Uluru Climb Closes Today

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Yeah, with less fuss than Uluru thanks Stephen. Roz did it!

National parks will be pleased about the closure, another little feather in their tiny hat! Michael

Hi Michael

It’s not just Ayers Rock....

Here in South Australia they are trying to ban the climbing of St Mary Peak in the Flinders and the Sacred Canyon site will be closed to the general public, with the only access through a paid guide.

Stephen, just to provide a little balance. 2 generations ago there was very little people traffic up Uluru, now it is swarming with humans all doing their little bit of damage even if many are careful not to and others don't give a damn.

It is the same as property owners that have locked their gates because of damage to infrastructure, stock and littering.

So how much of Australia, are people locked out of by white fellas.

Hi Stephen, Once the St Mary's Peak climbing ban is in force, the next part of the wedge will be the name change, its a definite! Regards Michael.

Hi Eagle

Just to let you know some facts that I have posted before, and you may not be aware of.

An old man living here in Clare where I live was once a Park Ranger in the Northern Territory for many, many years.

He was based at Ayers Rock when it was first made a national park and witnessed many true, full blood aboriginals coming in from the desert and making first contact with white man.

Even back then it was a point with the ranges for the climbing of Ayers Rock, and when asking the full bloods of their issues with the climbing, they would reply that if white man is silly enough and wants to put put all his energy into climbing it, they had no issues.

Yes there were a number of places that were sacred to them around the base of the Rock, but nothing at the top.

Even in the early 1970’s when I first visited Ayers Rock, we went on a couple of guided walks with Ranges and Elders and were shown many of their Dreaming Story sites and other interesting places. Over the years we have been back many times, and slowly places that we once visited, with Aboriginal guides are now closed, as they are so called sacred sites and in in 2 generation of Aboriginal people, it has gone from climb if you like to now closed and sacred.


Cheers



Stephen

Stephen, I don't doubt for one minute what you say is correct but you may have missed my meaning.

Like Venice, Uluru is getting loved to death and they have closed the climb.

My slide on things is this. If a property owner or lease holder closes his gates or has never opened them no one has anything to say about it. But if the traditional owners do the same everyone comments.

Now the traditional owners have not closed the rock just the climb and their lands are mostly accessible to all even though permits can be a problem at times.

Mt Conner is not accessible as the property owner has closed gates. People don't say anything about that I notice.

As i was told when working at argyle, the aboriginals never claimed to OWN the land, they were custodians. As the recorded message says every time the plane lands at the mine.....traditional custodians, never heard the term traditional owners till recently.

Qld, you are correct and they always refer to land as country not my country.

"Now the traditional owners have not closed the rock just the climb and their lands are mostly accessible to all even though permits can be a problem at times."

As a 5th generation South Australian, I can not get a permit to enter or drive on the roads in a significant proportion of the State that I live in, but I do contribute to the maintenance of the roads there.
I can get a permit to enter "private" pastoral land and that right is legislated.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

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"Own" or "custodians". It is simply semantics. Do any of us who have a "Title" to our properties actually "own" it. If a "Higher Power" (read Government) choose to take over the property they can do so. (Don't believe Darryl Kerrigan's win in "The Castle"). You may even argue that if you are only a 'custodian' you would not be required to pay land taxes etc as you would as an 'owner'...... but that would be foolish, wouldn't it? Certainly, tribal Aboriginals of past considered certain territories to be their own and strongly controlled who could enter or transit. This seems rather like "territorial ownership" to me.

As for "Country" and "My Country". Clearly "Country" means My Country. They don't mean someone else's Country, do they? Semantics again. Aboriginal expression does not always closely follow the European expression. In fact it usually does not even come close.

In fact, "ownership" resides with whosoever has the power to enforce such, and in Australia it currently resides with the European or white population. It was enforced in 1788 even though it was treated as a 'colony of settlement' on the basis of 'terra nullius'..... the land belonging to no-one. The action was forcibly supported by the gun and was in reality an act of invasion as has been the case with many countries in history. To pretend otherwise is deceptive.

Having taken possession, our government in recent times has chosen to grant "Title" to some areas to nominated groups of Aboriginal Communities who are then able to control access to those lands. This is a form of apartheid which may or may not be ultimately satisfactory to those Aboriginal occupants. It certainly it not entirely acceptable to some white citizens. Whether this course of action is lastingly successful in harmonious occupation of the nation remains to be seen. Historically, invasive occupation eventually evolved into acceptance of the stronger group and assimilation prevailed. Maybe that may happen in Australia..... I just hope it does not take another 40,000 years!

Apartheid ??? I know whites have tied up much more of Australia than Aboriginals.

Pastoral, Mining, Urban sprawl, Military areas and it goes on. All they have done is stopped people from accessing the top of a hill.

How about getting access to the Mt Conner and we could all climb that hill.

It wont Allan, the muslims will control it in 2 generations.

I am prepared to take bets , 6-12 months and 'brochures' will be printed for escorted / guided climbs of the rock , mega $$$ of course and the word 'exclusive' will be included ...NOTHING is as SACRED as the almighty $$$$$......we now already have the 'traditional' owners calling for climbing bans of the GlassHouse mountains on the Sunshine Coast [ Qld ] ...all of a sudden they have become 'sacred' ........Mt. Everest is 'sacred' to the Sherpa and Nepalese yet $$$$$$ make it 'alright ' .... the $$$$ will prevail .......

Alloy, the beauty of Everest is can claim the highest peak in the world and at the same time the highest rubbish tip in the world. Lol.

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No need for a haircut permit. Done "in-house". lol

And it does remain to be seen how the closure affects Uluru tourist numbers.
My bet is that it will be little. Time will tell.

Read somewhere else that only ~10% of tourists climb it and I am sure most of those would still have turned up even if it was closed - so don't expect a big change, if any. Lots of tourist attractions are "unclimbable" but still draw a crowd.

Cheers
Greg

If I claim Aboriginal descent ( remember your not allowed to ask me to prove it ) can I then climb the rock ?

But Mt Augustus is bigger and there's no problems there so far

Mt Meharry is bigger than Mt Augustus and Mt Augustus is bigger than Uluru however neither are Monoliths like Uluru. I also understand that Kata Tjuta is also taller than Uluru.

My father climbed Mt Olga in 1956.


Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

I might add that he also climbed Uluru at that time. There was no chain, but climbing Uluru was easier than climbing Mt Olga because Mt Olga is a conglomerate and rocks were likely to come adrift as you stood on them resulting in both danger and damage which is why climbing was banned many years ago.
He climbed Uluru before dawn and watched the sunrise from the top. He took a pic that showed the shadow of Uluru going above the horizon. Wish I could find it.
The legendary Bill Harney, the Park's first Ranger, was there at the time although other info suggests that he was not appointed until 1957, so I am a bit confused on that point.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

I think the tourism to the rock will be the same but instead of staying a certain number of days, maybe most will stay a day less. Turn up in the afternoon and see the sun set, walk the base of the rock the next and head off the following day. Janet and myself like to keep moving if there is not much happening or things to do. We have been to Ayres Rock twice and didn't feel the need to climb even though we have always been fairly fit. Last year we went to Darwin and we didn't consider going to Ayres Rock on the way past, we would rather see something we haven't seen before. Regardless of the climb closure, its still a magical place to visit and I hope people from home and abroad still keep coming. Michael

Mt Augustus is indeed majestic. Geologically speaking it is a monocline not a monolith.

Great spot to visit. It is so large it looks like a mountain range on its own. It is proclaimed as the largest rock in the world by locals.

Road around the base is 55km with quite a few interesting smaller walks and climbs around the 'hill'.

Won't be 'free' for long ......

"Mount Augustus is the largest monolith in the world."

Not according to the WA Parks and Wildlife Service:

"Because Mount Augustus is composed of multiple rock types it is inaccurate to call it a monolith – meaning one rock type – or claim that it is the ‘world’s biggest rock’."

Mt Augustus Nat'l Park web page

Michael, I believe that the name “Yarra” is an indigenous word.

Macca.

Hi Macca, that is partly correct. Apparently when the river was named in the early 1800s, the local Aboriginals were asked what the river was called. The said Yurra and that was thought to sound like Yarra. So it was not 100 correct but being named for almost 200 years, you would think that's good enough. Obviously some little bearded, pointy faced weasel in a three metre square government office somewhere, thought he should take it upon himself fix the "issue" and hell to our own 250 year history! Michael

...Thinking out aloud, a 250 year history sounds like a nano-second in a country inhabitated by an indigenous people for 40,000 years plus.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

Baz , a history of 40,000 years ? A stone age family /tribal culture of 720 different 'tribes' with 700 different language speech patterns with no written language or even hieroglyphics constantly at war with each other , no sense of 'ownership' being a collective yet NOW we are the 'bad ' guys ? ......You do know don't you that even 'dot painting ' did not exist until shown by 'whites' an easy way to paint 'pretty' pictures ....

I think anyone climbing it once the chains are removed (they are starting doing that Sunday I heard on tv news) will be very surprised how steep the climb is, and being how slippery the surface was last year when I climbed it, i reckon it'll be a scary experience with nothing to hold onto on that first steep section of the climb. Once you scale that first main chain section to the small flat area above the steep bit there's that short chain bit you pull yourself up, getting up there with no chain would be interesting also. Not saying it can't be done, but definately would be more dangerous to do with no chains in place.

Below are a few pics from my climb last year......

No Chain or Painted Line.
April 1964 it was when myself and three mates camped in a tent at the bottom of Ayres Rock less than 100 meters from the spot where you could start to climb it. ( It didn`t matter where you camped and there was no charge for anything that I can recall.)
A ranger dropped in that first evening and we had a very enjoyable and lengthy talk about many things, I remember his advice to wear a long sleeve shirt, long trousers, thick socks and desert boots or similar and a hat. He said that the thick socks and desert boots were to prevent the skin being rubbed off the tops of your toes when coming down. He also advised starting the climb as early as possible .
He asked us not to go into the caves on the Eastern side as this was a sacred area to the local Aboriginal people, although I can`t recall seeing any until we got to Alice Springs.
There was no chain or any painted line to follow, only a slightly smoother trail on the surface, at the top there was post with a piece of ply wood about two foot square attached, also a large pencil probably ten inches long and three quarters if an inch diameter for writing ones name on the board.

How things change ay.

Scrubby

We climbed in 1967.




And again in 1970 and again in 1974....

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Yes Scrubby how things change....I first climbed the rock about 20 years ago and don’t recall the rock being slippery back then like it was when we climbed it last year, it would appear all the climbers over the years have worn the rocks surface much smoother then I recall it used to be.

Stephen, I read only yesterday, the fine is going to be $6,600. I thought it may have been a misprint, so who knows! Michael.

Hi Michael

Yes when they first posted it, they said it was the $600 fine, yet when I looked again last night, it was over $6000

Good money spinner.....lol

The fines will vary depending on what EPBC Regulations the person has breached and or infringed, EG: walking off track, proceeding passed a prohibited area sign, or both etc.

However, if the person doesn't pay the fine and are prosecuted, the fines could be as high as $10,000.

A ranger under the EPBC Act, can either give an on the spot fine or recommend further action depending on the circumstances. Where as a Warden has much higher powers, EG: search and seize etc.

A Warden or Ranger can also take the educational approach in minor breaches with a ranger providing information and a warning, both can ask for identification and both can give a direction. Failing to give ID and or heed a direction is also a breach of the act.

Whatever the fines are it will not matter 1 iota , give it 6-12 months and as long as you pay a substantial fee for the guided climbing tour you will be able to climb ..... 'Sacred' ? The $$$$$$ is sacred .......

In May 2008, the fine ("penalty") was $5,500.

Let them run it then. What are National Parks doing there? Michael

It's called joint management.

I'm a white fella working in joint management, doing what ever I can to enable traditional owners to take control of their land.

And I'm proud of it.

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Michael,

"National Parks" are there doing a good job of running the park as are the operators of Ayers Rock Resort and associated businesses.
Without their expertise and business acumen it would be a pretty basic show.

Steve, No one would disagree with that. Michael

Its so sad really -you would think that in this day and age their would be tolerance for the views of those that to wish to climb it.

Robin. Its so sad really -you would think that in this day and age their would be tolerance for the views of those that to wish you not to climb it.

Only in recent times has it been questionable to climb the rock. Previously Elders endorsed it, saw no problem with it, but recent generations have been taught by activists to prevent any actions they suddenly feel somehow lessens their importance.

Watch , soon , very soon the brochures will be printed and distributed "For fully escorted and guided climbs ofthe rock " ....... There are $$$$$$ to be made and they will be ....Mt. Everest is 'Sacred' to the Nepalese and the native Sherpa ....... $$$$$$ lets you climb it .....

Pic of elders on Uluru, published in National Geographic Magazine, Feb. 1988.



Uluru was in existence long before any humans lived on Australia. So does any group have more right than another to control use of it? Just a thought.

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Very clever Gerard. Perhaps you should accredit the source.

No wheels invented in Australia either. Each person identifying as Aboriginal is supported, by the taxpayer, to the tune of around$50,000 each year. No wonder some look quite pale. The paler skin identifiers are mostly the problem as they have the most to lose.

“...In Australia???”

Didn’t waste their time building stuff that’s crumbling and decaying today, remnants of another era.

In Australia our indigenous people spent their time camping, hunting, fishing, snoozing under a tree in the middle of the day, and having a good laugh around a camp fire at night.

Hell, wait on, sounds like the lifestyle many of the people on ExplorOz dream off...!

Maybe we aren’t that dissimilar.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

Hanging out with naked women is another plus I suppose?

"Hell, wait on, sounds like the lifestyle many of the people on ExplorOz dream off."
Yes, but only for 4 weeks of the year. If your lucky. :)
Dave.

Most of the crevices below accessible areas are littered with iPads, cameras, hats, money, jewellery and the occasional human body etc. Perhaps that is the reason for the closure.

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Hi Gerard,

I'm with you..... at least, I think I am.

Interesting that "Pyramids, Colosseum, Parthenon, Irrigation Canals, Sun Temples etc etc" are quoted apparently as desirable achievements, yet all those cultures lasted only a relatively short time and have now vanished. Yet the 'Australian' Aboriginal race has existed for 40,000 years quite stably until we Europeans came along and stuffed it all up for them. Arguably, we owe them and we have not been smart enough in 200 years to sort it out.

Gerard
Interesting read for you
"Dark Emu"
By Bruce Pascoe
You will be enlightened

None of the others could invent a boomerang.....

Aboriginal inventions

Sorry Michael H9 , but Boomerangs were also used in Ancient Egypt and have been found in various tombs -burial mounds from different peoples - cultures world wide ....... 'whats a boomerang that does not come back ' A STICK.

Those Egyptian ones were left as gifts by the aboriginals as they migrated through from Africa on their way to paradise. They left a few in India and Papua too.

"...yet all those cultures lasted only a relatively short time and have now vanished."

Inventions of the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans are the foundation of modern society and technology. And all that happened in just a few thousand years.

Also, last time I checked, Egypt, Greece, and Rome all still exist, they certainly haven't vanished.

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Candace,

The ancient cultures that created the "Pyramids, Colosseum, Parthenon, Irrigation Canals, Sun Temples" no longer exist and in fact prevailed for only a short time compared to the Aboriginal nation's stable 40,000 years.

Furthermore, although your "Egypt, Greece, and Rome" may still exist as geographic countries, the societies that created the "Pyramids etc." have long since disappeared. Check again!

You are just playing with words seemingly to refute my above assertion.

Alan B , dare you to tell an Egyptian or Greek or an Italian that they and their culture no longer exists , yes they have evolved to be part of the 21st century in many aspects but have traditions that can in fact be documented , unlike ours who swap and change as soon as a $$$$$ is involved , even their own 'dreamtime' stories get changed as soon as a $ is mentioned ... all of a sudden the Glasshouse Mountains have become in the last week 'sacred' .......Why is that ??

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Alloy,

I did NOT say "they and their cultures no longer exist. I said that "The ANCIENT cultures that created the Pyramids etc. no longer exist". That's very different and you also are distorting my words to make a cheap point. Cut it out!

As for the Glass House Mountains..... maybe because "ours" ( they are called Aboriginals) just have got around to it?
After all, when you've just done 40,000 years, what's another year or two?

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Gerard,
Either name, Uluru or Ayers Rock may be used.
This link may clarify it for you.

Hi Allan

It's actually a Facebook link to the 30 anniversary version of the song Solid Rock by Goanna.


Perhaps it would help if People who post links actually said it was a link and where it led. To me it looked like a EO places link.

Cheers

Anthony

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Yes, thanks Anthony.
I didn't even try Gerard's link. I thought it was a correction to RMD's use of the word "Ayers Rock" in the post immediately above. This is what comes from terse expressions!

The official gazetted name of the Rock is not Uluru or Ayers Rock, but is Uluru/Ayers Rock so that is now its official name.

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It is gazetted as a 'dual name'. It is not "Uluru Ayers Rock" as one name. (with or without the slash)
Either "Uluru" or "Ayers Rock" may bee used. (until they change it yet again! lol)

Why don't we have it conform to the other tourist attraction names and call it The Big Rock, as in the Big Pineapple/ Lobster/ Guitar/ Wombat etc etc etc.
Dave.