Get your electric Landcruiser 79 series here

Submitted: Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 15:07
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Well, S.A. is taking the lead, and one company there is now offering a 79 series Landcruiser with a full electric option. The range is 350kms - but the bad news is, they cost $200,000.

I'm guessing they will sell quite a few to mining companies with decline shaft underground mining operations, where they will be ideal.

No doubt the product and pricing will improve with more development and increased sales, so here's hoping they gain traction (literally) with their product.

Electric Landcruiser conversion launched

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 16:17

Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 16:17
"and will sell for less than AUD$200,000."
I'll have 2 thanks Ron. One on charge while the other is being used. :)
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Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 18:22

Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 18:22
The ideal setup would be with two, one on the trailer
or A bar with the Jay Weatherill performance solar panels charging it and the tow vehicle ready to change position soon. Perhaps Bill S can give an 8 min charge if they stop for coffee. If the distance isn't reliably 350 km they will be true Off Road vehicles.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 18:23

Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 18:23
All they would require is 1 vehicle with roll in roll battery packs, one pack working and one pack charging or on standby.

Large underground mining companies would no doubt welcome any diesel emissions below the surface, now all they will have to do is get their haul trucks and loaders made electric, at the moment that would be a big task, but never say it can't be done.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 19:13

Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 19:13
9900Eagle - Well there have been plenty of haul trucks and loaders that are diesel-electric - and in South Africa, they have electric trolley trucks, operating the same as the old electric trolley buses.

But developing a fully battery-powered electric truck or loader would be quite feasible, I would think, as they are not constrained by weight too much.

It's interesting to see the other article next to the electric Landcruiser article, about the two Chinese scientists from the University of Adelaide, who have patented, and are going to commercially develop, a Zinc-Manganese rechargeable battery, which promises to provide excellent energy density at exceptionally low cost - about 1/5th the cost of a lead-acid battery.

New battery could slash the cost of electric power

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Members - Bow & Nan - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 07:12

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 07:12
We stopped using battery powered vehicles underground back in the 1970, they were useless.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 18:06

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 18:06
Mate 1970's, that is 50 years ago, things might have just changed a tad between then and now.

No one including me, would have ever believed back then, that we would have driverless trucks, driverless trains and tele remote loading of trucks.

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Follow Up By: Members - Bow & Nan - Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 07:50

Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 07:50
Still the same problems

One flash and you blow up the mine.
How do you get a vehicle with a flat battery back to the charging bay.
Lost production time returning to the charging bay to charge or replace the battery.
Labour costs in the charging bay.
High cost of setting up a charging bay and relocating it as the production area moves forward .
High maintenance cost of the charging bay.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Nov 13, 2019 at 04:46

Wednesday, Nov 13, 2019 at 04:46
Mate, guess you must be talking about a coal mine with the flash and boom analogy, but there are a lot of non coal mines out there.

As for costs, I couldn't see how moving a electric charging bay would cost anything like moving a diesel refuelling bay. Unless you just mean a simple diesel fuel tank. What about the carting of the fuel from the surface to the distribution point, I imagine that slows production.

Cost wise would just be the supply of electricity to a new point and I imagine the battery system would be transportable.

If we are only talking about Landcruiser electric service vehicles the batteries would be changed over at the end of a shift, same as the refuelling of a diesel vehicle. One thing is the diesel vehicle would only have to be refuelled less often.

With new battery technology, they may get the charging down from hours to minutes and seeing the hand over time between crews would be around an hour, charging would be complete.

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Reply By: Member - rocco2010 - Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 19:21

Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 19:21
I guess we can all make jokes but seriously, our ability to easily access new vehicles powered by internal combustion engines in the future will depend on decisions made in boardrooms in Asia and Europe.

The heat is already on diesel cars in many cities in Europe. Didn’t they used to say diesel was way of future because it was less polluting than petrol?

I am of an age where it probably won’t be an issue for me but my grandchildren will almost certainly be looking at a different market in a decade or two.

Remember all those horse owners who looked at early motor cars and said “that idea will never catch on”.

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Reply By: Bushranger1 - Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 21:46

Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 at 21:46
G'day Ron,
I find it interesting that electric vehicles are marketed as "zero emissions".
Not when they are being charged unless you use green energy.
Interestingly I was reading a Stihl catalogue advertising the new battery range of power tools as "zero emissions". Next to this statment was the * symbol.
So reading down the bottom of the page it stated next to the asterisk "when in use".
A few years ago I was involved in quality control of an electric vehicle & one of the engineers said if you did an energy audit from birth till death of electric vehicles they don't stack up any better than a modern efficient combustion engine vehicle.
Of course I understand the advantage of an electric vehicle in a confined space.

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 01:20

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 01:20
Stu - Yes, we are still a long way from reaching the point where electric vehicles can compete on an even footing with fossil-fuel vehicles.

The major sticking point at present is simply the energy density of petrol or diesel is still in the order of 12 to 15 times the energy density of the best Li-ion battery currently available.

There are many factors to be taken into the total equation.

As regards drivetrains, fossil fuel vehicles carry a weight and maintenance/replacement cost in their drivetrains, that electric vehicles do not carry.
In EV's there are no gearboxes or diffs to blow up, simple wheel motors can get the power to the ground.

Electric motors only draw on the power required for any particular speed, and draw down virtually no power when decelerating, when fossil-fuel vehicles are still running, and consuming some fuel.

An internal combustion engine produces very substantial amounts of heat, which is wasted energy.
An electric motor is more efficient and has less loss via heat output.

IC engines today seem to last longer than previous decades - but they can generate very expensive repairs if components such as fuel injection pumps and injectors fail.
An electric motor has a long lifespan and has very few moving parts. Its life is really dependent on the life of the electrical insulation in it.

Idling is a notorious way to consume a lot of wasted fuel - but electric motors don't need to idle.
EV's are easy on the brakes, because they utilise regenerative braking.

Battery life is yet to be fully quantified, but I hear and read about how Prius batteries are usually still good after 7 or 8 years.
Battery cost has to come down substantially yet, before EV's really can provide a viable purchase option for the man/woman in the street.

I personally feel that EV's will take over as city vehicles, because of the short distance runs and the availability of charging points.
But I think it may be quite a while before we see a fully viable 4WD EV, capable of travelling long distances without fear of running out of charge.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 08:20

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 08:20
G'day Ron,
Some good points there & they all need consideration by anyone considering an electric vehicle rather than listening to the advertising hype.
Can't see me ever getting out in the forest with a battery chainsaw . There is just something about putting on earmuffs & having the scream of a 2 stroke engine in the morning & of course listening to the language when your mates saw wont start!
Like you mentioned also there is a lot more energy in a can of fuel being carried around than a backpack full of batteries in that situation.

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Reply By: cruiser 3 - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 07:45

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 07:45
When they put an electric motor in a Ferrari and it outperforms the current model at the same price then maybe I will be convinced, but I feel there will always be a place for high performance petrol engines. I think diesel is going to loose popularity in cars, personally I drive a 5.7 litre petrol V8 so maybe I am one eyed.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:01

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:01
Cruiser 3 - Well, the Tesla boasts 900HP, and if you've ever been blown off at the lights by one (as I have), their acceleration is nothing short of jet-like.

And now you can buy the all-electric Porsche, with 750HP, which should be enough power for anyone.
After all, some of the biggest diesel prime movers hauling 120 tonnes or more, are still only 600-700HP.

But as you say, the pricing is going to be the big factor. Only the well-heeled can afford electric cars now, but there's little doubt that will change.

One things for sure - the car manufacturers with IC drivetrains are looking at some serious losses in tooling investment, and parts income in the coming decades, and a few have already publically acknowledged that EV's will become the major force in the car market in the future, and are arranging their plans accordingly.

Cheers, Ron.

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:23

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:23
All I know is that our new hybrid Corolla absolutely 'flies' , 4lt per hundred km , picks up speed quicker than any other vehicle we have ever owned [ including motor cycles ].... first long trip ,3500km , $196 of standard unleaded , FJ Cruiser same trip $720 ...... comfort levels ? Just about even , slight bias towards the seats in the Corolla.... Corolla wins easily for lack of wind/vehicle noise ......No its not a 4X4 but do we all need 4X4 all the time to transverse the country ? NO .....
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 12:10

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 12:10
Not saying there is anything wrong with a hybrid but that is a VERY different vehicle than an all electric one.
Hybrid are best used in town where the regenerative braking puts charge back into the system.

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Follow Up By: Tomdej - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 16:15

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 16:15
We have a hybrid RAV4 and driving on the highway it utilises the hybrid system regulalrly. It is definitely not just for around town. The battery gets recharged not only when braking but also when going downhill, no matter how slight.
The resulting fuel consumption is amazingly good.

I expect our next 4WD to be a hybrid.....
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 19:24

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 19:24
But why didn't Toyota make their hybrids, plug in hybrids? That way the petrol engine would rarely have to be used particularly if just traveling around town.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 20:02

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 20:02
Bushranger , fully electric does in no way yet give the range and recharging is a 'wait awhile' , the hybrid Corolla .... over 800km between refuelling , H/way and city combined .... Longreach to Roma = 34 lt fully electric is yet able to do that , PLUS plugging in also costs not only for the power but TIME.......
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 20:50

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 20:50
Not a fan of electric vehicles at all. They are overpriced, NOT zero emissions when charging & as you point out not suitable for going long distances without a recharge.

My opinion is that a Hybrid is just an interim until battery technology & price will make electric more viable. I think Hybrids fill a need for now but the complex dual systems need an expert to repair them. Nothing wrong with a hybrid for those that drive them like yourself.

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 08:14

Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 08:14
The Corolla hybrid is in fact only $1500 more to buy [ depending on dealer ] and the battery is now 'pro-rata' warranted for 10 years ....That $1500 will already be 'recouped ' - saved in our case before Xmas having picked up the car in August ... And Bushranger , nowadays an 'expert' is required for just about any new vehicle , a new diesel needs a computer to run , just as a new whatever brand of petrol vehicle's systems are , not like days of old plugs and points / magneto ....
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 21:14

Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 21:14
Rimac V LaFerrari

One thing electric cars have is instant acceleration. There's plenty of similar drag videos between petrol and electric speed machines around. Daughter's partner loves showing them to me for some reason.
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Wednesday, Nov 13, 2019 at 17:09

Wednesday, Nov 13, 2019 at 17:09
My two bobs worth... mate.. google Tesla Dual cab.. be here in a few months.. around the $70k mark... that’s all I’m saying.... been roasted on FB for saying to much... when you read into it all, I wouldn’t be throwing coin at a new ride just yet..
Some people want it to happen, some people wish it could happen, others make it happen!

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Reply By: Zippo - Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 12:44

Monday, Nov 11, 2019 at 12:44
Oil leaks gone forever! About time. Although that's a novel way to address them.

Seriously though, range in a real 4x4 is an issue. If it's 1000km between refuels, an auxiliary tank or a pile of jerries will see all the liquid-fossil vehicles comfortable. But the Simpson in an all-electric would be a challenge unless you were prepared to sit it out waiting for a solar recharge every couple of hundred km.

After reviewing a Chevvy Volt first-hand a few years back and comparing to the early Toyota hybrids, it was clear that EV's are the way for urban use. Adding an electric motor to a conventional drive system is simply primitive. Motor-per-wheel all-electric-drive (*) removes the petrol engine and all the drive train, saving a massive amount of weight (and failure points, as Ron pointed out further on). It allows for sophistication in torque balancing for optimal traction as well.

(*) In the Chev approach, rather than the early "tack-on" Toyota method, they effectively put a small gen-set "in the boot" so the connection of the fossil drive was simply cabling into the power supply.
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Reply By: ElectricDiesel - Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 06:35

Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 06:35

This excites me.
I work FIFO, Adelaide to the Pilbara. I am also dual trade, Diesel Mechanic and Auto Electrician.

Electric is the way of future vehicles. The batteries they are constantly developing is nothing short of amazing. Solar panels are being advanced that quickly they are obsolete by the time they hit the market.

I can only speculate that the electric Landcruiser could potentially go further than estimated 350kms. This would depend on the inclines and driver use/abuse. The longevity of such a system in especially an underground setting interests me, the vehicles typically do not last long due to the environment and abuse they are subject to.
Currently HV's and EV's batteries are on average lasting more than 10 years. A typical underground vehicle barely lasts half this time. If the electrical components can be reused or reconditioned this will assist in cutting long term costs.

Yes at $200K these are pricey, however it is starting in a $100K vehicle. So how far does $100K get you in fuel, oils, filters, parts etc. Even if you were to maintain the vehicle yourself it doesn't spread that far.

HV/EV vehicles are hardly "zero" emission. Take into account the manufacturing process of not only the vehicle and it's components but any source used for charging the vehicle.

As with anything there are always pro's and con's.
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Reply By: Trevor - Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 12:34

Tuesday, Nov 12, 2019 at 12:34
I think that batteries are an interim technology until fuel cells come on line. Ammonia and methanol (made using hydrogen as their main ingrediencies) are used as the fuels. Both of these compounds can be easily transported the same a the current petrol/diesel.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Nov 17, 2019 at 14:47

Sunday, Nov 17, 2019 at 14:47
Trevor - TransPerth tried the cutting-edge, Canadian, Ballard hydrogen fuel cell buses, back about 2009/2010, but when the figures came out, they were not economic for the long term.

It was certainly interesting seeing how quiet they were, and seeing them emit just a whiff of steam.

But Ballard are still plugging along, with their "8th Generation" fuel cell now in production - and they claim an order of 1000 fuel cell buses for use in Europe.

However, Ballard are only surviving because the Chinese have poured buckets of money into them, and perhaps the Chinese market might be their saviour - as the Chinese are determined to get rid of fossil-fuel vehicles.

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: Batt's - Sunday, Nov 17, 2019 at 15:55

Sunday, Nov 17, 2019 at 15:55
You can buy a Rivian for around half the price of the cruiser which has optional larger battery packs for more range, They would be able to carry loads better than the dual cab cruiser because of the rear axle position which is useless on the Toyo.
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