in square holes. One off underwriters like Shannons are the exception. Grey imports, heavily modifieds and home made type arrangements are very difficult to source cover for.
It might be worth calling the Insurance Council of Australia in the state and ask for some assistance. Also try calling NIBA (National Insurance Brokers Assn) and ask them to direct you. Both can be googled.
Kenell
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FollowupID: 900719

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 10:13

Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 10:13
Hey Baz , give you an example of 'failure to disclose' by an insurance company in their PDF and contract .. Allianz ... without any disclosure changed their rating system for 'no claim' bonuses to a 'star system' creating an immediate 45% increase in premiums .....where you had a 60% 'no claim' bonus you without warning [ only disclosed after payment of policy ] that a 'star' system that gives you a maximum 15% 'no claim bonus' is now in force ...thieves and robbers ....
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FollowupID: 900769

Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:25

Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:25
In the PDF it does say that terms and conditions can be changed without notice.
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FollowupID: 900773

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:30

Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 11:30
There's been recent articles as regards the "loyalty penalty" or "loyalty tax" imposed on clients of many companies - and this includes insurance companies - who renew their contract without querying any contract or premium increases.

Insurance companies are all major corporations, and in my experience, all large corporations are totally bereft of ethics, morals, and concern for their clients.

Large corporations exist to serve their senior management and shareholders as a priority - and clients come last, in any financial considerations where it appears there is going to be a conflict between clients and corporate profits.

We've seen this with the Royal Commission into banking - if a Royal Commission was held into insurance, there would be an equivalent amount of ruthless, morally-bankrupt, corporate behaviour uncovered, as was uncovered in banks behaviour.

The second concerning feature of insurance policies, is the lack of conformity between descriptions and definitions of "insured events" between companies.

A definition of an "insured event" in one companys PDS can be different to another insurance companys definition of an "insured event".

This is unfair to insurance holders and the insurance companies are happy to continue to perpetrate differences in terms and definitions - according to their particular PDS.

Yes, the bottom line is, read the insurance PDS very carefully and very thoroughly, and enquire about definitions and terms you don't understand.
And never, ever renew a policy without shopping around, and placing pressure on your insurer when it comes to policy renewal pricing.

I have refined my policy renewal approach to a fine art today, because I have been ripped off so much in the past.

The process essentially becomes a major negotiation effort, and you must always get past the first contact person in the company, and ensure you talk to a "supervisor" or "manager", who you find, has the ability to knock 5% or 10% off your policy renewal cost, without batting an eyelid.

There's a very good talk in the link below, by Gerard Brody, CEO of the Consumer Action Law Centre, advising consumers as regards the corporations "loyalty taxes".

Consumer rights and protections and the value of loyalty

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 900774

Follow Up By: Kenell - Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 15:42

Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 15:42
Sorry Ron but the Hayne Royal Commission included insurance coys in its enquiries and in fact I know some of the people who appeared before it. Insurance policies are similar to banking products in that they are all different in both definitions and scope of cover and for that reason they are also differently priced. I am most critical of the loyalty taxes and hopefully some of the "noise" around this aspect at present will have the desired impact.
Kenell
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FollowupID: 900778

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 21:02

Friday, Jul 19, 2019 at 21:02
Kenell - Sadly, the terms of reference of the Haynes Commission were so restricted, they barely touched on Insurance companys misdemeanors, and lack of ethics.

Even the banks got off lightly, if the terms of reference were broadened to the areas they should have been, the Commission would be running for 10 years.

AFAIC, the worst thing that ever happened to Australia in terms of letting bank greed run rampant, is the day that Keating allowed the "Big Four" to destroy the Commonwealth Bank, as the primary protector of bank customers, against exactly the type of ruthless and morally-bankrupt bank behaviour, that has been going on in Australia, since 1998.

King O'Malley must be spinning in his grave at turbocharger speed. He knew what bank greed was, he saw it in America in the 1870's and 1880's, and he knew that only a competitive Govt-owned bank would stop the private banks from running roughshod over their customers.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 900781

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Saturday, Jul 20, 2019 at 10:16

Saturday, Jul 20, 2019 at 10:16
Hands-up those who "haven't" benefitted financially from these morally corrupt banks over the past 25 years, through dividends, dividend imputation, and capital gains...?

Um, as I thought, I can count you all on one hand.

Bear in mind, if you have Superannuation in any form of balanced or index fund you're benefitting.

Banks play an important role in our society and whilst there have been aspects over the past 25 years that have sullied the industry, keep in mind they have provided employment for many Australian's over a long period of time, not too mention assisting many Australian's purchase their own home...

And throughout the GFC Australia's banks maintained a high rating with the credit rating agencies, something that assisted all Australian's, and it has been the big four-pillar policy that made that possible...

Love them or hate them, Australia's big four bank are amongst the world's most efficient from a capital management perspective - and that is good for us all.

Cheers Baz - The Landy



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FollowupID: 900785

Reply By: annelies - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2019 at 21:06

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2019 at 21:06
To everyone whom replied to my question:"Thank you very much for your time and interest".
At the end of the day I managed to get an insurance with Club4x4.

I did contact other insurers but nobody was willing to insure the van for an
agreed value and the modifications on top of that.
There were insurers that did not want to insure the van at all from the moment I mentioned the fitting of a high top roof.
For them the van was between "normal use" and campervan stage and it could only be insured as campervan when the conversion was finished.

Therefore I stayed with Suncorp where the van was insured for an agreed value of 57K. Suncorp was not bothered by the modifications including the roof, but would not pay out more then the 57K. Annual premium 1257.

With Club 4x4 I have the 2017 van insured for an agreed value of 39K, modifications for 60K with an annual premium of 1325.
I am quite happy about that.

cheers,

AnswerID: 627261

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Aug 16, 2019 at 07:20

Friday, Aug 16, 2019 at 07:20
That sounds like a good outcome...

I think Kalen and his team at Club 4x4 do work hard to provide a product that suits and fits what is required for people travelling Australia in modified vehicles.

Cheers, Baz
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FollowupID: 901269

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