100 Series with I*#@S

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 22:40
ThreadID: 14032 Views:1858 Replies:9 FollowUps:21
This Thread has been Archived
Hi All,
Out for a drive on Sunday up at Appin in my pride and joy V8 Cruiser, when my truck (want-a-be) started to make a 'BAD' grinding sound from the drivers side front wheel. Oh the joy having to limp out the last 300m and toyed back on a trailer. Dropped it off at Toyota with 5015KM on the clock.
Got the call today, snapped a tooth or something (not mechanically enclinded) on the pinon and then it just F@#!*D up from there = front diif GOOOOONNE!

They tell me I should have it back Friday or Monday arvo (WARRANTY JOB) before I take it over to ARB for front and rear lockers

Steve J
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: gonebush - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:02

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:02
.....................bugger...............
AnswerID: 64542

Reply By: Schevchenko - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:05

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:05
You shouldn't have been treating it so brutally steve ;)
AnswerID: 64543

Reply By: Member - Bear - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:06

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:06
I picked up mine today (only 36kms on the clock).

Will the lockers fix this type of problem??
AnswerID: 64544

Follow Up By: Steve J - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:09

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:09
Bear
I'm hoping it will allow me to ease up some of these tracks a little easier, and not have to give it as much (fingers crossed)
Thanks Steve J
0
FollowupID: 325579

Reply By: rickwagupatrol - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:06

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:06
i was gunna make all sort of comments about toyota's,,,,,,,,but i wont,,,,,hope you get it back soon.

rick.. :):)
AnswerID: 64545

Reply By: Member - Roachie- Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:07

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:07
G'day Steve,
Firstly, please let me say that I'm sorry you've been caught and had a bad experience with your new yota.
Secondly, I'll fess up that I'm a died in the wool patrol nut, so I might be a bit biased in what I'm gunna say next.....but here goes.

Toyota used to make solid vehicles....60 series was probably their best effort and 80 wasn't far behind. The 100 series is in my opinion a damn disgrace to the marque.
Don't worry, Nissan have sort of followed suit....the GU is very good (like the 80 series was) but not as tough as the old GQ was. I despair that the next patrol will be like the 100 series.
It's too bad you didn't research on this site b4 you bought the 100.......as the front end woes are well documented on here......even the standard 100 series with the beam axle is not as tough as it should be....ask Des Lexic about that...

IMHO fitting Air Lockers will not solve the problem and may in fact exacibate it. They need to have an inherently strong drive train in the first place or the extra stresses they create across an axle will only serve to show up any weaknesses.

Good luck for the future.....
AnswerID: 64546

Follow Up By: Steve J - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:13

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:13
Thanks Roachie,
I did look at the Patrols but didn't fit into them and the changing of seats was a pain as there is about a foot difference in height between the Minister of Finance and myself
Steve J
0
FollowupID: 325582

Follow Up By: Schevchenko - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:14

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:14
How does the 120 prado front diff compare to the cruiser's? Much trouble there?
0
FollowupID: 325583

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie- Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:20

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:20
Shevy.... Not sure, but I don't recall hearing any horror stories about the 120's on here. The only bloke I know with one is Muddy Doe (aka Steven L) and he's had no worries with his as far as I know....but it's still only really new.
We did have one tag along with us up to the top of Mt Arden (north of Pt Augusta) recently on Anzac weekend and it did it easily (but then again, so did a dual cab Courier- so i guess that wasn't a huge test, eh?).
0
FollowupID: 325585

Follow Up By: Schevchenko - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:27

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:27
Roachie - I just checked your vehicles specs - WHAT A LIST! do you live in that thing or something? Your truck has become my new benchmark.
0
FollowupID: 325588

Follow Up By: srowlandson - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 08:01

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 08:01
The 120 Series has a much beefier front doff and CV set up than the previous 90 series Prado.

The diff is actually the same as the old 80 series rear, although with a few mods here and there (therefore not technically the same, but the same heritage)

I'f given mine a hiding with 285's and no drama as yet.

Same design runs the 180Kw V6 andthe V8 frmo the 100 series is in the prado in the US markets, so it can take the pounding.

The front diff of the 100 can be broken is it is shock loaded, or loaded when in reverse. 80's had a similar problem.

Fitting lockers can help as they are a stronger centre.

One 'fix' for the 80 was fitting a solid machined spacer instead of the factory collapsable one. might be an option on the 100.

GU's have their drama too, 2.8's doing heads, 3.0 (early ones) doing motors, 4.2's and 3.0's doing gearboxes, cracking rear spring mounts, flywheels cracking,

I could start going through all the faults that are fairly common with all models, but i don't have time....

Just be happy with your purchase. If you aren't, trade it in. All cars are great, All cars have Faults... Deal with it.

0
FollowupID: 325603

Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 17:55

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 17:55
Schevchenko....don't say things like that to Roachie....he will get a swollen head....hahahahaha
0
FollowupID: 325678

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie- Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 09:35

Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 09:35
Hey Willie,

Far too late for that.....(ie: swelled head syndrome!!) LOL

Everytime I add something else to the pootrol, my head swells inversely proportional to the size of the shrinkage of my wallet!!!! LOL

Schevy.......I'm often falsely accused by SWMBO of spending more time on or under the 'trol than on or under her. So I guess it could be said I do almost live in the bloody thing........but it makes for a cool "doghouse" when I've been too much of a mongrel. hahahaha
0
FollowupID: 325817

Reply By: Freshn - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:19

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:19
AFAIK AirLockers still use the factory pinion and crown wheel. Only the diff center is replaced with the AirLocker unit so if failures are happening elsewhere they'll continue to do so AirLocked or not.
AnswerID: 64549

Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:38

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:38
Correct me if I am wrong, but i reckon that most failures are probably bought about when one front wheel is in the air, (spinning at twice driven speed due to other front wheel being stationary) and then suddenly getting traction. The crown/pinion suddenly goes from effectively no load to being fully loaded.

If a locker was operating, the front diff is still driving the wheel with traction (ie, no front wheel is stationary) and the wheel in the air is not spinning at double speed. When it does finally find traction, there is no shock load on the crown/pinion.

So, IMHO, a locker should help significantly in preventing this type of breakage. But if you want to stop it altogether, get a Patrol ;-)

Cheers

Captain
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
LC 200 + AOR Quantum

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 325592

Follow Up By: Steve J - Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:45

Tuesday, Jun 22, 2004 at 23:45
Captain,
I hoping your right, with these purchases of front and rear lockers $2800 installed, it's a big hole in my pocket after all the other toys on it.
Steve J
0
FollowupID: 325593

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 00:40

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 00:40
With lockers you have no warranty on any of the front driveline now:-(

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 325599

Follow Up By: srowlandson - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 08:04

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 08:04
WRONG.

You will only lose the warranty on the Diff centre itself.

The Manufacturer will have to prove that the diff Lock caused another failure. Very hard to do.

But they will probably mark you vehicle down with a note on your next service ;) As i know my old GU and a few others had this. Means the State Service Field officer had to visit and approve all warranty work.

Steve
0
FollowupID: 325604

Follow Up By: Outnabout David (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 10:11

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 10:11
freshn,

There is also a school of thought that the fitting of the ARB locker reduces flexing og the Crown and pinion. The problem I see with these failures is you never really no when the damage was done. Quite often they break in non extreme situations but days earlier the vehicle may have been rock crawling. Remeber the diff doesn't break until the crack lets go!

With Mr Lexic rigid axle the damage may have been done earlier in the day when he tried bulldozing a rock with his front wheel. Who know's??
0
FollowupID: 325611

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 10:12

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 10:12
I don't know about being so wrong. I think you would have one hell of a fight on your hands if you had to make a claim.Toyota owners that have already made some sort of driveline warranty claim are being knocked back for subsequent claims. A mate with a locker in his Prado had a CV claim knocked back. $1800 later.....back on the road.

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 325612

Follow Up By: srowlandson - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 12:01

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 12:01
Well, your statement that fitting lockers voicds the drivetrain warranty was wrong, it doesn't.

but... you are correct in saying that the dealer has something they can blame... and will refuse warranty. this is where the relationship with the owner of the vehicle and dealer will come into it.

A classic example is GoodWill. Dealers and Manufacturers often replace things as goodwill. therefore they are not accepting liability for the failure (by putting is down as warranty) but will pay for it.

If you look after the dealer, by purchasing the vehicle and returning to get it serviced there as per the book, you generally get more in the way of goodwill, even outside of warranty.

In the case of a 100series, it is quite easy to argue that the vehicle is sold with factory fitted difflocks front and rear. Therefore the vehicles drivetrain can handle the extra strain placed by using them. The can claim the owner failed to use them properly (which is often the case..) or that the car was pushed beyond its limits (which again is often the case). Warranty covers manufacturers defects. It doesn't cover someone destroying something by pushing the vehicle too hard.

Diffs and CV's commonly break when the vehicle is in the high levels of the tacho... some lock to lock or heavy steering and when the vehicle bounces and the wheel is suddenly loaded up by making contact with the ground.

Prado CV failure is fairly common, but often, unfortunately it is the owners fault.

I too have argueed and fought with nissan over issues with my GU, some i won, some i lost.

Iwas Extremely surprised my $2500 flywheel which cracked was replaced under warranty. I had my 36" Swampers on the vehicle when i took it took the dealer. I know when it cracked and i was hammering up a well rutted greasy hill and heard it go bag.
0
FollowupID: 325624

Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 15:53

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 15:53
I was refering to the front drivetrain only but regardless I wouldn't want to be relying on 'good will' for a warrantly claim especially with all the reports of Toyota saying too bad like the post below.

Leroy
0
FollowupID: 325661

Reply By: ceredig - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 15:28

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 15:28
RE-- Front Crown Wheel, HiLux, Warranty.

My first one was spotted when the 'locker went in. All chipped and bruised.
Toyota gave me a new one at a goood discount. Said 4years is technically out of warranty, but these things aren't supposed to break...

My second one dropped a tooth through the oil drainer well inside the 12 month warranty, but... Toyota said that it was broken through my misstreatment. I said I was just driving along a country road (read bush track grade 3 -not difficult), They agreed but said "so what" warranty is ONLY for faulty materials or bad workmanship, goodbye sir!
AnswerID: 64652

Follow Up By: srowlandson - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 18:26

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 18:26
Do you get your vehicle serviced by the dealer? and often (as per service book?)
0
FollowupID: 325690

Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 20:22

Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 20:22
Nothing is unbreakable in the wrong hands......
0
FollowupID: 325943

Reply By: Crackles - Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 21:27

Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 at 21:27
Gaday Steve.
Unfortunatly I find myself a bit of an expert on blown 100 series diffs (3) and can tell you that fitting an ARB diff lock does lessen the chance of blowing it again.
The unnofficial reason they let go is the original cast diff centre flexs allowing the crown wheel to separate from the pinion gears. This normally occurs in 1st low range when you lift a wheel, it spins then suddenly regains traction. BOOF#%?!
The ARB centre is machined then bolted together & supposably 10 times more ridgid. In addition the crushable spacer can be replaced with a machined one with even less flex although I havn't done that mod to mine yet.
The locker does not need to be engaged to make it stronger, in fact it would probably only add more stress when it's in.
Next time you blow one (hope not) you don't need to limp home or put it on a trailer. Instead remove the front tail shaft then take off the dust caps, circlip & splined axle end cap. Replace the dust cap, lock centre diff then drive home in rear wheel drive. 4 wheeler mag had a 3 page article on how to do it. (unfortunatly shows how common it is)
What fool of an engineer thought it would be OK to fit a Hilux diff in a Cruiser??????
Cheers Craig...........
AnswerID: 64741

Follow Up By: Steve J - Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 00:27

Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 00:27
Thanks Craig

Oh and your right in what happened "This normally occurs in 1st low range when you lift a wheel, it spins then suddenly regains traction. BOOF#%?!"
Steve J
0
FollowupID: 325792

Follow Up By: paul - Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 17:11

Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 17:11
most playdos, like mine, don't have a manual centre diff lock - is engaged automatically when we slip into high or low - does this mean the manual way to disengage the front diff to get home via the back one is not gonna work for me ?

thanks for any further technical assistance u can give me.

paul
0
FollowupID: 325881

Follow Up By: Crackles - Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 21:48

Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 21:48
Sorry Paul I'm not familiar with the Prado's 4x4 system. If it has a viscous centre diff I don't think it would be possible to drive in rear wheel drive as described. Cheers Craig..................
0
FollowupID: 325957

Reply By: Utemad - Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 08:32

Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 at 08:32
A friend of mine has an 'unbreakable Hilux' It is a 2002 base model dual cab with a 2.7litre petrol motor which he bought brand new. In the first 12 months of ownership he blew two front diffs. In the next 6 months he blew another front diff and the gearbox. Not doing anything I haven't done in the Rodeo (with no breakages - ever).

Oh what a feeling :(

Utemad
AnswerID: 64798

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)