Flexable <span class="highlight">Solar</span> Panels

Submitted: Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:10
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Hi Folks

Just wondering if anyone is using this brand or similar?

I have a 150w tri fold kickass panel I didn't even take bush last time we went camping. Just too heavy and bulky. The other point being, to run my camp in the tropics I need 3 or 4 times that output. Which leaves me moving around a solar panel and running a generator also, kind of pointless.

Also interested what MPPT people would recommend for around 600 watts.

One last thing, I have seen one of these panels stuck to a thin bit of ply. Light, portable etc, looked good. But what to do for legs, anyone got any photo's or idea's for this?

Thanks

Lyndon
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Reply By: qldcamper - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:43

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:43
Ask to see the specs on the label on the back. If it has no reference to output in watts or amps then be very weary, i got stitched on a couple of 100 watt panels that turned out to be barely 60 watt.
Do some research into the physical size the panel needs to be to be 200 watts.

Almost all the flexables tell porkies in their advertising. They do work, but most ase well over rated.

Have a look on a site called "product review"
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:46

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:46
Just came across this review.

I just can't believe the panel is 200w given the dimensions.....
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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 14:08

Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 14:08
Based on the fairly normal 170W/m2 of panel area I'm guessing this one is really 140W or less. Area is 0.87m2 (ignoring the non-solar panel bits around the edge - if you allow 2cm around the edge it's 0.8m2). At 170W/m2 it's either 147W or 135W.

If you want to do a quick sanity check on the claimed output I'd recommend working out the panel area in m2 and multiplying it by 170 - it will give you a rough achievable figure at standard illumination levels.

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 14:13

Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 14:13
At 147W, that's pretty close to the other rule of thumb - expect about 70% of the advertised wattage.

70% of 200 = 140W.
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 19:33

Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 19:33
I would guess that you folks are correct, panel size to output just doesn't add up. I have emailed them to ask for a photo of the data plaque of the back of the panel. They offer free shipping, so I'm tempted to buy just one first up and test it
Has anyone watched the review with the link I posted above?

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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 19:45

Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 19:45
The sticker on the back doesn't really matter - the wattage rating looks like fiction so the current/voltage ones probably will be as well.

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 22:01

Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 22:01
I don't think the seller/manufacturer is trying to rip anyone off with false claims.

The problem is the accepted standard conditions by which the watts are determined do not reflect reality. Nevertheless, they are the standard conditions that everyone uses:

1000 watts per square metre of insolation, cell temperature of 25 deg C, air mass (whatever that is) 1.5.

This link provides some technical info about a more realistic standard - NOCT. Play with the values in the calculator and you'll find that cell temperatures in realistic scenarios are way higher than 25 degC. The higher the temp, the less efficient the cells.

Panels should be rated at NOCT, but you'll be lucky to find one that is. The marketing people much prefer the currently used standard that gives the higher figure.

Given that the great majority use the higher figure, just let them play their silly game and apply the 70% rule to get a more likely specification.

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Follow Up By: RMD - Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 22:21

Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 22:21
Frank P
Of course the seller is trying to rip people off. The area and the efficiency simply cannot be true UNLESS the panels are suddenly capable of producing around 40% more efficiency than the current world best panels can produce.
Only multi layer different/multiple spectrum absorbtion can get higher than the current crop. If the panels are from the normal Asian EBay sellers they ain't gonna be flash in output but are stated well above their actual. It is roooly easy to produce rear panel sticker without names and provide very basic info but not enough to determine anything. They even have certification marks and TUV etc to further throw buyers off the scent.
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 08:01

Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 08:01
Did we watch the review guys? Link in post above
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 08:46

Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 08:46
Lyndon,
If you want to take advantage of wiring in series through a decent mppt reg you should buy 2 the same. The more evenly matched the less waste you will have.
I use a Victron 75/15 reg (75 volt max input and 15 amp max output) and it works suprisingly well in low light.

The 2 panels i have although being low on output have almost identical output specs and most i have had out is 10.3 amps from the reg so if they were actually 100 watt panels would suit the reg perfectly.
Even when it was raining last weekend was getting 1.2 amps into the system.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 09:59

Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 09:59
"Did we watch the review guys? Link in post above"

Yeah, but he didn't show any voltages while the panels were charging, just current, so you can't work out the watts. But the amperage results were surprising.

Also, the panels are SEMI flexible, emphasis on semi. I've had three brands of semi flexible panels. All three manufacturers say don't bend more than 10 degrees, you risk cracking cells and reducing performance. His bending test was pretty much abusive, indicated by the cracking sound he heard when he bent the cheap panel, yet that panel yielded the better result. Very unexpected.

Perhaps the "good" panel was damaged (silently) in the bending test. It wouldn't surprise me. But then there's the lack of tech specs on the "good" panel's label, so who knows?
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:54

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:54
G'day Lyndon,

Re stiffening the panels....

I bought some similar panels from Jaycar, but mine were 100W each, so a bit smaller. I wanted portability but also light weight for my truck and I wanted to reduce the flexing to make them easier to handle and prop up to face the sun. Also, I chose 2 x 100 w for compactness.

I got some 10mm ally U channel from Bunnings and pop rivetted that around the edges. I made the sides a bit longer so I could drill a hole at the top to take a prop. With leftover bits of channel I made a centre prop with a hook at the bottom to take the panel and a hole at the top to take a prop.

I made the props out of some 10mm round ally rod, also from Bunnings. Just bent the 90 deg at one end to insert into the holes in the U channel.

Being light, these panels tend to blow over in any sort of breeze. I have to peg them down to stabilize them. Otherwise I just use the centre prop.

Cheers






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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 18:18

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 18:18
Hi Frank

Thanks for posting those, it really is appreciated.. Think it might be just what I'm after. Any chance of a pic or two from behind?

Thanks

Lyndon
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 22:41

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 22:41
Sorry mate, no can do at the moment.

Panels and props are in the truck which is in the dealers getting a new engine. Another BT50/Ranger catastrophe. Blown a hole in #3 piston due to a faulty injector. 2 years/22k km outside factory warranty, but Mazda is covering it, thankfully. The dealer (Macarthur Mazda, Campbelltown, NSW) has been great. Mazda Australia a bit slow, but very reasonable otherwise.

Back to the panels and props ...

The centre prop just hooks under the bottom edge of the panel and the bent rod goes into the hole at the top. You can then adjust the rod so that the panel gets the right lean to max exposure to the sun.

Likewise, at the ends a bent rod goes into a hole in the top of the overlength side braces, so that, if you wanted, you could have the panel resting back on three rods. Or two if you leave out the centre prop. All depends on stability in the breeze.

It's all a bit of a pain, but weight, or rather lack of it, is my priority. And they were designed to suit my storage:



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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:55

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 15:55
Personally don't have any experience with that brand but the Sunpower Cells used in the panel have a good reputation.

You need to look at a panel closely and see how it has been constructed, are the cells all installed evenly, does the surface look uniform, no discoloration in some areas etc.

The specs state you can't put them in series or parallel so you want to check that out. Some MPPT chargers don't provide any worthwhile gain with parallel 12V panels so you need to do some research if you are going to have a parallel string.

With my panels I source some plastic ball joints and used tent fibre glass support rods to make rods with a ball joint at one end. I have attached the ball joint to the panel frame, the rods lie flat against the panel during transport and angle out to prop the panel during use.

Flexible panels won't last long if they are flexed to often so make sure whatever you mount them to is rigid and use a mounting system that has give to let them expand and contract without stressing them.

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Reply By: RMD - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 16:09

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 16:09
Lyndon.
An Enerdrive MPPT solar and alt input unit can be purchased for around$450. They will handle two panels in series, is, higher voltage input of solar, so the system starts earlier, finishes later and requires less cable size than straight / normal panel use. More efficient use of available solar energy. A flexible panel can be ocky strapped to two long and two short ground pegs because they have eyelets at their edge/corners.
When using the generator for battery recharge, I hope you use a large 240v charger off the AC section and not try and use the 8 amp 12v DC useless output.
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 18:33

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 18:33
Hi RMD

I can picture what you mean about the pegs. I usually run 2 x 25A 12v chargers when running the generator.
The panels I listed for whatever reason can be put in parallel or series.
I understand the cabling relationship to the voltage to the Vd.
Having panels that I can run in series or parallel would be great but may add complexity with set up, the type of controller I'd need, etc.

Cheers

Lyndon
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Follow Up By: RMD - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 20:53

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 20:53
Lyndon.
Having two panels in series is only as complicated as connecting in parallel, and there is benefit in having it that way. Most decent quality MPPT chargers of good output ability will take the higher voltage input. Higher voltage systems are more efficient. The increased voltage of the panels in series will approach 40 volts. Most MPPT are at least 50 v input voltage, some 100v but the MPPT simply converts the energy and amps available into more amps than the PWM can achieve. You can have three panels in series. Don’t have all solar as one panel. If a huge panel throws in the towel, then no solar. With multiple panels in series or parallel you can keep using the surviving panels. Seeing you do your own connections etc, I would think it is well within your ability. If running fridges as freezer, do you have far more insulation than just a fridge cover? Using additional insulation uses less AH power especially in tropical areas.
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Reply By: qldcamper - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 16:26

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 16:26
Another weak point i have found is the cable where it joins the terminal inside the junction box.
The cable has very high voltage insulation which is round and the gland on the junction box cant grip it tight enough to stop it rotating every time you move it twisting and fatiguing the conductor which is an industrial not very flexable wire. Found mine to already to be breaking strands with only the testing and one 3 day trip.
I have replaced it with 4mm twin sheathed auto type cable which has the same size yet more flexable cable size and a flat profile so the silicone inside the junction block stops it from flexing. Both positive and negative enter from the same side within the outer sheath. Makes handling the panels a lot easier to get the wires neat and out of the way.
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 18:38

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 18:38
Hi

Can't quite picture the connections you are referring to but always do my own wiring and generally change connection over to Anderson plugs.

Cheers

Lyndon
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 09:21

Sunday, Mar 15, 2020 at 09:21
It is inside the junction box that the wires come out of attached to the panel.
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 16:53

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 16:53
Lyndon,

I've used these guys with great success. The big plus - well it was for me - is they will make custom sized panels to suit your application. Size (both dimensions and wattage), location of the junction box, cabling, connectors - all are customisable.

Additionally, their panels are quality and well priced.

Usual disclaimer - I'm just a satisfied customer.

Cheers
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Reply By: 9900Eagle - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 19:03

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 19:03
Lyndon, one other way for light weight and strong is to stick them to 5mm corflute using exterior double sided tape. Bunnings sell it rated to 100C. From memory it might be Moroday body mounting tape you would just have to check the max temp for the tape. I know it sticks to corflute also available at bunnings, although I buy it elsewhere in 8x4 sheets a lot cheaper.




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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 20:52

Saturday, Mar 14, 2020 at 20:52
Thanks.

Had to google corflute, didn't know what it was off the top of my head.

Yep, good idea.

Cheers
Now is the only time you own
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Reply By: Batt's - Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 02:55

Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 02:55
I have a 50w flexible panel in my wifes car it works well but is reasonable heavy for it's size I got it from Solarpart 123 around18 months ago.

I suppose you have no room on your roof to mount something every bit counts and carry a smaller folding unit. Plenty of room on your bonnet seen them there before.
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Reply By: Member - Racey - Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 12:23

Monday, Mar 16, 2020 at 12:23
Lyndon, if you are considering thin film panels contact Solar 4 RV Solar 4 RV Solar panels

The owner/engineer Phil has a wealth of knowledge and the product is excellent. I am using their current range plus a Lithium battery setup. Thoroughly recommend them.
Cheers
Jon
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