80 Series -off set wheel question

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 05, 2020 at 20:12
ThreadID: 140213 Views:800 Replies:5 FollowUps:5
Hi all. I have a question about -off set for my 1996 wagon. What is the best or most off set one can go without affecting my steering. My car has got -2” and its shocking to drive let alone what stress it would be causing, but the car is fitted with aftermarket guards so i am hoping maybe 1” -off set may do the trick, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thanks
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Reply By: Member - Core420 - Sunday, Jul 05, 2020 at 20:45

Sunday, Jul 05, 2020 at 20:45
Every offset change from oem may affect steering. It could be negligible or it could be pronounced. For example: my oem offset was -60mm. I replaced oem tyres 245/70/16" with 245/75/16" on new rims with offset of -30mm. There is no discernible difference in steering.
AnswerID: 632391

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Jul 05, 2020 at 21:18

Sunday, Jul 05, 2020 at 21:18
There are legal limits for off-set changes. Exceed them and you will need to consult an engineer.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
AnswerID: 632392

Reply By: RMD - Sunday, Jul 05, 2020 at 23:36

Sunday, Jul 05, 2020 at 23:36
Chop
I believe the std OEM offset for an 80 is ZERO and it sounds like you have 60 series LC rims on it if near 50mm negative. If 50mm neg and t should be ZERO then the wheel will appear very deep dished and if rim width is the same the steering centre, ie, the imaginary line through the swivel hubs bearings where it hits the ground will be well inside the tyre centre, usually that line is close to the steering axis line. Can be same but usually quite close. eg, 6mm centre of tyre outside the steering centre. Called scrub raduis" From memory the 80 has it's stud flange on the hub in a different place to a 60 series so the road forces/load is still kept near the inner bearing, ie, tyre centre close to inner bearing of hub. If 50mm neg the bearing load will be greatly increased and not near what it should be AND the tyre centre well outside the steering centre which will cause very erratic steering even with small ribs or hole in the road surface. The impacts the tyre receives will be transferred to the steering arms and tie rods FAR FAR more than when the tyre centre and steering centre are close. The steering box will be receiving a hammering as well.
You most likely will experience premature swivel hub bearings/steering axis bearing failure, wheel bearing failure and every bump will put it off line because it is allowed to do the steering and not you.
A wheel with offset outside the steering centre causes the tyre to, not scrub slightly in the centre of tread at road surface but allow the wheel to actually ROTATE as the steering is turned from centre to lock. If your tyres begin to turn more than just slightly when turned from straight to full lock, and the visibly rotate 50to 70 mm at tyre edge, then my opinion is it is far to much offset. Best to investigate that.
Standard or close to standard will give the best life of components. Everyone likes the TUFF look of wide track wheels but it is really a mod which compromises life of all mentioned components, forgot wheel studs breaking. Many failures with wide wheels, less with minimal offset change or std wheels. Your choice, your life.
AnswerID: 632394

Follow Up By: Chop 1961 - Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 08:31

Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 08:31
Thanks for reply, i did write a big reply to you RMD but it seems to have disappeared ( i am not real savy on this forum stuff) . To shorten what i did write was that i have inherited the car with these issues, the car has aftermarket flares so what in your eyes would be the best width and offset 16” rims to buy for it, it also has 33” tyres which i am going to change to 32”. It also has a 3” lift to which i am going to drop 1”, thanks.
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FollowupID: 909053

Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 09:43

Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 09:43
Chop
The lift alone will make it flighty to steer, even with std rims because, unless there has been a caster correction within the front arms, done by bending to spec at lift height or eccentric bushes, the caster will be far less than original and it will float and have no sense of positive direction or self centreing of the steering when you release the steering wheel. If access to a small builders digital level you can apply that to a "square with axis" flat area and directly read the caster. Has to be around 3degrees. As Dozer mentioned below, up to 1" neg rims would most likely not be a problem. Any looseness in ball joints or steering box slack will also make steering more vague, so have all that checked or adjusted so minimal slack is present. All to be done before any rim changing.

Caster makes the vehicle rise slightly when turned/steered, and gravity on the vehicle makes the vehicle self centre and straighten up purely by the caster angle action. Ever used a supermarket trolley with a bent swivel?
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FollowupID: 909055

Reply By: Member - DOZER - Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 08:42

Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 08:42
The std offset is 0. youcan go negitive 18mm or 25mm by running 60 series rims/ROH etc, will look a little wider. The question is, other than fil the guards, why?? turning radius and tyre rubbing front mudflap will result if you go too wide
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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AnswerID: 632395

Follow Up By: Chop 1961 - Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 10:36

Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 10:36
What happened Dozer is that i left my car with a mechanic who cut his teeth on 80 series. He has had the car for 11mths with an open cheque book while i was away working with my request being to restore it with only genuine parts. Yes, he has done a good job on most of the car except for, in my eyes, driveabilty and being a reliable car. He has built it in his eyes what he wants, where on the other hand i am near 60 which is not what i would have done. The wheels will be going (theres $3g down the drain) and also the 3” lift will be going (another $1800). He has fitted aftermarket flares which i now need too work with so hence my question about what wheels to fit.. i am hoping i can fit 2” lift springs and still keep my 3” lift shockies that were fitted. I am also hoping i can fit some wheels that will match the 2” lift and flares, What i meant by filling in the guard was i dont need that look you see on some Cruisers where the car is jacked up and the wheels look tiny, i need to make it all marry up if that makes sence.. i have forked out $25g on this build so far and i need to rescue what i can of it and make it drive how it should. Thanks
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FollowupID: 909056

Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 13:03

Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 13:03
Chop.
The mechanic, I am critical of many of them, not all, possibly has little idea of front end alignment and effects of modifications and their detrimental effects on vehicles. It may be trendy, look cool or is that Kool? but unless he understands the implications of the mods he performs then it shows little actual mechanical knowledge and it's correct application. I agree, it seems he built what he perceives as good, but is it really? Did he consult you about the mods, if not, although an "open cheque book" doesn't mean he is legally allowed to mod beyond the limits of modification law and then fit items which you DID NOT WANT. I don't know the closing and opening lengths of the shocks, but if lowering it to a more reasonable level, it is easy to check my measuring both the vehicle closed suspension position and the appropriate shock length to suit and see if they truly match. Some discussion as to the overreach and unnecessary fitment of expensive parts needs to occur. He is directly liable for anything which does not conform to the regulations and if it doesn't he should be refunding the cost of those items. Just because he "cut his teeth" on 80 series vehicles doesn't in anyway mean all his work is Kosher and correct. It seems he has gaps in his basic understanding of vehicles and particularly suspension and steering. Only 9% of mechanics gain a decent level of trade qualifications. Did you check his ability beforehand? After your info, it seems you didn't inherit the vehicle as is but it was made unsuitable by this bloke at your cost by someone who is a bit too Gung Ho. Just replacing and bolting on stuff isn't very technologically demanding and is achieved by many even those without qualifications in the field, but getting it singing correctly requires a greater/deeper degree of understanding of vehicle systems.
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FollowupID: 909059

Reply By: swampy - Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 16:47

Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 16:47
HI
Legal track changes do apply and exist .
Legal lift is a combo of body and tyre lift from memory .
Spend some time reading the VSB rules . These are National rules NOT State based . State based rules are suppose to be obsolete by local govt but they still push them .
Plenty of CORRECT info eg vsb and explanation of lift on the web .

Tyre place and suspension places will tell u anything to get a job .

Swivel hub bearing preload . If your mechanic does not no the spec or how to set them go somewhere else .

Oh yea I`m a mechanic
AnswerID: 632400

Follow Up By: Chop 1961 - Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 20:03

Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 20:03
Thanks Swampy, i went and seen a bloke this arvo after work who is a bit of legend up this way (FNQ) with Cruisers and suspension etc. He pretty well is the last bloke you can see before hitting the Crib track and the Cape and is near retirement but he reckons he will sort it out next week, its been another learning curve for sure, if it was a motorcycle thing i would have been on the ball, cheers
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FollowupID: 909067

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