IFS and its bad wrap.

Very good point.
I have a Jackaroo and as I don't do any serious 4wding but I am happy with the performance on rough tracks. I must say that although I did a bit of research on it I still bought a 4wd with IFS because it is my first 4wd and the fact it drives well on sealed roads it is just as good on dirt( and most times the dirt road only has corrugations). I think as long as you have a little bit of articulation on the rear any 4WD is very capable of road. I personally havent got a lot of knowledge on the subject as I am a NEWBIE but of all the off road driving I have done I never had her on three wheels so bad it had to drop a long way to the ground.I dont think a lot of the people who look on this site are into serious rockhopping and so I say IFS, IFS, IFS, OI, OI, OI.

Sparkie(IE not Y) ;-)

Alex ... most IFS 4bys will handle a moderate track with no mods.

I agree with you, unless you're into seriously hard stuff an IFS Cruiser, Prado, Pajero, Jackaroo, Pathfinder, etc., will handle most terrain. All comes down to the driver's skill and knowing the vehicles limits.

I have an IFS Jackaroo and have only had it stuck once, in extremely soft sand. In that situation, live axle v IFS would have been irrelevant.

The IFS Jack has never let me down even on tracks where I had doubts about my own ability. Commonsense is the key.

You know the old saying ... something along the lines of "a good tradesmen never blames his tools".

Alex:

i couldn't agree with you more... i've had the 100GXL with the solid axle and now i have the IFS .. and unless you're into extreme stuff then the difference is minimal and more than made up for by the improvement in ride and handling...

steve

Too true Alex. It's only on extreme driving where a solid axle shows any advantage over IFS & for 99% of drivers it doesn't matter. IFS has the advantage though when it comes to road holding & comfort. Take a ride in a 100 series or Prado in out back Oz and you would feel how far the solid axle is behind.
Some of the IFS however do leave themselves a little unprotected & look like they could sustain damage when it gets rough.
Cheers Craig
HZJ105 (solid axle)

I will agree with some of your points , but how soft is soft ? If you are going to go off road once a year , it dosn't matter . The people who are screaming are people like myself who see thats happening down the line . I have probably 1 to 2 years of my 80 series left and willl then upgrade to the solid 100 series , after than , my only hope is that there will be a kit available to get rid of the IFS and adapt a Solid axle front end .

I know this is goint to upset some of you , But I dont care if ifs is better on the road , I didnt buy a 4by to drive it on the street . I also am not faised what people want in a 4by , who are never going to take off road .

I also hate that people, excuse a company like Toyota, for not at least making a option , solid or IFS

In my eyes they still have lost sight of the big picture , of why they became number one .

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, Just rmember that this is only my opinion. And like yourselfves I am entitled to it

"This is rubbish providing a few simple bolt on mods are made."

Seems to me that says it all.

You shouldn't have to.

Hi Alex,

Whilst I have previously owned an IFS 4WD, my last 2 were live front axles. One reason I didn't buy a 100 series 4.2TD was the fact it had IFS. Now, I fully achnowledge that IFS gives noteably better on-road handling, but that comes at the cost of off-road ability.

An IFS vehicle will handle off-road tracks very well, but at the end of the day they will not go as far as a live axle (in similair vehicles). Also, take the 100 series as an example (it was the one I seriously looked at), it can only safely be raised 35mm from standard. That amount of lift only gets it level compared to the back end! Any live axle can easily be raised 50mm and heaps more with an engineers certificate.

Next issue is wheel travel. OK, a locker will certainly help, but its much better to have two wheels on the deck and spread the load over both wheels than have one wheel in the air and only one wheel driving. A vehicle with no locker, but both front wheels on the deck, will get more traction than a single locked wheel.

Another problem with IFS is the rubber boots on the CV joints. Live axles CV's are fully protected by the axle housing and contained behind a steel socket joint. An IFS is only behind a rubber boot. Tear this boot and the CV will be shot very shortly.

Look, I am NOT trying to "bash IFS into the ground", but an IFS vehicle is at a definite handicap compared to a live axle when the going gets tough. While it will handle moderate tracks well, as the track gets worse its limitations start to show. But don't forget the significant advantages of IFS on the road. Realistically, most 4WD's spend far more time on the blacktop and this is where IFS shines.

Unfortunately you cannot get the best of both worlds with one axle system. IFS for on-road and off-road, but live axles rule once the going gets really rough (but suffer the majority of the time on the blacktop).

Cheers

Captain

good points but In think someone else said it - a company like the big t should offer a choice in their upper specced models its not like the solid front end is discontinued technology for them

You know what I hate?

Someone came up to me today and said "Why don't you buy yourself a real 4WD?"

"My shortie will get further than your ute"

Now, I know that his 45 series shortie would in SOME situations.

However I know that my Rodeo goes off road far more often and to harder places than this w----r ever takes his 45 series!

I think he just says these things to justify why he still drives a rusted, old, uncomfortable piece of crap.

Utemad

On the end of the day no one has said that IFS 4WD's can not go off road. They can, but there is a lack of wheel travel and more damage and wear to components.
It is just that live axle is so much better for a vehicle that should be designed to go off road. Trouble is , most of the Independent suspension equiped vehicles are NOT designed with prolonged off road use in mind. There are too many advantages in live axle set up to mention them all here. Just measure ground clearence on IFS Cruiser front axle. See what i mean. Those bits are just begging to be ripped off by the boulders.
To those people that own IS 4wd's i have one thing to say. You are missing out on a lot of off road capabillity. I am a Toyota fan but i have to say that IFS on the 100 series Cruiser is so flimsy and weak, the only thing i can compare it to(by strenght) is rear coil mounting on GU Nissan Patrol. It is that bad.
Alex, independant suspension belongs on a Commodore, not on all terain vehicle.
By the way, my Commodore could travel "moderate" tracks with independent front with, as you say few bolt on mods. Where does it end ? You have a car with great donk in it, but if you want to rely on lockers to get you trough better carry couple of spare axles with you.

Hi Alex,

I have owned a Troopie with leaf springs then a 90 Series Prado and now a LC 100TD. All were fitted with OME suspension only. I was surprised to find that on the same track the Prado proved to be the most capable when rock hopping, then the Troopie close behind with the LC 100TD third (the LC 100 TD has never seen this track).
Before fitting the OME suspension to the LC 100TD it was really below par. Approach, departure and ramp over clearances were the main problem. Getting that 35mm lift at the front made a huge improvement but it still falls behind the other two.
Having said that it still fits my needs.

Topend

I want the last word...................word.

IFS vS Solid Axle is one of the debates not worth getting into. BUT....

I have owned both (Hilux then Patrol) and now Prado

I classify my 4wding as extreme. Harder than the average person on this site.

I would say my prado will go anywhere i took my patrol and hilux
and it will do it with more comfort 99% of the time
the few meters that the patrol would be more capable is nothing compared to the other 99,270km's the patrol drove where IFS would have been better

There is no shame in winching a few meters because the prado's IFS limited its ability.

I also think most people under estimate IFS and have a phobia about it. if you haven't owned one, or driven one, don't comment.

Lastly, my old sayng is always true.

A good driver will take a bad car further than a bad driver in a good car.

I'll take my prado places a lot of patrol/80 series / solid axle 100 series owners would never get to from sheer experience and know how.

Steve

So what happens in 2-5 yrs IF that long, when there is no option for live axle??

If you cant see the direction of 4wd's heading soft as a 102yr old man, they you are blind!

Bloody pnuematic tyres, they have the major disadvantage of going flat when you least expect it. Look what progress does, we should go back to the days of solid rubber.

Just my ten cents worth

Cheers

PT

Thats a very good old saying of your Steve....LOL

Now, it would be interesting to see how many IFS knockers here have actually owned an IFS 4wd of reasonable build and travel [not lux/jackeroo/ mitsu t bar set ups] and / or have had the confidence in thier ability to 4wd something they think may be inferior.....

I have heard all the lame stories on why its no good, from horse and carts being replaced by cars, to coil vs leaf, EFI vs carby, bias ply vs radial etc etc etc....

I have had some extreme live axle vehicles, and now an IFS coil set up, and given i do alot of 4wding, I still drive mostly road to get there and back, and would never go back to RFS for what I am using the vehicle for.

And with the way 4wd tracks are going, what do you think you will be able to do all the tracks in shorty?

[a hint- any of the softroaders currently available....]

"IFS 4wd of reasonable build and travel [not lux/jackeroo/ mitsu t bar set ups]"

Gee you've just cut out a large percentage of the IFS market!

But I think it depends where you take your car to play. Here in Vic I think a live axel vehicle is more capable over our terrain here. I walk up hills/steps etc that I had to previously give my vehicle a bit of stick. Also I had to modify the front end to get more height, ball joint flip and spacers, cutting bumpstops, cranking torsionbars, etc and all this to fit larger tyres and try to keep wheels on the groud. The one thing that really hasn't been mentioned is that a live axel has better 'ARTICULATION' hence being able to keep those front wheels on the ground. IFS front ends have so limited downward travel hence they cant keep that drooping wheel in contact with the ground. This leads to other problems when that free spinning wheel hits the gound; broken diffs, cv's and I even broke one of my ASIN manual hubs.

Leroy - the one who now keeps both wheels on the ground!

So what are all you hard core anti IFS people going to do when toyota bring out the next cruiser? Looks like its going to be independant all round!!!!
Which would be worse, an all independant LC or a NISSAN???
Tim