Caravan ATM upgrade in Canberra

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 28, 2020 at 17:31

ThreadID: 140688 Views:11373 Replies:7 FollowUps:14

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Keir & Marg

I'm going to get the 2003 Jayco Freedom weighed this weekend in Canberra as I'm a little dubious about the tare mass on the compliance plate. This van was Jayco's most popular model and came in several different internal layouts, as well as either with or without Herron A/C. However, every van we've camped alongside has had identical masses on the compliance plate!! (What a surprise). So, do these masses represent the heaviest version of the van produced, or the lightest??
In searching Exploroz, I've come across one post by Outback kid about getting an ATM upgrade in Canberra but the post gave no contact details and other internet searches have drawn a blank.
So, given that this weekend's weighing may show that we have an overweight van, does anyone know of a business in the ACT that does van ATM upgrades?
Thanks in advance. BTW, I'll post the results of the weighing exercise after Sunday's exercise.

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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2020 at 19:16

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2020 at 19:16

There are a couple of VSCCS Licenced Certifier engineers you could try in the ACT - Gary Hinds Tough Gear Engineering, 0414 543 084 & Paul Johnson, 02 6294 5556. In Queanbeyan - Mario Larocca Marloc Engineering, 0429 993 400.

For a complete NSW list - Vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Scheme Bulletin 01

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Reply By: OzzieCruiser - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2020 at 20:59

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2020 at 20:59

You could try asking Jayco on Yass Road Queanbeyan - if they do not do it they will be able to advise what can.

AnswerID: 633920

Reply By: Geoff K4 - Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 21:20

Thursday, Oct 29, 2020 at 21:20

nothing in ACT but we employed a Vic Roads approved engineer to upgrade our previous van. Not expensive and got an extra 200kgs. Just recently with another purchase, ATM was way over actual as weighed on a local transport weighbridge.
We asked the original manufacturer if they could help with a new compliance plate given the weights supplied. They were fantastic and supplied a new compliance plate which now makes us legal. We didn't overload the caravan, it's just the original weight was way under actual. Perhaps Jayco don't weigh vans coming off the line.

AnswerID: 633938

Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Friday, Oct 30, 2020 at 12:57

Friday, Oct 30, 2020 at 12:57

Thanks Geoff K4,
I reckon Jayco just weighed the first Freedom they ever built and put those numbers on every compliance plate!! Roll on Sunday's weighing. I will post the results of the weighing, and subsequently how I go with the ATM upgrade if required.
Cheers, Keir

FollowupID: 911054

Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Oct 30, 2020 at 21:56

Friday, Oct 30, 2020 at 21:56

ATM is only half the story. You need to ensure your GTM is upgraded as well. It probably would be but you need to ensure your documentation and any new compliance plates reflect it.

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Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 09:44

Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 09:44

Hi Frank P,
I'm sure the weighing expert will give me the whole story with what might need to be done, but as I understand it, this is the appropriate formula: GTM = ATM – tow ball mass. So the ATM is always larger than the GTM, but if the ATM is increased, the GTM must also increase. However, the compliance plate only lists the ATM, and, from what I understand, the registration fees are based on ATM.
Cheers, Keir

FollowupID: 911061

Reply By: Geoff K4 - Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 11:39

Saturday, Oct 31, 2020 at 11:39

Frank P, The Tare on the plate was well under actual (empty) ATM and GTM was upgrade by 200kgs. The axle group was 2900kg so that was the starting point, took off the Ball weight and there we have a upgrade. A document from the manufacturer and new plate to make it legal.

AnswerID: 633952

Reply By: Keir & Marg - Sunday, Nov 01, 2020 at 10:36

Sunday, Nov 01, 2020 at 10:36

For those that are interested, I presented the van at normal travelling weight, but without fresh food in the fridge, without SWMBO's clothes, shoes and handbags, and with an empty water tank, so probably 150 kg less than we would start a long trip. The manufacturer-specified ATM is 1488kg, but we weighed in at 1576kg, so it would seem the manufacturer's tare weight is well above what it should be.
That means that at the start of a trip, we would likely be at about 1715kg, ie 227kg overweight. So, tomorrow morning (Monday) I will ring Jayco as a start to see if they can upgrade the ATM, which I doubt as the van is 2003 and they probably won't be interested. After that, I'll try the suggestions from the replies within this thread. Thank you to all those who responded.
Keir

AnswerID: 633960

Reply By: Keir & Marg - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2020 at 11:38

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2020 at 11:38

A further update in case anyone is interested. It's an expensive paperwork exercise, and then physical modifications on top of that. The engineer's fee to investigate the van, conduct a FEA (finite element analysis) and provide a report is $850. Depending on the size of the upgrade, there are then mods which could involve a new axle set (about $1800), chassis strengthening, etc. Then, there's another $850 to prepare the paperwork to be submitted to the authorities for a new compliance plate to be made up. My problem is that I could transfer almost everything from the van to the car (and not exceed the GVM of the Pajero); this would allow me to fill the water tank and the gas bottles so I can go away and still be within the ATM, but the "liveability" of the van is severely compromised.
Thanks to everyone who responded.
Keir

AnswerID: 633980

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 14:54

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 14:54

Keir, Your confusing Tare and ATM. Tare is empty without gas bottles or water.
To put things simply; ATM is weight of Van NOT coupled to the tow vehicle.
GTM is weight of van Coupled to Tow Vehicle.
GCM is the total weight of the Tow vehicle and Caravan coupled together. This weight is determined by what the Manufacturer has specified in your vehicle book.
Hope this makes sense.

FollowupID: 911097

Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:05

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:05

Hi Geoff K4,
I don't think I'm confused at all. I'm well aware that tare is the empty weight of the van with EMPTY gas bottles and empty water tanks. The GTM is the Gross Trailer Mass=Maximum Trailer Weight when attached to the vehicle, i.e ATM-BTM. So the GTM is the weight borne by the caravans axle(s), and the TBM gets added to the vehicle weight to give GVM.
My problem is that the Tare on the compliance plate (1188)kg) is way below the actual Tare of the van. The only way for me to keep below the ATM (1188+300=1488kg) is to travel with no gas, no water, no gas BBQ, no TV and no camping chairs or table, etc which makes for pretty austere camping!!

FollowupID: 911098

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:21

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:21

Your words not mine......The manufacturer-specified ATM is 1488kg, but we weighed in at 1576kg, so it would seem the manufacturer's tare weight is well above what it should be.

FollowupID: 911099

Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 11:46

Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 11:46

Geoff K4,
Yes, the Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM) is well above 1488kg (ie 1576kg) but my weighing of our consumables on board is about 195kg, so that means the actual Tare of the van is 1576-195=1381kg, well above the compliance plate figure of 1188kg. In effect, that means we only have a total of 107kg of consumables that can be carried on board, whereas the compliance plate incorrectly says we can carry 300kg of consumables. So, if I fill the water tank (90kg) and fill two gas bottles (9kg), I only have 8kg left, so I can't even put a slab of beer in the fridge!!

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:40

Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:40

Kier,

I think you will find a full 9 kg gas bottle weighs around 30 kgs, therefore a full 4.5 kg gas bottle weighs around 15 kgs. So if you have two full 9 kg gas bottles you have around 60 kgs and if you have 2 full 4.5 kg gas bottles, then you have around 30 kgs.

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Follow Up By: Gramps - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:52

Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:52

Macca,

I'd suggest a full 9kg gas bottle weighs around 17kg definitely not 30kg.

Regards

FollowupID: 911108

Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:29

Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:29

Macca/Gramps,
The empty gas bottles, if fitted by the manufacturer, are part of the original tare weight of the van on the compliance plate. The gas within the bottles when filled, is considered consumable weight.
Cheers, Keir

FollowupID: 911109

Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:49

Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:49

I don't know the answer to this but, if you were able to have it checked by a Vic roads approved engineer it would be a lot easier and cheaper. Is it possible?? Would a Vic engineer be able to do this on an ACT registered van??

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 17:42

Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 17:42

Yes Gramps you are correct, I don’t know where I got those numbers from. I think I had it in the back of my mind because I weighed mine, (I have two gas bottles), and added the two together to come up with around 30 kgs. I have just checked my weight spreadsheet and it is 15.6 kgs for each bottle.

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