Pity Facebook has killed forums so much.

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 17:27
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Pity and somewhat of a shame that Facebook has nearly killed off forums. Personally I *LOATHE* Facebook and it's HORRID interface.
Bit dismayed to see how few posts here these days and other forums that were good forums with no shortage of good posts, and now hardly any. Not that I am a regular poster, more of a lurker.
Interestingly in the US and Canada forums are still doing well, especially in some areas of interest. I do reasonable amount of volunteer work in the USA and little bit in Canada and none of the organisations thankfully use Facebook other than for promotional purposes. The other good thing about the US forums they are now basically designed for Android phones and tablets for use with the Samsung Browser which can be used on all brands of equipment. IMHO the Samsung Browser is the best and feature wise.
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Reply By: Dusta - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:28

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:28
pity samsung has probably the worst android interface on the market

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Follow Up By: Dave B18 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:50

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:50
Samsung phones and tablets are *AWFUL* in interface and bloatware, and trying to get customers into a semi-walled environment like Apple. I would *NEVER* buy Samsung hardware. However the Samsung Browser is excellent.
I use Lenovo P10 tablet and AndroidOne phones, and presently use a Nokia 6.1 phone.
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Reply By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:33

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:33
Facebook has a lot of good user groups for people with similar interests on a huge range of subjects - they are no different to any other forum really. Other stuff that gets up your nose can easliy be ignored.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Dave B18 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:51

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:51
Yes there is some good stuff, but the Facebook interface is terrible in the extreme. I am Buggered if I know why Facebook has become so popular.
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 19:21

Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 19:21
@DaveB18 ... what you mean is that you dislike the interface ... Wondering why you think that one person's opinion is important?
L:ook at the user numbers, and you'll find that you are in the minority.

I hope you feel better having vented here, but reality is that FB has its uses, as do the other fora.
Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in the hospital, dying of nothing.

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Reply By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:45

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:45
I'm a one man rebellion against Facebook. I don't want to support it by giving information to it that can be used for other purposes. Google is bad enough. I don't mind forums because they are less intrusive on my life. A totally connected lifestyle is not for me....and I'm an IT professional.
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Follow Up By: Dave B18 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:54

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 18:54
The e-mail address I use on Facebook I don't use anywhere else, and all the information I gave them is fake.
I have been on the internet since day one, and a bit of a tech junkie, and certainly don't need a connected lifestyle like some. Cannot believe the time some spend on Facebook and the diatribe they post.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 19:01

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 19:01
It seems like an extension of reality television, where people get engrossed in what other people are doing. I can't stand that, and haven't watched free to air tv for at least 15 years. I see a smattering of reality tv every now and then by accident and wonder how it survives. Don't even start me on the shopping channels.....how can they stay in business???
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 19:27

Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 19:27
"I have been on the internet since day one," I actually doubt that.
The internet was started waay back in 1969. Back then we used text only, no graphics unless you ere adept at making a "sorta" image with keyboard available characters (remember ?)

TBH you are starting to sound like an angry old man. ;)
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 22:50

Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 22:50
There were no publicly available internet providors in Australia until 1989. Before then it was only available to government agencies like defence or research labs in universities. The early 90's was the start of the internet as we now know it because a lot of the common network protocols didn't get standardized until then thereby allowing cross platform communication.
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Follow Up By: Dave B18 - Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 01:06

Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 01:06
johnat, yes, I have been on the Internet basically since day one 1971!!!
When I came back to Australia, AOL had dial-in node's in capital cities and Brisbane from memory was the first. Qld Uni believe was the first uni with a permanent connection.
You are sounding like a ignorant impetuous poorly educated youth.
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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 19:52

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 19:52
I think facebook is killing more brain cells than forums !!!
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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 20:02

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 20:02
Facebook has bugger all to do with forums dying. It's the way people act that drives people out of forums. The shit that goes on in forums isn't tolerated on facebook groups because they are heavily moderated or the people just leave and find a better group
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 20:13

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 20:13
Perhaps that too, but facebook also plays a big part
CJ
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 20:35

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 20:35
Ivan...100%

Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 06:56

Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 06:56
Hit the nail on the head, Ivan. That's why I don't post much on here :)
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 07:42

Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 07:42
I've noticed a big reduction in the number of flame wars on most forums lately. People have adapted to online communication as it becomes easier to recognize trolls and answer without engaging in literary fisticuffs. You've already lost if you argue with strangers on the internet.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 07:47

Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 07:47
Further to my last comment, if you really want to reduce conflict, any post containing anything political or religious should be removed straight away.....problem solved. Let's just discuss touring Australia? :-)
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 07:51

Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 07:51
Spot on Michael.
I have a number of FB groups, and political and religious content are strictly banned.
As a result, they are friendly places that tend to self-moderate, with little input from me required.
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Reply By: Mick O - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 21:48

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 21:48
Don't have a Facepage and never will! A reduced digital footprint is a good thing in my book. Don't have apiece of apple equipment anywhere in the house either and probably never will.
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Friday, Sep 06, 2019 at 12:26

Friday, Sep 06, 2019 at 12:26
Mick, understand your position re Facebook, but your stance re Apple is about as logical and relevant as saying "I don't have a Toyota in my garage and probably never will".
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Sep 06, 2019 at 18:44

Friday, Sep 06, 2019 at 18:44
I don't like Apple stuff either. I've tried computer, ipad, iphone and apple tv. Wouldn't bother with any of them again. The interface on every one of them was annoying, plus they were over priced.
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Reply By: Member - nickb "boab" - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 21:54

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 21:54
I agree with Greg there are a lot of good Pages/ groups of interest on FB and it's just another tool for your interests . There certainly isn't the wide range of page of topics on forums like there is on FB . IMO Facebook and forums are two completely different things , But both will waste your time if you're not the weary ..
Just Ignore all the hatred and crap , you can get that anywhere .
Cheers Nick b
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Reply By: eaglefree - Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 22:53

Tuesday, Aug 27, 2019 at 22:53
I like FB.

Sharing photos with family and friends interstate, connecting with old Air Force friends and relatives I never knew I had.

And I dont care about organizations that gather my personal details.
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Follow Up By: Gbc.. - Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 07:21

Thursday, Aug 29, 2019 at 07:21
Same. I went to boarding school then worked all over. Fb is a good way of keeping in touch.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 23:29

Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 23:29
"And I dont care about organizations that gather my personal details"

You'll live to regret that, particularly when you realise all the personal details you gave away for nothing, is being "monetised" and turned into serious earnings for some corporation - while they gave you nothing, in return for all that you gave them.

Then there's the scumbag working in IT who gains access to all your personal details (despite it being supposedly "secure"), and then uses those personal details for his benefit, via ID theft, or other nefarious criminal activity.

Getting lots of scam emails and phone calls? Just the overseas crims making good use of all your personal information, that you gave away without a care.

Nothing is secure in todays world, and certainly not on the internet.

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: pedro the swift - Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:07

Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:07
Don't know about whats "killing" any forums. Could be a lot of different issues.
As far as trolling,bulling and abuse goes , the answer is very simple, ALL wishing to become members and post MUST provide VERIFIABLE identification which can be checked for validity.
This would make poster of abuse, bullying and any other thing that may be illegal or harmful subject to civil or criminal action.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:29

Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:29
Hiding behind s pseudonym won't necessarily prevent you being identified and pursued for legal reasons. A forum which I used to be a member of was forced twice (through legal action) to reveal the identities/emails/IP addresses of some of its members.

One was a prominent Middle Eastern airline, the other, Dick Smith.
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 16:13

Wednesday, Aug 28, 2019 at 16:13
My observation is as follows:
- The Facebook app by design uses "push notifications" to keep audiences engaged. So, even when you don't have FB open you will generally still get an audible and/or visual notification for all interactions on the pages/groups/people you follow.Whilst you can turn off your notifications from selected apps, it is not the default which means most people don't know or can't manage how to turn it off. Remember many people also wear smart watches so any apps that get notifications are also sending notifications to the watch.

- In comparison, a web-based Forum does not generally use push notifications in the same way. On ExplorOz for example, we offer an opt-in to receive an email alert to activity in the posts you have started/replied to but this is much more passive.

FB is like a big hole for all the different aspects of your interests - in the one place you can follow your family/friends/pages/groups of your choosing - plus the app will send you other things based on your interests (sponsored posts are advertising from companies that have targetted you based on your demographics or other pages you follows). Most website Forums are not able to reach you as frequently - it is typically your choice to open the Forum webpage of your choice so this naturally reduces how often a person thinks of a Forum vs how often they are on FB receiving push notifications.

We live in a different time where people are consuming so much information and are trying to keep up with a lifestyle balance of work, family, interests that they tend to read less detail and have an attention span of a few seconds. Facebook and Instagram have attracted people to their services based on this - the modern mindset.

Personally, I see far more aggression in Facebook but this would be less so in closed groups but more seen in public comments on news items, or controversial stories where bigotry, misogyny, transphobia, homophobia, anti cyclist, anti - anything, and all manner of opinionated differences are aired. Once you move into Closed Groups and Forums (which are more similar) this type of behaviour occurs less due to moderation. It also appears that Facebook doesn't get subjected to the same sort of spam posting, or advertisers masquerading as consumers like what happens on webbased services.

At the end of the day, each of us has the freedom to choose what services we prefer to use and for that in Australia we should be thankful.
Michelle Martin
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Reply By: dola dave - Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:14

Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:14
I'm 73 and would not even know how to get on , not interested
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Reply By: RMD - Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:45

Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:45
It isn't Faceache's fault completely, many people who are younger than 60 have grown with the app and have a different attitude to life. They don't want to discuss and consider things as is done on forums. They want their information immediately and all too often they want you to confirm what they already believe, if not they are offended. It is a whole different way of working and it appeals to the, I want it NOW generation.
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Follow Up By: Crusader - Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 20:23

Friday, Aug 30, 2019 at 20:23
It seems to me, the casual observer, that some of the people on this forum are offended if confirmation of what they believe isn't forthcoming....so perhaps its not confined to one generation or demographic.
Perhaps the issue is a wider-spread unwillingness or inability to recognise or accept another persons belief,reality or understanding.

Cheers

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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 00:01

Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 00:01
What actually kills forums is poor moderation and poor webmaster interaction.

I've been on computers, the internet and forums since 1998 - only a few months after Windows 98 was released. I was nearly 50 before I learnt anything about computers - but I'm glad I did. I ended up building my own computers from scratch.

I can recall that the early internet was truly fascinating as people discovered a whole new world, forums of like-minded people, discovered marketplaces of products and goods and rare parts, that were not available to purchase locally.

I found several forums I really enjoyed (mostly based in America) and made a large number of new friends worldwide - some of whom actually visited me here in West Oz.

I helped out lots of people with technical and engineering and purchasing problems, and got a lot of thanks in return.

Then one day, after about 10 years, I started to realise I was getting burnt out and costing myself money, by being on forums, offering valuable advice and knowledge, for little monetary return.
I found that numerous people were taking advantage of my knowledge and utilising it to make money for themselves.

As a result, I started to retreat from the forums and stopped posting and reading regularly.

What we did discover as regards forums, was that constant and tight moderation is necessary to keep up the level of discourse to an acceptable standard, and to rapidly delete any posts that were nasty, vicious, personal attacks, or defamatory.

Offenders were warned they would be removed from the forums if their behaviour continued to be unacceptable.

There are quite a number of forum posters who have sociological problems and personality disorders, such as autism, and related disorders such as Aspergers Syndrome.

These people seem to love anything IT, and they can be quite brilliant, but be very difficult to manage on forums, behaviour-wise.

They are generally the ones driving people away from poorly-moderated forums, with their pervasive self-interest, "me-me-me" behaviour, attention-seeking, and disruptive and uncivil behaviour in their postings.

They seem to delight in "baiting" people, and getting a sharp reaction.

Then there are other posters who have comprehension and reading difficulties, and these people often misread posts and take offence when none was intended.

But the basic problem is, in face-to-face contact, we place a lot of emphasis on facial expressions, tone of voice, stance, and other behavioural cues.

On the internet, all these things are non-existent, and the lack of them makes for difficulty in understanding others, who can also be obtuse, or cryptic in their forum expression.

It pays to proof-read thoroughly, everything you plan to post, and make sure it is readable and understandable. It also pays not to put up postings when you are very tired, or have imbibed "a few"!

Often, what you have posted, looks completely different to what you planned to post, a day later!

But the bottom line today is, there is a vast amount of information readily available on the 'net - which was not available, when forums were really in full swing in the early 2000's.

This readily-available information is what helps kill forums, as people no longer join, or go to a forum, to seek information, as they did 15-20 years ago.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 07:17

Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 07:17
There are also people posting who've had too much to drink. You can't tell they're slur typing their words.

Another thing that is killing forums is the build up of knowledge that is already in the forum that only needs to be read and not asked about. Then you get the annoying posts saying "use the search function and stop asking questions". This puts people off and stifles conversation. Facebook is more about what is happening now, posting a picture of where I am now with some sort of caption in a live time frame. In effect, forums are mostly used for asking for information that can be slow in coming, while Facebook tends to be about giving unsolicited information that perhaps draws an almost instant response. Forums can be similar in that people can post interesting pictures and videos of where they've been and that's great, but the timeframe is not instant so the content is not as active, there's a lag time that slows the overall discourse.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 07:38

Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 07:38
One thing I like about FB is the ease with which you can find info (if the group supports it).
For example, ‘how to wire a brake controller into a (insert vehicle name). Look in the files section - people upload stuff like PDFs, DOCs, excel spreadsheets etc on all sorts of ‘how to’s’ pertinent to the page. Much easier than doing a forum search and having to wade through a lot of chaff (and often unhelpful posts like “use the search function!”...
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Reply By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 18:12

Saturday, Aug 31, 2019 at 18:12
I don’t do Facebook and have no interest in it. Whilst I agree it has had an impact on forums in general I don’t think some members here do the forum any favours in attracting new members.
You only have to look at some of the responses to posts to see why people choose not to participate here.
A good example was a recent new member asking how to get a nicer note from his exhaust and he got shot down by grumpy old farts as to why he doesn’t need it. That type of behaviour isn’t going to encourage new members or participation from others.

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Reply By: Member - 2208mate - Sunday, Sep 01, 2019 at 11:16

Sunday, Sep 01, 2019 at 11:16
Facebook versus Forums(old style), folks who are not erudite may be able to contribute more via Facebook groups
1000 word blogs V quick 'pictorial heavy' posts that any body with a phone can do in 5 mins.
New tech v old tech..
Film v digital imaging...
Computers v the the 'phone'..
Progress v stagnation...
Embedded adds, pretty much the same everywhere!

That's the way of life.

This forum lives to support the mapping element. IMO and that's certainly a good reason although I imagine that could also be incorporated in a Facebook style page.

Finally, 'Nothing stays the same for ever!'
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Monday, Sep 02, 2019 at 08:06

Monday, Sep 02, 2019 at 08:06
Your response is spot on. These days people want to see a couple of photos and brief description and the technology supports this.

In contrast, people don’t appear to have either the time or inclination to read a blog.

Personally one thing that has always attracted me to EO is the blog section, both as a contributor and reader of other peoples travel related stories. These days there are very few blogs being contributed on EO, reflecting the sentiment you describe, and perhaps, in part because it is cumbersome and ‘clunky’ to use.

And perhaps that reflects the direction of EO and the Traveller App - that is where the focus appears to lie...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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