Very Old Spare tyre

Submitted: Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 13:56
ThreadID: 139870 Views:1982 Replies:20 FollowUps:28
My 100 series landcruiser spare tyre must be about 15 years old. It has brand new tread on it so Im reluctant to go out and replace it but worried the rubber on it could be getting brittle.

Any thoughts on this. Would i be better having a 15year old tyre with 100% tread or replace it with a 5year old tyre with 20% tread?

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Reply By: Member - Jim S1 - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 13:59

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 13:59
If you are worried, Lorne, then change it and stop worrying. Change it ........... and relax !!

Cheers
Jim
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Follow Up By: Lorne S1 - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 14:23

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 14:23
Thats a pretty standard response I was expecting. Thanks, that really helps.
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Reply By: Member - willawa - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 14:55

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 14:55
HI Lorne S1

I have always been told by tyre manufactures that they should be replaced after 6 years no matter how much tread is on them.
So I would buy a new one and get rid of both.
Good luck
Ed
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Reply By: Mick O - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 15:06

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 15:06
Lorne, my limit for outback is 5 years of age (mine seldom last that long anyway lol). At 15 years of age, the compound will indeed be brittle and you will probably find radial cracking running around the tyre near the lip of the rim fairly soon. If you have to run the tire on low pressures, this will exacerbate the problem.

Additionally, tread is more likely to delaminate causing all sorts of issues. Heaven help you with a tyre coming apart at speed.

A new BFG A/T's start from $190 . Spend a couple of hundred bucks on a replacement tyre for peace of mind. If you can't part with it, put your old tyre on the garden trailer (not a trailer that you cart all round Australia or a caravan for that matter).

Regards

Mick
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 16:12

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 16:12
"A new BFG A/T's start from $190 . "

Crikey, those must be for a wheelbarrow, Mick. Lol.

For my BT50 they're about $300 each fitted and balanced, and that's my long-time tyre dealer looking after me.
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:25

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:25
I know Frank. I just did a quick google search. They were 245/17's on spesh. A lot of other dealers have them starting at $220-$230.

Tyroola ;BFG A/T's at $190

Cheers
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Reply By: Member - Racey - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 15:19

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 15:19
Definitely replace it.
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Reply By: Ron N - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 16:00

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 16:00
It depends on how it's been stored. If it's been stored in the sun, then it probably needs replacing.

But if it's been stored under a vehicle or in a boot all that time, then I see no reason to scrap it.

I have tyres that are over 20 years old and still performing satisfactorily. But they haven't been in strong, direct, hot sunlight for lots of years.

And a spare that has never been on the road, has never been flexed, and never endured any road impacts.

The life of a tyre is dependent on the life it has led.
If the 15 yr old tyre has endured 15 yrs of road impacts and constant flexing - then yes, it's at the end of its life.

You would probably be surprised at the age of a lot of tyres coming towards you on the highways.
The manufacturers have a vested interest in selling new tyres, and therefore want you to scrap perfectly good tyres that are 15 yrs old.

A tyre with 100% tread is more capable of taking road shocks and impacts, than one with 20% tread.

I've never seen a satisfactory-looking tyre fall apart or blow up with age - unless it already showed very obvious signs of rubber ageing.
Those signs are tiny cracks in the rubber, that indicate perished rubber, or cracking circumferentially around the bead, or long cracks in the sidewall.

Most tyres fail because they have received a severe impact that has damaged the casing plies, or a crack or other tyre damage has uncovered steel plies, and the steel has rusted.

Tyres are built with enormous safety margins - if they weren't, we'd be seeing a vast amount of accidents caused by blown-out tyres.

Many truck tyres are retreaded at up to 6 or 7 yrs old. That means the retreader expects the tyre to perform satisfactorily for a number of years yet.
This is after the tyre has already been worn out once.

Interestingly, there are no regulations or guidelines for retreaders, as regards the age of the tyres they retread.
It's up to the individual retreader to choose whether they retread a tyre that is over 6 yrs old.
A tyre in good condition, that is 6 or 7 yrs old, will more than likely be retreaded.

And that same tyre will be alongside you on the highway, carrying a full load of up to around 4 tonnes, at 100kmh, at possibly 10 or 12 yrs of age.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Lorne S1 - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 16:16

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 16:16
Thanks Ron, great response.
yeah my tyre has been under the car for its whole life, never seen sun in its life.
I never go outback or remote so its not life threatening, I might leave it until next tyre change
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 17:23

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 17:23
I suggest that ozone is responsible for tyre break down at least as much or even more than UV and keeping a tyre out of the sun has no effect on ozone exposure.
The best protection against UV attack in plastics (tyres) is to add carbon black. Tyres are absolutely loaded with carbon black.
Michelin says their tyres must not be retreaded at 10 years or more.

Personally, I would choose a 20% tread tyre that was 6 years old as a spare in preference to a tyre 15 years old, no matter what the tread level.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 18:04

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 18:04
Hard question to answer based on facts ( or lack of ), but a good example of the advantage of rotating all 5 tyres.
Sure, you have to replace all 5, but the time frame is increased and you don't get any "stale" tyres.
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 18:09

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 18:09
There was a time , and 'some' still do buy their tires and put them in the 'shed' to age a bit , a year or so , those advocating that you 'must' get new tires every 5 years must have too much money or shares in tire companies , Question , how do you know that the 'new' tires you just bought are in fact not already 3+ years old sitting in the tire sellers warehouse ? Answer , you don't unless you 'google' the manufacturers 'date' system stamped on the tire...... best practice = 5 wheel rotate AND 5 new ones when the time comes .....
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Follow Up By: Member - nickb "boab" - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 20:07

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 20:07
a TYRE fitter will know how old the TYRE is & wont touch it at 15 years .. because they know how dangerous they are !! when they let go
5 Tyre rotation would be the best .. but that's not the Question
Cheers Nick b
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 11:27

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 11:27
"you don't unless you 'google' the manufacturers 'date' system stamped on the tire." ???

They all use the year/week (YYWW) system, which is hardly a code or needing Google to decipher.

(Unless you have found an obtuse Merkin manufacturer)
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Reply By: 9900Eagle - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 19:04

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 19:04
It is stuffed, it is dangerous and the best place for it is the local tyre cemetery.

We travelled with an old owner driver friend who would use and repair his old and worn tyres. Well what a pain in the butt that was, because he was always either repairing the bloody things or replacing the blown ones.

Treat yourself to a new one.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 19:13

Friday, Apr 03, 2020 at 19:13
9900Eagle
Thank you for being an Aussie and spelling TYRE correctly as you do. Many are slipping in the Yankee TIRE as though it is normal. If they put gas in their tanks their engines won't go, similar to a vapour lock.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:03

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:03
The grammar police strike again , go directly to gaol , do not pass go or you will be tired in jail making tyres ...
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:19

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:19
Hey Alloy

Is that you will get tired in jail making tyres...., or is it you will be retired to jail making tyres......

I think with this thread it should be. You will get run over by a tired tyre, that should have been retired a long time ago.

:)
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:08

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:08
.
Eagle, to be consistent to the British domain, should it not be "retyred"?
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - PhilD_NT - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 16:38

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 16:38
It we are not allowed to use tire instead tyre, does that not also mean that we should use goal, not jail?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 17:03

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 17:03
.
Or even gaol, not "goal"? lol
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 17:10

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 17:10
Alan, I think you misread Phils reply, what I think he meant was "he kicked a gaol in goal" or was the he kicked a goal in gaol.

:)
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Follow Up By: Member - PhilD_NT - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 19:29

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 19:29
Yeah yeah, touche.

I have an ex work mate who is in Vietnam and teaches English, he loves these type of things to provide as examples of our language issues.
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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:22

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:22
.
Why do you think that they are called a "TIRE"?

Because they do, tire that is. Progressively and relentlessly. Tyres do tire.

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Banjo (WA) - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:54

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:54
Put new tyres on, drove ½ way around Australia.

At Weipa decided to rotate the two good looking spares (80% tread) to the rear rims.
Both weren't probably more than 4 years old but had been used before being relegated to be the spares.

2 days later on rough corrugations one tread de-laminated, the next day the other one went the same way.

I don't know why that happened, maybe it was just a co-incidence?

(Why shouldn't we be able to correct someone who errs. In this country it is a tyre.
Google translate says that 'tyre' in Afrikaan is 'Bull. Should we call a failed tyre Bullsh.t)

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Reply By: Griffin - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 10:07

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 10:07
https://youtu.be/-WzBf6iokFY

He may drive you mad (guaranteed actually) but he knows his stuff . Worth a read anyway.
If you can't be bothered looking at the whole article start at 28.50 minutes in.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 10:48

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 10:48
Before I clicked the link I already knew who you were referring to. I was right!
FrankP

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 18:15

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 18:15
The bloke who knows it all, and who doesn't mind telling you continually, he knows it all!

The biggest BS-artist on the Web!! He's Australias Trump of the motoring world!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 19:39

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 19:39
Ha ha, come off it, Ron, he's not that bad!

Never heard him say "FIGJAM", in any of his videos. If he's making money doing what he does, good luck to him.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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Reply By: Member - David M (SA) - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 10:10

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 10:10
Old tyres add to the wonderful memories of that big tour around Aus.
150 km north of Mt Isa when a 12 year old tyre on my 18ft single axle van decided to de-laminate. That was very exciting.
Dave.
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 14:26

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 14:26
Over 5 years chuck them. Always feels good driving off from the local tyre dealer with 4 brand new tyres... Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

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Follow Up By: Member - Jim S1 - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 15:35

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 15:35
Car feels good ........ wallet feels rather thinnish. : )

Cheers
Jim
"Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." Satchel Paige

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Reply By: Batt's - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 15:00

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 15:00
Way to old buy a new one and rotate all 5 tyres so you get your moneys worth out of them. I have always used the spare except on my first car in 1985 which had wider tyres than the spare. I'm not sure about any legalities on age if you have an accident and the tyre was proven to be perished with age. If you do some research you'll find some manufacturers say max of 5yrs some 6yrs but they should be inspected once they reach 5yrs for safety then periodically after that.
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Reply By: Bobjl - Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 22:36

Saturday, Apr 04, 2020 at 22:36
https://www.liveabout.com/the-science-of-tire-aging-3234377
Interesting information that contradicts some opinions on ageing, tread wear etc.
You need to read the entire report but of particular interest was the statement
Usage: When a tire is driven, the pressure and flexing motion circulate the internal oils through the rubber. These oils lubricate the internal rubber and keep it from drying and stiffening. So tires that are used less are often more vulnerable to aging effects.
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Reply By: Blown4by - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:55

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:55
These days tyres have less rubber in them than in years gone by. My understanding is that the safety of an old tyre has less to do with how it has been used or how it has been stored if unused, it simply deteriorates with age no matter what. Some countries ban the use of tyres after a certain age but in AUS we don't. I have had a perfectly good looking 10 year old 4WD tyre, with plenty of tread, de-laminate on me at 110kph. The ambient was in the 40's, and I'd just done 40K's on dirt and turned on to the bitumen and had just passed a road train when I felt a slight vibration in the rear. I swerved a few times to check if I had lost tyre pressure and shortly after 'bang' and the tyre had blown out. Luckily it was a rear tyre and we pulled up safely by which time the walls had shredded. If you are going on a big trip or towing the correct advice would be to scrap it. If you are just going to be tonking around the burbs and you only need a spare for emergency use long enough to get a puncture on another tyre repaired, then put the spare away again, I would keep using it as the spare. Probably just as safe as those stupid 'temporary use tyres' supplied as a spare on some vehicles today.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 13:34

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 13:34
"those stupid temporary use tyres supplied as a spare on some vehicles today"
Pure Luxury!

BMW SUV has ‘run flat’ tyres, so there isn’t a spare, a jack, or wheel brace.
Good for 150km at 80.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 14:26

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 14:26
I'd rather drive on a 20 yr old regular tyre than on those idiotic "temporary use spare wheels", that are a disaster waiting to happen.

Funny how you're obliged by law, to have tyres the same back and front, normally - but you can install one of those stupid temporary spares, and have a tyre that is vastly different in dimensions (width and diameter), and the manufacturers reckon that's O.K.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:00

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:00
.
Ron, I certainly do not disagree with your view but I understand that, for safety reasons, these "Temporary use spare wheels" and the "Space-saver spare wheels" are limited to 80kph. At least that is what the RACQ would have me believe.
From the RACQ website.... "they are only intended as an emergency replacement to get the vehicle to a place of repair, and the maximum allowable speed when one is fitted is limited to 80 km/h."

They are also usually brightly coloured, presumably to alert 'those who may be interested' that the vehicle is using them and thus constrained to 'certain requirements'.

So does that have any mollifying influence on your concerns?
Ah, I thought not! lol

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:50

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:50
Ron, one would think that the overall diameter of the temporary spare would be the same as the other "normal" wheels & tyres, otherwise you could cause damage to the differential or other components of the drive system.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 16:56

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 16:56
Macca, they are the same diameter as you said.

I won't have a vehicle with one and here aer my reasons. It maybe ok for a person that uses their vehicle round town and close to home but I don't.

Example is. I run down to Rocky on a Sunday, which is only about 340k. I get to about St Lawrence and do a tyre. Now the real problem arises, everything is shut and there isn't much at St Lawrence. So realistically I am stuck with about 190K to Rocky or 150K back to Mackay. So much for the 80K range on that space saver.

From my point of view they should never been allowed in Australia. It is just some designed trying to get as much luggage space as possible to beat the opposition, trouble is once they all have space savers the advantage is gone and we are stuck with the result.

Maybe I can live up to my nickname of slow one with a 80 kph tyre.

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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 07:28

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 07:28
Macca, some bad information from me. Saw a Mazda sedan this morning parked up with a space saver on. The space saver was a lot smaller in diameter car was sitting down on one side at the rear.

How manufactures can get away with supplying a spare like that beats me.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 12:15

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 12:15
Our new 'town car' [ and h/way -no off-road ] a Toyota Corolla 'Hybrid ' [ after 13,000km on the clock still averaging 4.1lt per hundred ] has a space saver spare , exact same diameter but the width of a 'mountain bike pushbike ' .. marked as temporary use only , the perplexing thing is that the actual wheel well will fit a FULL size spare with still lots of room the 'spare ' .... To me it seems nought but a 'cost saving' from the manufacturer as instead of supplying 5 alloys and tires a cheaper steelie and tire are supplied ....
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Reply By: nickb - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:10

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:10
15yrs is pushing it in my book. If it was me I would go with the 5yr 20% tyre.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:57

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 15:57
I prefer Michelins, but currently have 2 Bridgestones on the rear of the OKA which I acquired, used, from a friend. They are now 60% worn and 11 years old. It was my intention to run them this year for another 20K km and then transfer them to my trailer (that uses the same wheels and tyres).
I recently retired 2 Michelins that were 80% worn and the same age from the front.

I have not had any concerns running these tyres to this age and have never had one of these tyres fail except when staked in the side wall.
I suspect that part of the answer to this reliability is because my tyres are loaded to a MAXIMUM of 55% of the tyre's load rating.

Our previous F350 4WD camper experienced numerous catastrophic tyre failures with tyres loaded to 90% of their rating, until I changed the rims and fitted tyres with a higher load rating whereupon the failures ceased.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 17:17

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 17:17
The bigger problem with unused full tread "old" tyres, their life doesn't end there, they end up on new box trailers. Most trailer builders used to put used tyres and rims on new trailers, i'm guessing not much has changed in that cut-throat industry!!
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 18:08

Sunday, Apr 05, 2020 at 18:08
And what about all the "good, used" secondhand tyres shipped in from Japan, by the container load, and sold to tens of thousands of eager buyers?

I'll wager no-one is checking to see if they're all under 6 years old. And they go on to do many more years on local vehicles.

Back in the "good ol' days", before we had thick reams and reams of nanny state rules, and lots of common sense abounded - there was a company in W.A. called Bell Bros.

Bell Bros were earthmoving and trucking contractors, and from about 1952, they acquired the distributorship rights to Michelin tyres.
Bell Bros were using Michelin tyres on their heavily-loaded trucks, in places such as the Woodie-Woodie Road, before it was even listed as a road!

Bell Bros also had a large "Bandag" retreading setup for tyres, and they would only retread Michelins first, and then, later, other selected "good" brands of tyre were recapped.

When Bell Bros recapped a tyre, they would buff out one letter in the front of the brand name, so you could see how many times a tyre had been recapped.
So, one recap, you would see "ichelin" on the tyre, second recap it would be "chelin", and so on.

As hard as it may be to believe, when I took my tyres in to Bell Bros for recapping in the 1960's and 1970's, I would often see Michelin truck tyres on the Bell Bros tyre shop floor, with only "lin" or just "in", showing for the brand name!

Now, when you think that those truck tyres had been through 5 and 6 recaps, and were still providing satisfactory service - and I hate to think how old some of those tyres were - then it just goes to prove that either todays tyres are made from poorer quality materials! - or someone in power has just decided it's necessary to boost tyre sales!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 07:35

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 07:35
Ron, my dad used bandage retreads on the trucks and he always got better miles out of the retreads than the originals. Haven't heard the name Bell Bros used now for many years I can remember when they took over Western transport in Qld.
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Reply By: Member - DOZER - Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:32

Monday, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:32
The spare will be good for a spare if you are within 500kms of home....what i mean is if your out and about and need to use it, it will work well, but....if you are planning a long trip heavy loaded, i would not rely on it getting you back home. It will be high load high speed that kills that tyre...My last trip....which was a beauty, i bought 3 new tyres, and the 4th was the spare off the wheel carrier (in sunlight for 4 years) The best tread removed tyre became my spare. That original spare made it all the way around australia and across the simo, but it was noticeable that it was chopping and cracking up on the rubber....it eventually died when i got back home quite unexpectedly 1 day, it just went flat from an internal steel belt wearing a hole from inside far enough for the air pressure to get under the rubber and cause a bubble. I was very lucky it didnt do that half way across the simpson. Hope this helps.
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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