It appears some caravan dealers cant keep up with demand for new vans

Submitted: Thursday, Oct 22, 2020 at 15:34
ThreadID: 140663 Views:2266 Replies:7 FollowUps:21
The only thing that concerns me ,is that although everyone is wanting to get out there after the dismal time over the last few months cant blame people for that, just how many are going to be towing out there on the hwy with know real knowledge of what their doing. With vans growing in size all the time and vehicles with hp to burn. , it will come a time for some sort of course to be taken for the first timers.( hopefully). Only thinking this way after spotting a toyota hilux on its roof with what looked like a near new van laying beside it, Not a pretty sight at all., especially when the road conditions where quite good. may have been mechanical failure, maybe not.


Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: Kazza055 - Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 10:52

Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 10:52
But isn't that how we all started out? The main problem is that people want to to that 3,500kg van because the specs say they can. Me, I am happy having 1,000kg to spare.

I hear it is a sellers mark with second hand vans selling for higher prices than they did a year ago.
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Follow Up By: Member - rocco2010 - Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:13

Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:13
The cynic in me wonders if there might be more than a few “near new” vans hitting the market at a discount in a year or so when impulse buyers realise caravanning isn’t really their thing.
Guy I know does some caravan driver training and I hear he is busy.
You can’t ride a high powered motorcycle (legally anyway) without the appropriate licence or drive a big truck.
Regulation would probably never work in the caravan industry (hard to even regulate manufacturers it seems) but promoting education should be the focus.
Travel safe.
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Follow Up By: Member - Sanantone - Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 07:21

Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 07:21
We all started, “the first time” don’t think you will ever teach idiots.
Tony
"For the Rover's life has pleasures, that the townsfolk will never know" - sort of from Banjo Paterson

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Reply By: Pushy - Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 15:51

Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 15:51
Second hand vans/ campers and tugs are at a premium atm.
Landcrusiers are $15 000.00 to $20 000.00 more expensive than a year ago.
Big waits for anything new as well.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 22:20

Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 22:20
Rocco wrote
"hard to even regulate manufacturers it seems"

They're not regulated, mate. They're self regulated. What a joke. My van did not comply with number plate visibility regs from the day the first of its model left the factory in 2006. I was pulled up by Plod a little while ago because of it and had to do a lot of talking to get off with a warning. To my knowledge, the new ones are still non compliant.
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Reply By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 16:31

Friday, Oct 23, 2020 at 16:31
Give it 6 months and watch the bottom fall out of the market...once the job seeker payments stop, we catch up with the worlds failing economies and the full impact of a long lasting pandemic hits home.
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Reply By: Mark C9 - Saturday, Oct 24, 2020 at 09:00

Saturday, Oct 24, 2020 at 09:00
There will be hundreds of ‘one owner driven to church on Sunday by an old person’ vans up for sale very shortly.
I've met lots of newbies over the last few months who have never camped before
I was watching a tv recently that showed the new rip offs of several well known Aussie brand names incl Kedron by Chinese manufacturers that are flooding the market – and they cant do anything about it.
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Reply By: outlaw40 - Saturday, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:28

Saturday, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:28
Yep when SWMBO figures out caravanning isn't just like going on a cruise the flash new rig will be on the market CHEAP .
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Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Saturday, Oct 24, 2020 at 12:22

Saturday, Oct 24, 2020 at 12:22
I don't really see to many people doing ocean cruises in the near future, cruise ships are just a very confined virus incubator just line planes, just larger and for a longer duration.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 09:15

Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 09:15
With only a handful (40-ish) of Covid transmissions from being on an aircraft worldwide, you might want to re-think your statement. Aircraft are NOT virus incubators. This is a proven fact.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 11:34

Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 11:34
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Well Jarse, Covid transmissions in aircraft MAY be low but I still shudder at the thought of extended proximity to other people in check-in queues, departure lounges and luggage collection. If you ain't there, yer can't catch it!
The Great Victoria Desert looks much more attractive to me.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 12:58

Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 12:58
We did a 4 week trip to UK in March 2019 and no sooner got home and started planning an 8 week trip to USA driving Route 66. We were due to fly out on 17th March and had been watching the warnings put out by the Government at https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/.

Black Friday came along and we received an email to say that out booking for Phantom of the Opera on Broadway had been cancelled and full refund paid back into our account. About an hour later Smart Traveller changed from warning to don't travel and looking at the way the Yanks are leading the world in their infection rates we decided that overseas travel was off our wish list. We thank our lucky stars that all this happened when it did, another week later and we could still be stuck somewhere in the USA.

If planes are not incubators, then it must be the airports as it seems the majority of those people that are infected have come from overseas whether by ship or plane.

I know where I would rather be, maybe not out in the Great Victorian Desert but there are many places here in Australia that we still haven't seen yet.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 17:54

Sunday, Oct 25, 2020 at 17:54
I find it amusing that people think that it's related to travelling on aeroplanes, when there have been only 40-odd cases on Earth proven to be directly contracted by being on a plane. Most of the transmissions have happened out in the community, and having been on an aircraft beforehand has no significance whatsoever.

Allan B, there are very few checkin queues at the moment. Those that are have people demonstrating better social distancing than at any shopping centre I've been to since this started. If people use standard precautions and distancing as they would/should do at the supermarket, the risk of transmission is actually the same. The risk on the aircraft is actually less, due to the airflow pattern and filtration inside the aircraft. I guess if you ain't at your local shopping centre, you can't catch it either :) But I guarantee you have a higher chance of catching it there, because more people are shopping than flying at the moment.

Like it or not, the facts are that people have less chance of catching Covid on an aeroplane than at your local shops or any other form of public transport. Since this has happened, not a single passenger of crew member in my airline has caught Covid off the plane (even though tracing has revealed that there have been Covid positive passengers on our aircraft after the fact). I fly for a job, and if I had any concerns, I would not get on the aircraft.

Kazza055, you're lucky you didn't travel to the states. Chances are you would have been exposed over there. By a local, and not by being on an aeroplane ;)

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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 08:11

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 08:11
The air recycling system on a plane is as good as any air recycling system found in an operating theater...fact. I read a very good article about how an airplanes air recycling system is a super filter for all kinds of "bugs".

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Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 09:33

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 09:33
Yes, I know that but when you are in the middle, shoulder to shoulder who you don't know and have no idea where they have been for anything up to 20 hours, is the air conditioning really going to help you?

Atleast when you go shopping you can keep your distance from others.

This is my personal choice to forgo international travel, those that still want to fly is done at their own risk.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:02

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:02
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Here is One of many concerning articles. Note the following extract from it.....

...."Another veteran flight attendant and labor representative who requested anonymity adds, “No, I don’t think air filtration in our aircraft will be enough to prevent exposure to the coronavirus.” She notes that close contact between those onboard—while boarding, in the aisles, and near the lavatories—allows exposure to the air people exhale before it reaches the filters.
So if someone sneezes eight rows away, should you be worried? “Yes,” says Gary Peterson, International Vice President of the Air Division for the Transport Workers Union, which represents mechanics, flight attendants, dispatchers, and other airline employees. “The particles have to get into the system to be filtered. There’s no doubt the systems today are far superior than in the past. But the first step to cabin safety is stopping the person who is [COVID-19] positive from getting onboard.”
Experts say two other components are critical for breathing cleaner air in the skies: proper aircraft cleansing, particularly of surfaces near ventilation systems, and access to personal protective equipment, especially face masks."

My son is a specialist essential worker who is required to travel by air. He reports that passengers on his flights are handed face masks on boarding but many do not wear them. He wears his own mask from terminal entry to exit and avoids aircraft toilets.

You may argue fine points of air filtering but, on public transport including planes, the essential is that you are exposed to close personal contact for extended periods.

On a personal note.... I avoid shopping centres. We obtain supplies by online order and delivery to our house.


Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:16

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:16
From what I was told, When smoking was banned on aircraft, the aircon filtration systems were changed from fresh outside supply air, to recirculating via filters.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: axle - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:22

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:22
Man!!!, only on good ol exploroz can you have a topic go from inexperienced people towing, to bloody aircon filtration on planes . lol.

Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:57

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:57
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That is the great thing about this forum Axle. It's just like sitting around a campfire. lol
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Jarse - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:50

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:50
Allan,
Flight attendants know very little about the cabin air system, so I wouldn't class any of her opinion as credible as far as this discussion goes. She's advocating testing and preventing infected persons from getting onboard, which is the only way to stop it.

Of course there's a risk of catching Covid in any confined space, not just an aeroplane. If you are on an aeroplane I'd suggest it's actually less, because the natural flow of air in the cabin is from around the overhead lockers and gasper vents to the bottom, and exits via the sidewall vents near the floor into the baggage hold. So there's a natural cycle of taking the air away from the passengers downwards, rather than spreading it around. Some of that air is recycled, and any that is goes through HEPA filtration (well, on my plane) before being mixed with conditioned bleed air and pumped back into the cabin.

The huge turnover of cabin air is clearly a primary reason why there have been less than 50 cases caught from being on an aeroplane.

It's good that your son wears a mask. It can only help. We don't wear masks on the flight deck, but generally do when in the cabin for a dunny visit. Unfortunately, we face a few 'Karens from Bunnings' who think they know better and refuse to wear a mask. Unless the government legislated masks for air travel, then the only thing we can do is reseat them away from others (if there's room).

The reality is that you're more likely to catch Covid in day-to-day life than you will on an aeroplane :)

Hey Macca, the air system on the aircraft has always been a combined engine bleed and recirculation system. So, the "fresh" air has been through one, or more compressor stages of the engine before making its way to the air cycle machines to be cooled and sent off to the cabin zones. The only change since smoking was banned is all the nicotine and tar-clogged valves needed a lot less maintenance than they used to :) And the crew breathe easier *cough* *cough* :D
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 14:04

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 14:04
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Jarse, thank you for that. I'll be careful to not mention your name to any flight attendants! lol
Interesting that you do wear a mask when in the cabin, but of course you are not sitting in a 'pure' air flow at that time, as are the passengers.
It is possible that some of the regional and private airlines that my son travels on do not have the sophisticated ventilation systems of major aircraft. And anyway, as you say, "It can only help".

I am in a high-risk category and exercising extreme care. Obviously, it has worked so far.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Jarse - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 15:04

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 15:04
Hi Allan,
I used to fly regional turboprops for an airline with a red kangaroo on its tail. They do have HEPA filters fitted. I couldn't say about other types in different airlines. I'm now on the B737, which does have them also.

The mask wearing for crew was mandated by our medical department. That's part of their risk management strategy for staff. Interestingly, we breathe pretty much the same air in the flight deck as the forward cabin (after it's been processed) without masks.

It's a good idea to protect yourself, especially if you're at risk (i am, too). I don't take any chances. I wear a mask in all public areas, especially the terminals and shopping centres.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 15:20

Monday, Oct 26, 2020 at 15:20
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Jarse, I have worked all my life in hazardous environments...... chemical process and oil & gas industries. Risk management was certainly elemental but individuals can also practice 'risk minimisation'. That is what I and apparently you also do.
It has kept me safe over many years, so perhaps you may forgive me for being cautious about aero travel.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Rojac - Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:36

Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:36
Justing waiting for the police to have a blitz on the GCM of the car/van packages on the road. By having a look at a lot of vans lately, and then what they are being towed with, I would suspect that a lot wouldn't pass.

When I was looking at vans, the sales people weren't entirely honest when advised what you can legally tow, nor advise that one needs to take into account the weight when loaded, water/gas/gear plus the kerb weight rather than the tare weight of the car needs to be considered.








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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 20:24

Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 20:24
"nor advise that one needs to take into account the weight when loaded, water/gas/gear plus the kerb weight rather than the tare weight of the car needs to be considered."

I don't intend to demean you, Rojac, but this is basic knowledge. People who intend to tow should know this and I think the only way that can be done is through a properly constructed "licence to tow" addition to a drivers licence.
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Follow Up By: Rojac - Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 20:51

Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 20:51
Basic knowledge is like common sense, lacking, you are making the assumption that all must possess this basic knowledge, you’d be surprised, salesmen will do whatever to sell their product

Recently in NSW the authorities had a caravan blitz, set up a pull in with portable scales, a dozen cars and vans were stopped and stopped from going further due to the GCM being exceeded. The vans were on the side of the stop and the drivers w left to arrange for legal tows.

Yes I agree that there should be a seperate licence endorsement
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Oct 30, 2020 at 22:10

Friday, Oct 30, 2020 at 22:10
Hi Rojac,

No, I wasn't assuming that everyone had this basic knowledge. I was trying to say that everyone SHOULD have it and probably the best way to do that would be via a properly constructed towing licence, which we seem to agree on.

And you're 100% correct, the van sales people are often either inadvertently misleading, ignorant of rules and terminology or deliberately deceptive. One would hope the latter is the great minority, but the first two, I think, are distressingly common.

The caravan industry is self regulated. With shonky builds, shonky weights etc apparently allowed by self regulation, I think that should finish and regulation should revert to state and/or federal authorities.

As an example, my van had a manufacturers stated and plated tare of 1300kg. I was always overweight when travelling. When I stripped it to the requirements of the ADR definition of tare for caravans and had it weighed, it was 1800kg. I have since had an engineered ATM and GTM upgrade, so now I'm legal.

Also, it came out of the factory with a numberplate location that never ever complied with ADRs. The visibility from all angles did not comply, yet the manufacturer was allowed to self-certify that it complied. I only found out about it when I was pulled up for it (and nothing else) by Highway Patrol. I have had to fix that at my expense, which was relatively trivial, but no-one should have to do that.

IMO the caravan industry, including licences and towing, needs a dose of the ABC's 4 Corners, which perhaps would lead to some corrective action.

Cheers
FrankP

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Reply By: Member - Trevor_H - Tuesday, Nov 17, 2020 at 10:11

Tuesday, Nov 17, 2020 at 10:11
Buyers beware. These scammers don't have the van they sell you, the vans are at other reputable dealers.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10161908655174988&id=72924719987
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