Should you delete your D.P.F ?

Submitted: Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 12:41
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 14:25

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 14:25
Thanks Ivan

That was very interesting.

Seasons Greets and all the best for 2020


Stephen
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Reply By: thinkin - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 15:42

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 15:42
It's nothing more than an advert for Ultimate Diesel Tuning for custom tuning.
The guy test driving the Hilux suggests as soon you get one to do the custom tune to benefit from the fantastic power increase he was feeling. Well right away you'll stuff your warranty. The vehicle settings have been changed from manufacturers settings.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 16:43

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 16:43
This fellow is also the same idiot who stated you would need 18 100 amp hour agm batteries to do and last like one of the DCS lithium they were flogging. I didn't view the clip...as soon as I saw the blokes head I thought ..."oh no no this wanker again"...
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Follow Up By: Member - nickb "boab" - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 20:06

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 20:06
you are dead right there Bigfish ... the sign in the left hand top corner says it all .... bunch of pillocks
... LOL :)))
Cheers Nick b
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Reply By: Hoyks - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:32

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:32
The redundant 'filter' in every second sentence got to me.

We've already established a DPF is a Diesel Particulate Filter, calling it a DPF Filter is just irritating.


But the point of not bothering to remove it as it won't gain you anything and potentially cop a sizeable fine.

I saw the drama we had at work trying to convince the transport inspector that the old workshop Rodeo didn't come out of the factory with a catalytic converter and he was adamant that it should have, even when provided Holden vehicle build data to the contrary.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:09

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:09
Hoyks
Probably the same mentality who call a money dispenser, an ATM machine/machine. I regard the one from the 4WD magazine as being as credible as a vegetarian shark. Most likely why I never look at or buy 4wd mags.
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Follow Up By: That Troopy Bloke - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 21:59

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 21:59
Yeah nah, perhaps I stayed at the pub a bit too long tonight and buggered up my comprehension skills a bit, but surely if you are nitpicking, then you would be able to string a sentence together to make a little bit of sense at least. The following sentences just don't really say anything meaningful.

"But the point of not bothering to remove it as it won't gain you anything and potentially cop a sizeable fine".

"Probably the same mentality who call a money dispenser, an ATM machine/machine".



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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:17

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:17
Well done troopy bloke...hopefully your the last of the English Grammar and Spelling Police whose input is so valuable!!

Really? Why nit pick over the post. Most on here find it unnecessary and pointless. I thought we,d moved on from this sort of rubbish.
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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 22:27

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 22:27
Hi Guys,

Correct me if I am wrong, but if your vehicle came with a DPF when manufactured, & you remove or bypass it, then your vehicle is no longer roadworthy. Now that it is no longer roadworthy, your insurance is no longer valid. If you are involved in an accident of some kind, because your vehicle is no longer roadworthy, you will be charged by the Police. If the accident results in a death, you will be held responsible. Apart from all of the above, the fine for removing or bypassing the DPF is $’s per cylinder. Quite expensive if driving a V8. I also believe that similar penalties and outcomes will occur if you blank off or restrict the EGR valve.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 22:30

Thursday, Dec 26, 2019 at 22:30
All mentioned in the video
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Saturday, Jan 18, 2020 at 13:55

Saturday, Jan 18, 2020 at 13:55
If the affected part had absolutely nothing to do with the accident your insurance wont bother you. Bit like having a broken brake lens (illegal..therefore unroadworthy) and you run off the road and hit a tree! You will be covered by insurance.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Saturday, Jan 18, 2020 at 19:06

Saturday, Jan 18, 2020 at 19:06
Bigfish,

I humbly suggest you check your insurance policy. I’m pretty sure that it will state that if you vehicle is unroadworthy, therefore illegal, then they do not have to pay.

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Reply By: Rangiephil - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 10:05

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 10:05
Just ask Subaru or Toyota owners what they think of the DPF.
Toyota has been forced to add a "regeneration Button" to the Hilux, and AFAIK Prado etc due to the high numbers of DPF failures.
Land Rover has an ongoing problem with fuel dilution as their system richens the mixture to regenerate which causes diesel to dilute the oil. Owners are having to change oil far more often than required by the service schedule.
My son has a Subaru Outback diesel. A friend replaced a failed intercooler pipe and did not tighten it fully. It popped off and he drove 100Km to get home. this destroyed the DPF and it was unsalvageable. The Subaru dealer said that they sell at least one a week at $3000 plus.
AFAIK Subaru has discontinued selling Outback diesels due to the problems.
The problem is that city residents do not get the chance to get up to 100KMh for an hour very often and that is what many DPFs require.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 10:48

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 10:48
Phil, you can't really blame a manufacturer for a DPF failure, when it was caused by faulty installation of an intercooler pipe.

However, having said that - I firmly believe DPF technology is the greatest emissions control, technical and engineering failure, that has ever been foisted on long suffering diesel owners, since emission controls were invented.

DPF is on a par with the early emission controls on petrol engines of the early 1980's.
Remember the retarded timing camshafts, the air pumps, and all the other useless devices that caused maintenance to increase, power outputs to decline seriously, and fuel consumption to decrease?

It wasn't long before people were throwing all that crap in the bin, too. DPF's belong there, as well.

I'm all for cleaner exhausts, but there must be a simpler, less costly, and lower maintenance system than the current DPF technology, that would get awarded a big "FAIL", if it was ever entered in any engineering invention competition.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:11

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:11
There is an answer Ron...it will be the hybrid engine that is starting to appear more and more often...like it or lump it but this will be the future. My mate eliminated the dpf on his NS Pajero. No big job and car runs like a ripper. 200000 klms and he,s never had to lift a spanner to it apart from regular services.
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:38

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:38
Bigfish. Hope he never gets checked by the cops. EPA fines are usually very large.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:46

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 11:46
Cops wouldn't have a clue if your dpf is deleted unless they put a scan tool on or crawl under car and have a good knowledge of exactly how the dpf is turned off. No different to the many hundreds of thousands of motorists who knowingly tow over weight vans, those who have turned off the egr, those running too big a tyre, those with illegal headlights, those with illegal lift kits, those with modified exhaust..ad. nausea. Biggest cock up in motoring nowadays is the dpf. Even Toyota cant get it right!.

Everyday people make mods that are illegal. I haven't heard of one person getting done for deleting the dpf...would be interested to know the numbers.
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 12:09

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 12:09
Did you even watch the video? He said he was pulled over for an RBT and cop looked under his ute for a DPF.
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Follow Up By: axle - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 12:47

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 12:47
It was only yesterday I was showered in black smoke from a landcruiser as it must of did its burn thing when he was half way past me, SOOO, all this black crap that's let go is not polluting anything??

Can't see it myself!


Cheers &HNY

Axle.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 12:52

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 12:52
My mates dpf looks factory...also you can delete with an ecu remap very easily...Now unless a cop actually hooks up a scanner to your Obd2 port I think you will be safe..

"He said he was pulled over for an RBT and cop looked under his ute for a DPF." Sounds like bullshit to me..especially for a RBT stop. Sorry mate this bloke and the advertisers dont cut the mustard with me.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 13:16

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 13:16
Ron, speaking of air pumps - the SG Forester (03-08) used air pumps on the turbo models. For the first 90? secs (ECU timer) after starting, two valves open and the air pump feeds into the exhaust system. The whole purpose is to meet emission standards for nitrous oxides. The majority of owners bypass that entirely, but it needs an ECU "code delete" patch to avoid a permanent code/display.

The whole system is there because the stupid regulators saw % emission as the easily measured parameter, and of course that can be met by this simple "dilution" approach.
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Follow Up By: Rangiephil - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 13:52

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 13:52
Can you name one other thing on a car that if compromised by a loose clamp would cost over $3000 to replace?
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 16:18

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 16:18
Rangiephil
If an intercooler pipe came off, ie, the one he had replaced and was subject to faulty installation, the IMMEDIATE drop in power would have been very noticeable. I presume a code would also appear at the same time. Instead of rectifying the issue he drove it 100km in limp mode? He already was smart enough to replace the hose. The ECU would instantly detect the loss of boost and limit fuel injection, amount to minimal. Did the DPF get filled because of overfuelling? Was he advised to replace it or was a burn off sufficient and lower cost too. Maybe removal and cleaning may have rectified the situation. Most dealers will replace of course as they make plenty of cash from doing so. Perhaps driver error in operating the vehicle in a faulty condition is the cause.
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Follow Up By: Rob J8 - Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 21:55

Friday, Dec 27, 2019 at 21:55
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see if someone has deleted the DPF. Run your finger around the inside of the exhaust pipe; the deleted one will leave your finger black with soot.
With the DPF still connected, you will only get a faint dusting. My 18 diesel v8 cruiser has not had the DPF deleted, faint dusting. My mates 17 diesel v8 has had the DPF deleted and the exhaust is very black.
Any not so smart copper would know this. If you have heaps of dough delete. Rob J
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 07:00

Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 07:00
"Can you name one other thing on a car that if compromised by a loose clamp would cost over $3000 to replace?"

The engine?



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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:19

Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:19
"Can you name one other thing on a car that if compromised by a loose clamp would cost over $3000 to replace?"

Yes - leave a clamp loose on an intake pipe between air cleaner and engine, and in dusty conditions, you'll soon have a "dusted" engine, which will cost you a lot more than $3000 to fix.

One of the major problems with DPF's is that they are simply a vastly overpriced part for what is in them.

They contain a honeycomb formation comprised of mostly cordierite compounds, and they can't be as expensive to manufacture as the pricing is trying to make out.

They have to be a "nice lil' earner", as Arfur would say, for the manufacturers.

I can't see why there is a need to burn off the soot deposits in the DPF. Surely a simple filter device that catches the soot particles, and which filter is then simply disposed of in the normal landfill system, would do the job.

A simple centrifugal-style filter, often used by older engine manufacturers such as Deutz, to filter oil, would work on soot particles. The old air-cooled Deutz diesel, centrifugal oil filters, worked a treat.

But then again, I'm not an automotive manufacturing engineer, with instructions to design a high-maintenance device, that is easily destroyed, that provides a continuing, substantial, high-profit-level income stream, for manufacturers.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 11:09

Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 11:09
The beauty of it...it normally occurs mostly outside of warranty period!!!
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Follow Up By: mynance - Wednesday, Jan 01, 2020 at 14:11

Wednesday, Jan 01, 2020 at 14:11
I think a cop would only have to look at the exhaust tail pipe and if it was covered in soot he may put it off the road


Myles
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 18:54

Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 18:54
The DPF is designed to remove scientifically determined highly toxic particles from spewing into the atmosphere. Removing it is about the same as walking around squirting poison in stranger's faces. If you think that's fine then ok. If car manufacturers could get away without DPF's they would, but they can't at this stage.
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 21:14

Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 21:14
So pre DPF’s engines were spewing those highly toxic particles out, for how long have diesels been around?
So all previous diesel drivers have been squirting poison in stranger’s faces. we should all be dead!
I don’t think DPF’s have made the world that much safer!
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Follow Up By: thinkin - Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 22:38

Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 22:38
No DPF's here, strangers are lining up to get squirted in the face

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XRP4wY4Oo
cheers
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Dec 29, 2019 at 19:39

Sunday, Dec 29, 2019 at 19:39
You should present your scientific findings to the car industry so they can pass them on to the relevant authority and get rid of DPF's. They probably haven't thought of it. Doing so would save them millions of dollars.
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Sunday, Dec 29, 2019 at 21:50

Sunday, Dec 29, 2019 at 21:50
Hey Michael H9
You’re the one saying “scientifically determined “
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 00:03

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 00:03
That's correct, multiple scientific studies world wide have determined that diesel particulates in the exhaust contain a cocktail of class 1 carcinogens that have proven to increase cancers and lung disease in those who come in contact with them. Hence why government regulations have been introduced forcing car makers to try and filter out the poison that's spewing into the air. It's criminal to knowingly bypass this if you know you are spreading toxic substances in the process. It doesn't matter if they were spread in the past, nobody knew, but now they do. My grandmother smoked cigarettes until she died at 88. That doesn't mean cigarettes aren't bad for you. Diesel exhaust is the same situation.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 07:43

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 07:43
Michael H9,

“Spewing poison into the air” is not restricted to Diesels engine exhaust. Petrol engine exhaust contains many deadly compounds as well, Carbon Monoxide being just one.

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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 07:57

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 07:57
Carbon monoxide isn't a carcinogen. Petrol is a lighter fuel and burns more completely than diesel, much like lpg burns more completely than petrol. The danger with diesel is the particulate matter, the soot if you like. Scientific studies and analysis have determined all this, not Fred down the pub. If petrol engines were producing the same particulates then rest assured they would be required to have a filter as well, but studies have found they do not.
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:32

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:32
The regulators aren’t just aiming at carcinogenic materials , it’s about the climate changing stuff too. Therefore carbon monoxide is in amongst it I presume.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:51

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:51
Well carbon monoxide comes out of all engines, but it's carbon dioxide levels that are mainly causing the climate change problems, (allegedly), and it comes out of any petroleum based car as well. Anyway, those compounds have nothing to do with DPF's and whether we should be deleting them or not. It's a big deal, VW has been fined a motza for rigging their diesel emissions testing procedures and also got into trouble for using monkeys in experiments to test the effects of breathing diesel particulates, probably in an attempt to prove there's nothing wrong with smoking diesel fumes?
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 14:39

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 14:39
Michael,

I did not say that Carbon Monoxide was a carcinogen, merely that it was a poison that was being spewed into the air from petrol powered vehicles.

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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 15:03

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 15:03
The authorities haven't determined that carbon monoxide is deadly enough to require a filter that in turn some people might want to bypass. The thread is about DPF blocking and I was saying that if the particles are deadly enough that the authorities want them filtered out, then we shouldn't be removing the filter. It's pretty simple to understand. Having people on here saying that diesel particulates are harmless and that "I don’t think DPF’s have made the world that much safer!" doesn't fly in the face of scientific research.
Any other deadly chemicals can be the topic of another thread, perhaps climate change......that would fire up a few boilers.

If we're talking deadly, then just driving the car on the road is more dangerous than anything else.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 19:00

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 19:00
We better stop using unleaded fuel as well because it contains the carcinogens benzene, toluene, naphthalene , trimethylbenzene , methyl tert-butyl.



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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 19:50

Monday, Dec 30, 2019 at 19:50
Are you saying we shouldn't worry about DPF's because there are other carcinogens in the world? I'm trying to understand the relevance of your statement in a thread about diesel particulate filters and the dangers of diesel soot. All of those other compounds are in diesel too but aren't required to be filtered out because the same level of health concern isn't there for them.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Tuesday, Dec 31, 2019 at 17:04

Tuesday, Dec 31, 2019 at 17:04
No Micheal, not saying anything about dpf's at all, just informing on the carcinogens in unleaded fuel.

On dpf's, people are using the diesels for the wrong duty. They run around town and do short trips, truck engines that have been speced for the correct duty cycle only have to have their dpf's cleaned around 300,000 to 400,000 Klm's.



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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Tuesday, Dec 31, 2019 at 17:15

Tuesday, Dec 31, 2019 at 17:15
9900Eagle. This is the reason my Dmax has never done a burn in 18,000IKm since new
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Reply By: Jackolux - Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 23:39

Saturday, Dec 28, 2019 at 23:39
I have seen plenty of late model Diesels that have DPF's , belching black smoke , its usually because they have been tuned / remapped and are over fueled . My mates Triton is a example been remapped without deleting the DPF it now blows plenty of black smoke .

I'm over these Hi tech diesels , I bought a new petrol 4wd .
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Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Dec 29, 2019 at 15:34

Sunday, Dec 29, 2019 at 15:34
Jackolux
The belching smoke as the accelerator is pushed, clearly shows the unit has been fiddled with. Plenty of Nissans do it std though. They go ok until they stop. None of which is to do with a DPF , but having it overfuel, every time power is asked for is stupid and a dead giveaway to official observers. I think most remappers are simply folk learned enough to alter maps and who want to make a $ and have poor understanding of diesels. ie, go fast boys playing with diesel.
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Reply By: qldcamper - Thursday, Jan 02, 2020 at 09:15

Thursday, Jan 02, 2020 at 09:15
Hmmm, a lot of interesting fact/fiction points being brought up in this thread.

Who to listen to?

Has anyone giving the long drawn out relpies actually diagnosed a dpf fault, checked the operation of the flaps, sensors and injector, actually had a converter/dpf unit on the bench and dismantled it to make sure it is beyond repair before ordering a new one, cleaned one out and returned it to work following a pneumatic fault in an actuator?

Just a thought.

Anyone who has would know the sheer volume of soot would make a disposable filter impractale , it would need changing so often travelling would be impossible.

Got to love experts that have no practical experience what so ever,poseing as authorities.

Well thats my rant over, the BS just builds to critical level now and then.
AnswerID: 629293

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jan 03, 2020 at 21:56

Friday, Jan 03, 2020 at 21:56
Yep, I'm sure the owners of vehicles fitted with blocked and fault-producing DPF's would be happy to pay you your $120 hr, while you farted around all day, fault-finding and cleaning, and probably costing them around $1000, trying to fix a shonky device, that is problem-ridden from Day one.

The problem is that it's likely about half the mechanics out there, can't even diagnose or repair DPF faults.
They are "parts and component replacers", that's about all they are today.

There is no such thing as "repair" with todays high-tech vehicles, you are simply told the offending part is stuffed, and they'll order in a new one.

I buy vehicles for their simplicity, and ease of maintenance, and low cost maintenance. Vehicles fitted with DPF's don't fall into that category.
And that's the reason I don't have a vehicle with a DPF, and I'm not likely to ever buy one with one fitted.

The world is full of sucker new car buyers who want the latest technology. But in todays world, if you buy the latest technology, you're the test bed for that latest, high-tech, overly complex technology.

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