Suggestions on who to turn to.

Submitted: Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 17:27
ThreadID: 139630 Views:9257 Replies:6 FollowUps:9
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I posted here a few years ago after my navara suffered a cracked block and as it was just out of warranty on time Nissan didn’t want to know me. I wrote to fair trading and after a letter from them to Nissan they agreed to go halves. The rebuilt engine has since exploded and motor trades did an investigation and found that due to the flywheel being incorrectly fitted the conrod bolts have worked loose due to vibration. Nissan once again don’t want to know me as it was out of the 1 year warranty. Motor trades passed the case to a lawyer but apparently I need about 14 grand to book a court date. I don’t own that money! I have just written to fair trading again. I am at least 20 grand out of pocket through no fault of my own. I’m not asking for legal advice unless of coarse someone has that but just want to know if you have any suggestions who or what I could try to recover my money. It shouldn’t just be bad luck. Seems Nissan and probably all the manufacturers know the little guy has no chance so they just say go away. Not right! Thanks in advance.
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Reply By: noggins - Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:11

Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:11
Depending which state your in , in Vic you have the civil claims tribunal , used to cost about $65 when I used them for similar circumstances.
Look up here for your state
https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/other-helpful-agencies/small-claims-tribunals

Then if Nissan used engine re-builders that were not part of Nissan ( an outside auto place ) then they have their own insurance , once again if in Vic it's the VACC who cover 90% of workshops.


Ron
AnswerID: 629873

Follow Up By: Kirk L - Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:15

Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:15
Thanks mate. I’m in Q. Rebuild was outsourced and they are not there any more but still comes under Nissan banner. As I said I have contacted fair trading and will go to CCC next but wondered if there was anything else. Cheers bud.
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Reply By: RMD - Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:27

Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:27
Kirk
In approx 2015 , maybe a bit later a dealer in a large west central NSW town had 6 Navara engines pulled apart. They did that without talking to Nissan because they knew the engines had problems. ALL 6 had warped engine blocks, usually it is the aluminium alloy head, but no, engine blocks it was. Nissan of course knew of the problem and would not honour the warranty because they were not consulted before disassembly. Nice company to deal with. They avoid wherever possible knowing they can walk over their valuable customers. My suggestion is you take the time and talk to as many owners of similar vehicles and list their, rego numbers, vin numbers and the faults experienced. That way, when wrangling with dealers or the parent company you have traceable/provable issues which support your series of problems. Make the info known to others, no slander because it IS TRUE. When the dealer or company reps you deal with are alerted as to your research they do begin to take notice because negative publicity is what they cannot tolerate. Every little bit helps your cause when normal channels are ignored and dismissed. I researched 13 other vehicles same as mine regarding initial dealer servicing or rather lack of. A small issue by comparison, but certainly woke the dealer up to what their valuable customers can achieve and discover. They think they won't bother. PS. My vehicle is a different make.
AnswerID: 629874

Follow Up By: Kirk L - Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:41

Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 20:41
THANKS RMD. I have been trying to look you up but you don’t appear in members. I spoke to you the other day on fridge issue. When first engine went I looked up navara forum etc and there were cases of block problems. Nissan denied any problems then. You say you have seen many. Interesting. I feel I’m belting my head against a wall but am detirmined to win as the little man somehow. It’s not right they( Nissan) can walk all over ya. I’m very frustrated, broke and at my white end.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 08:07

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 08:07
When you are armed with factual information regarding the shortcomings and frequency of same or similar problems, the dealer and Nissan then know you know of many others. It changes the negotiating relationship dramatically when you can state actual failures and vin numbers. They cannot then ignore anymore.
You can also park the vehicle outside the dealers with
a shonky repair sign and a contact phone number. People can ring you to find out what has been done to you. It is called reverse pressure. Dealers don't appreciate the publicity and definitely tell the company it is happening. Using external repairers is a way of diverting and preventing any apportioned responsibility. Everyone can then blame everyone who touched it must no one entity is seen as responsible and all is hard to prove and pin down in a QCAT or similar hearing. Prior failures and history of it with the model become much more into focus.
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Follow Up By: Kirk L - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 09:09

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 09:09
Thanks RMD. I was just saying to workmates I should park the car out the front of the dealer with lemon written all over it. When it went the first time I got on navara forum and there were in fact a few cases of so called cracked blocks. May have been the warped block scenario mentioned. Anyway I appreciate your help and I will have to do some serious research.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 10:26

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 10:26
Although not Navara engine block related but, Nissan sold hundreds of D40 Navaras and many D22 models which had a bent chassis on RHS rear section. D22 with malformed tubs too. Made WRONG from new and dispersed by Nissan Australia throughout our land. A few here a few there so no one concentration happened in one articular area. Orchestrated deception. They knew they were malformed when imported into OZ but did not correct it, simply sold them off. Have a look at the lower RHS rear wheel clearance on some and some D2 and some D40 also shows the chassis bent by looking at the tub and rear window frame alignment. I have pics of a few showing wheel clearances side to side. At my local central Vic dealer I checked NEW vehicles, two side by side, red they were, and both had bent chassis. I recorded the VIN's too. A company who does such things and blatantly sell malformed vehicles into the community have an ethics problem. Only those who challenged the bent chassis were even talked to and most of them given the run around until they went away. Some however, checked facts, vehicles and talked to other owners to develop a database of similar faults. Only some of those were successful in tribunals because the company was successful in deceiving and denying any claim. Only when the weight of evidence was undisputable did the owner have relief. The dealer of the one I represented also performed illegal alteration of registrations and sales contracts etc etc. That is why the NSW Police then became involved. One vehicle wrongly registered was then sold as a new vehicle by shipping it to Vic where a flag of "already Previously registered" did not occur and vehicle was seen in Vic as a first reg and went through.. The Bent chassis one after reclaimed by Dealer/Nissan was shipped to Tasmania and sold there so further away from possible scrutiny. They will not lose $$$$'s under ny circumstances. You have to operate at the level they do, which is quite cunning low. That is the way they operate on a daily basis. Until you Play them at their own game you don't get far.
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Follow Up By: Kirk L - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 10:35

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 10:35
Thanks mate. Yes they are lieing cunning people. Just hope I can find a way to make them accountable. Trouble is it costs money I don’t have.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 11:43

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 11:43
Kirk - You will never get results from Nissan or the repairer by parking outside a dealer with a lemon sign on the vehicle.
However, you will get a lawyers letter from the dealer demanding you remove the vehicle and signage, because it is adversely affecting the dealers business.

The dealer will claim his operation is an independent business, without any direct ability to fix your problem, and that the problem is between you and the Nissan company. This has happened before.

Some dealers will try to get satisfaction for you by negotiating with the manufacturer, some will merely deflect your problem directly to a manufacturers customer service representative.

After the length of time since the engine rebuild was carried out, you do not have any major grounds for claims, unfortunately.
A vehicle owner can do a lot of kms in 12 months, and virtually all repairers only warranty work for 30 days.
You were lucky to get 12 mths warranty, and it's obvious you got substantially more than 12 mths use out of the repaired engine.

It is obvious your Navara has major design faults - but many Nissan owners put up with them, and many owners wear the losses associated with poor lifespan from the ZD30 engine.
Nissan will always try to say that poor maintenance and abusive operation is the major reason for poor engine life - and that hundreds of thousands of ZD30 owners are satisfied with their engines.

I have a mate who owned a 2009 Patrol ute with a ZD30, it happily did 270,000kms without a problem, before he pranged it, and it was written off.
The engine was still performing quite well, and he was very happy with it.

But the engines in the Navaras appear to either be built to a different level of quality, or the engine design in the Navara layout has major faults.
Australia is not alone with Navara engine faults, it is common in many other countries, as a Google search for "ZD30 engine failure" shows.

Under Australian Consumer Law, you are entitled to enjoy compensation if a product is "not fit for purpose". An engine that regularly blows up is "not fit for purpose".
But the problem becomes expensive to rectify when you do not get satisfaction from the manufacturer, who merely declines to recompense you.

The only course of action then, is to employ a lawyer to mount a case against the manufacturer, to try to regain your losses or some of your losses.
This is costly, a long and difficult process, and does not always end up in success for you.
However, some people have done this and won serious amounts of compensation.

Their stories are in the Australasian Legal Information Institute site - the site that records nearly every lawsuit and legal decision in Australia.

Your case is complex, because it is divided into numerous factors and incidents. One, you need to prove the engine design is faulty. Nissan will claim the engine design is not faulty if properly maintained.

Two, your engine repair was carried out by someone who was contracted by Nissan to repair it.
You need to prove that there was contributory negligence by the repairer, and that negligence has caused you loss.

The case is complicated by the fact there is a contract between the engine repairer and Nissan, and a contract between you and Nissan, when they agreed to partly fund the engine repair.
You need to have a discussion with a lawyer, and write down the relevant facts that you will need to present to mount a case against Nissan.

IMHO, I believe you have a long hard road in front of you, trying to get anything out of Nissan.
They will argue the vehicle is 8 years old, they have already partly funded one engine repair, and see no reason to fund another engine repair - particularly since considerably more than 12 months has passed, since the last repair was carried out.

Your argument will only succeed if you can prove the engine design is deficient, is prone to an unacceptable lifespan, and that the repairs carried out were deficient.
I wish you luck, you probably have a 50% chance of success.

If you want to try and mount a class action, you will need to contact a large number of Nissan ZD30 owners, seeking their support, and advertise for aggrieved Nissan ZD30 owner support, where you have not been previously able to find them.

Then you will need a law firm with the desire to proceed with a class action against Nissan, who believe they have an arguable case .

Sometimes you can get lucky and find a law firm that will take on a class action on a "no win, no fee" basis. However, be aware that these law firms will take up to 40% of any money won for fees, if they do win.

In the AustLII database is this mind-taxing discussion (link below) of "contract damages and the promisees role in its own loss".

It is a heavy reading article, full of legal jargon, and goes into discussion at great length as to what portion of loss can be attributable to a promisee caused by their own actions, as compared to the responsibility of a promisor to make good any loss.

This is the type of thing you will run up against in your fight to gain compensation - Nissans lawyers will argue you have contributed to your own losses by poor maintenance or possible adverse use of the vehicle, they will argue you have already been able to gain extensive use of the vehicle over X number of years, and that they have already contributed to previous engine repairs.

I would say the simplest claim to follow, is to try and gain some compensation from the last engine repairer, on the basis that their work involved assembly negligence.

But after more than 12 mths of engine use, and well outside the generous warranty offered, it will be difficult to claim a great deal, unless you have done very few kms in that elapsed period, since the engine was last rebuilt.

Cheers, Ron.

Contract Damages and the Promisee's Role in its Own Loss

(In the above link, you can search for each case, that is referred to in Italics, this will give the case summary and the relevant legal points raised).



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FollowupID: 905040

Follow Up By: Kirk L - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 12:44

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 12:44
Thanks once again Rob. The engine is actually the YD 25 but that’s irrevalsnt. I have a case documented by the motor trades sssocistion and the investigative work their engineers did and cane up with the incorrect fitment conclusion. I have photos of the flywheel and the dents in it from the locating dowell not being in the hole. I have s case ready to go to court but as I said they want some 14 grand to book a court date. I have written to fair trading and will try other agencies if that’s not successful. The company that rebuilt the motor has closed down so can’t go there but as far as I understand it it’s Nissan’s responsibility if they sub let work out under their name. I believe I have a solid case but it’s a small man against a huge company. Cheers.
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FollowupID: 905041

Reply By: Member - wicket - Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 22:51

Monday, Feb 03, 2020 at 22:51
Not sure if this will help but currently there are a group of toyota owners taking a class action against toyota for known faults with the hilux, perhaps if you track down the legal team doing this and see if they might go into bat for you and other owners, in cases like this they typically have a no win no charge fee.
AnswerID: 629877

Follow Up By: qldcamper - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 07:35

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 07:35
No win no charge from them maybe, but court costs are usually pegged on the loser.
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FollowupID: 905031

Reply By: Keith B2 - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 04:34

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 04:34
It might be worth having a look at the Queensland Civil and Administrative Claims Tribunal
QCAT
There is a similar body in NSW which I used several years ago to resolve a problem with the NSW Volvo marine agent after a six cylinder diesel engine blew up twice after being rebuilt.
It turned out that they had reconditioned the engine using second hand engine valves and had not cleaned the metal swarf from the previous failure from the intercooler.
You don't need a lawyer and can represent yourself. But you will need to have a good engineering report and maybe the engineer there as an expert witness. I was awarded $27K. Go for it!
Keith
AnswerID: 629879

Reply By: Sigmund - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 05:08

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 05:08
There are a lot of incompetent, shonky or bullying operators who just love the ignorance of Australian Consumer Law rife among the public.
And some lawyers have a go at exploiting it.
AnswerID: 629880

Reply By: swampy - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 12:04

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2020 at 12:04
HI
Have a look at all the CEO `s at a few of these companies . Very poor. Me myself and I mentality. Customer service on major issues is a joke . Deny deny deny is the mantra . I was knocked back because of a Ryco fuel filter .!!!!! LOL
A mate of mine was knocked back 3mths outta warranty when BT50 engine exploded . He fitted second hand engine .
AnswerID: 629884

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