water tank problem
Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:43
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Marcel Hoevenaars
Hi, I have a 45 litre stainless steel
water tank in my Toyota Land Cruiser.
I haven't done much travelling lately, yes, I know, but now I'm ready to go.
Whilst preparing for the trip, I noticed that the water that was left from my last trip, had turned completely brown. So I emptied the tank, filled it up again, and checked: still brown.
Then I added bicarb to the water and the water came out crystal clear.
The next round of water, without any extras, and the water was still brownish.
As far as I know, it can't be algae, because they need light.
But what else can it be, and even more important, how can I get rid of it..
Reply By: RMD - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 14:36
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 14:36
Algae which grows in diesel tanks doesn't require light and under silicon seals in bathrooms where there is no light mould will grow quite
well.
So maybe it is algae and until you eradicate it it will continue. Bicarb may shift it but not clean the innards of the tank. Unless washed over all internals but spray or moving the tank upside down etc, whatever you use won't contact all surfaces. I imagine a weak caustic soda solution would help.
Pool chlorine solution perhaps.
What quality water are you filling it with? that may be causing the contamination.
AnswerID:
632603
Reply By: Member - Vince M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 14:47
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 14:47
you can try by putting in some
water tank cleaner & fill only 3/4 fill & drive around a bit then dump it & fill, then put in "sudbury" aqua fresh this works
well (its meant for Marine water tanks) aqua fresh is for fresh tasting odor free
drinking water (you have changed the water filter if it has one?)
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Notso - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 14:55
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 14:55
Rust? could be the answer!
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: terryt - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 15:35
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 15:35
Agreed Notso. I had a poly tank and the water had a brownish tinge. It was the screw holding the capture wire (so you dont lose the lid). It went rusty and fouled the water.
FollowupID:
909406
Follow Up By: Notso - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 16:16
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 16:16
There are
test kits for iron in water but the simplest way is to fill a clear plastic bottle with water and let it settle overnight, the rust will settle to the bottom fairly quickly!
FollowupID:
909407
Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 17:24
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 17:24
Just because it is a stainless tank doesn't mean it won't rust. Rust is often seen in laundry basins which are stainless. It depends largely on the quality if the stainless used for the tank.
FollowupID:
909409
Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 17:22
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 17:22
I had a need to make safe for
drinking water a SS tank that had been used for three years for
grey water.
The tank was baffled so steam and high pressure wands were out. I didn't know the grade of SS so consulted a metal pickling business for advice about what not to do. (You have to be careful, you can ruin SS with some acids such as
pool [hydrochloric] acid and IIRC, overly strong caustic soda solution. It depends on the grade of SS.)
First wash was a very hot reasonably strong caustic solution (but cannot recall the concentration, sorry). Filled the tank to the brim and left it for a few days, rolling it around the back yard two or three times a day. I did not want to dispose of that solution down the drain so did some chemical calculations and neutralised it with
pool acid to make salty water.
After rinsing I gave it a hefty dose of household bleach solution (about 1 part in 20, IIRC) and rolled that around a few times a day for a week.
Then I put 5 litres of rust converter (phosphoric acid) in. Phosphoric acid is used to pickle SS if needed after welding. I did this just in case any of the SS around the welds had been compromised. Pickling would reduce the ill effects, according to the advice I got.
Then another rinse and a dose of bicarb soda solution, another rinse and then returned to service.
You can still see a layer of something on a baffle that is visible through the filler, but whatever it is I think it's
well and truly neutralised. We've been using that tank for
drinking water now for two years with no ill effects.
I always store our tanks full and if it's been a long while between trips, sanitise them and the plumbing with 1:100 solution of household bleach for 24 hours, then rinse and refill.
My situation is extreme compared to yours, Marcel, but maybe this will give you a few ideas.
Cheers
AnswerID:
632608
Reply By: Hoyks - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 18:21
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 18:21
Sodium percarbonate is what you want.
Low toxicity, but rips organic molecules apart.
Sold as nappy sanitiser if you want the tank to smell pretty, or
home brew bottle steriliser if you want to drink out of it. Pretty cheap, pour some in the tank, fill it with water, drive around for a day or two and rinse it out.
AnswerID:
632611
Reply By: 2517. - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 20:58
Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 at 20:58
I think all grades of stainless will rust,it must be kept clean this is why cutlery rust if it get grease on it and no air ,next thing rust.
AnswerID:
632615
Reply By: Marcel Hoevenaars - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:07
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:07
So, my next
water tank shouldn't be a stainless steel one.
What would be the alternative?
Cheers,
Marcel
PS thanks for all your advice
AnswerID:
632623
Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:31
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:31
Cheap stainless will rust under certain circumstances. Better grades will not.
I have a stainless
water tank in my ute. No problems after 6 months non use. My cleaned out SS tank in my caravan - ditto.
Welding can affect SS - the seams, welded outlets, etc.
I suggest if you can take the tank out, do so. Get a 5 litre can of rust converter from Bunnings, put that in, block up the inlets and outlets and breather and slosh it around and leave it for a while - a few days if you can, with occasional agitation.
Then a thorough rinse, another bicarb wash and then see how it goes.
FollowupID:
909428
Follow Up By: Marcel Hoevenaars - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:08
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:08
Mine wasn't a cheap tank, it is part of an OffRoad Systems outfit (see
http://www.offroadsystems.com.au/water_tanks.html)
It's not going to be easy to take it out, not on short notice anyway :(
I'll be cleaning it out as good as I can, and take an extra 2 jerry cans filled with good
drinking water for the coming trip, and deal with the problem once I'm back..
Cheers
FollowupID:
909430
Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:15
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:15
Hi Marcel,
Mine in the ute came from the same people. I've had water in there for six months and just checked it in a white bucket. Clean as.
If it's biological, caustic soda and bleach should at least neutralise it, even if you cannot get the residue out.
I can't think of anything else other than what I said above. If it is rust, the rust converter should stabilise it.
How old is the tank? Maybe talk to ORS. Graham is a pretty reasonable bloke.
Cheers
FollowupID:
909431
Follow Up By: Marcel Hoevenaars - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:02
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 12:02
The tank was installed in November 2013.
We noticed the brownish residue for the first time almost 2 years ago, when we were in
Wanaaring.
One of the first things we did was contacting ORS.
They said:
"Regarding the tank construction. The tank is definitely made of 304 stainless steel and TIG welded with stainless rod. So really no chance of rust.
We have been making tanks for over 20 years in the same way. So confident its not rush."
Last thing we can do before this trip is thoroughly clean the hose.
Originally this was our 'overseas trip' year, that's why we left it a bit, but with the whole Covid-thing...
Thanks for all the suggestions,
Cheers, Marcel
FollowupID:
909434
Follow Up By: Member - Vince M (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 14:15
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 14:15
Stainless 304 items rust all the time & that's why good marine fittings/bolts etc are 316
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: tonysmc - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 14:29
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 14:29
As for your next tank, it all depends on your set up and what will fit in. Many years ago I ditched the stainless (can't see inside) tank and use 3 x 25L plastic water container "jerry type". After a bit of rearranging to make a space for them, I can fill them in situ or take them out if
water supply is a distance away. Very handy if filling from a stream or a tap without a hose fitting. I always keep one for clean
drinking water only and the other two for washing etc. Also good if you get a leak you will only lose a maximum of 1/3 of your water and easy to replace containers as you need. I have a hose through the lid and pump straight from them in situ.
FollowupID:
909445
Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 14:51
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 14:51
Marcel,
I live not too far from ORS. I dropped in today and had a chat with Graham about this thread. He is aware of the issue, has seen it before. He thinks that amount of discolouration you're seeing has maybe come from iron-rich water left in the tank. Would that be possible?
With the other customer, they cut open the tank and found a soft red residue on surfaces in the tank. There was no rust on the seams and welds, only the residue. The residue was easily removed by a swipe with a finger.
He suggests try a mineral stain remover such as CLR, which works on iron stains. He also thinks that you could get an abrasive action inside the tank to move some of the residue if you put some course river sand or fine gravel in there with the stain remover and slosh it about. Leave it in there, sloshing about for your rinses and other treatments and then get as much out as you can. You wont be able to get it all out, but it won't hurt to leave some in there as long as it doesn't block the outlet.
I found a link that might be helpful. Company is based in WA where they have notoriously iron-rich
bore water.
Link I didn't browse the whole site, but a call to pick their brains might be fruitful.
FollowupID:
909446
Follow Up By: Marcel Hoevenaars - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 15:32
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 15:32
Hi Frank,
Thanks for all the efforts that you put into solving my tank problem :)
As far as my wife and I know, we have never filled up the tank with
bore water. We used to live in the Blue Mountains, so we've filled up there, we've filled up here in Hervey Bay, we've filled up once in
Cooktown, because the water was so extremely good there, so only good water.
CLR, if I understand the instructions on the producer's website correctly (
https://clrbrands.com/Products/CLR-Household/CLR-Calcium-Lime-Rust-Remover), has to be applied directly on the stain, so that's going to be difficult :)
For the moment, I think that we have cleaned the tank, including the hose, as good as we can, and it'll have to do for this trip.
I'll report back once we're back
home, probably early September.
Cheers, and thanks again,
Marcel
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 15:43
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 15:43
Sorry I can't do more than offer suggestions. Lucky you, travelling. Though travelling within NSW is not yet banned, it is discouraged for other than necessities. So having just got my ute back on the road after 5 and a half months (long story), I still cannot use it unless I flout the intentions of the public health system. I'm not going to do that.
Cheers
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 16:43
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 16:43
Cleaning as mentioned may be good with circulation through the tank and perhaps a filter before returning to tank during the flushing. A garden/tank pump would provide plenty of flow to stir things up.
I doubt very much that CLR would remove anything in the tank. I have unfortunately used it, tried to use it, for the purposes they state it is suitable for. Never had one ounce of success with it and a total waste of money and time, I found. Total CON. Tried it once on rusty radiator water which got onto some concrete and it was useless. Did not do anything.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 16:46
Wednesday, Jul 22, 2020 at 16:46
Maybe
this stuff might work?
FollowupID:
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