Caravan ATM upgrade in Canberra
Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 28, 2020 at 17:31
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140688
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Keir & Marg
I'm going to get the 2003 Jayco Freedom weighed this weekend in
Canberra as I'm a little dubious about the tare mass on the compliance plate. This van was Jayco's most popular model and came in several different internal layouts, as
well as either with or without Herron A/C. However, every van we've camped alongside has had identical masses on the compliance plate!! (What a surprise). So, do these masses represent the heaviest version of the van produced, or the lightest??
In searching Exploroz, I've come across one post by Outback kid about getting an ATM upgrade in
Canberra but the post gave no contact details and other internet searches have drawn a blank.
So, given that this weekend's weighing may show that we have an overweight van, does anyone know of a business in the ACT that does van ATM upgrades?
Thanks in advance. BTW, I'll post the results of the weighing exercise after Sunday's exercise.
Reply By: Keir & Marg - Sunday, Nov 01, 2020 at 10:36
Sunday, Nov 01, 2020 at 10:36
For those that are interested, I presented the van at normal travelling weight, but without fresh food in the fridge, without SWMBO's clothes, shoes and handbags, and with an empty
water tank, so probably 150 kg less than we would start a long trip. The manufacturer-specified ATM is 1488kg, but we weighed in at 1576kg, so it would seem the manufacturer's tare weight is
well above what it should be.
That means that at the start of a trip, we would likely be at about 1715kg, ie 227kg overweight. So, tomorrow morning (Monday) I will ring Jayco as a start to see if they can upgrade the ATM, which I doubt as the van is 2003 and they probably won't be interested. After that, I'll try the suggestions from the replies within this thread. Thank you to all those who responded.
Keir
AnswerID:
633960
Reply By: Keir & Marg - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2020 at 11:38
Tuesday, Nov 03, 2020 at 11:38
A further update in case anyone is interested. It's an expensive paperwork exercise, and then physical modifications on top of that. The engineer's fee to investigate the van, conduct a FEA (finite element analysis) and provide a report is $850. Depending on the size of the upgrade, there are then mods which could involve a new axle set (about $1800), chassis strengthening, etc. Then, there's another $850 to prepare the paperwork to be submitted to the authorities for a new compliance plate to be made up. My problem is that I could transfer almost everything from the van to the car (and not exceed the GVM of the Pajero); this would allow me to fill the
water tank and the gas bottles so I can go away and still be within the ATM, but the "liveability" of the van is severely compromised.
Thanks to everyone who responded.
Keir
AnswerID:
633980
Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 14:54
Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 14:54
Keir, Your confusing Tare and ATM. Tare is empty without gas bottles or water.
To put things simply; ATM is weight of Van NOT coupled to the tow vehicle.
GTM is weight of van Coupled to Tow Vehicle.
GCM is the total weight of the Tow vehicle and Caravan coupled together. This weight is determined by what the Manufacturer has specified in your vehicle book.
Hope this makes sense.
FollowupID:
911097
Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:05
Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:05
Hi Geoff K4,
I don't think I'm confused at all. I'm
well aware that tare is the empty weight of the van with EMPTY gas bottles and empty water tanks. The GTM is the Gross Trailer Mass=Maximum Trailer Weight when attached to the vehicle, i.e ATM-BTM. So the GTM is the weight borne by the caravans axle(s), and the TBM gets added to the vehicle weight to give GVM.
My problem is that the Tare on the compliance plate (1188)kg) is way below the actual Tare of the van. The only way for me to keep below the ATM (1188+300=1488kg) is to travel with no gas, no water, no gas BBQ, no TV and no camping chairs or table, etc which makes for pretty austere camping!!
FollowupID:
911098
Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:21
Wednesday, Nov 04, 2020 at 17:21
Your words not
mine......The manufacturer-specified ATM is 1488kg, but we weighed in at 1576kg, so it would seem the manufacturer's tare weight is
well above what it should be.
FollowupID:
911099
Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 11:46
Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 11:46
Geoff K4,
Yes, the Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM) is
well above 1488kg (ie 1576kg) but my weighing of our consumables on board is about 195kg, so that means the actual Tare of the van is 1576-195=1381kg,
well above the compliance plate figure of 1188kg. In effect, that means we only have a total of 107kg of consumables that can be carried on board, whereas the compliance plate incorrectly says we can carry 300kg of consumables. So, if I fill the
water tank (90kg) and fill two gas bottles (9kg), I only have 8kg left, so I can't even put a slab of beer in the fridge!!
FollowupID:
911102
Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:40
Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:40
Kier,
I think you will find a full 9 kg gas bottle weighs around 30 kgs, therefore a full 4.5 kg gas bottle weighs around 15 kgs. So if you have two full 9 kg gas bottles you have around 60 kgs and if you have 2 full 4.5 kg gas bottles, then you have around 30 kgs.
Macca.
FollowupID:
911107
Follow Up By: Gramps - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:52
Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 13:52
Macca,
I'd suggest a full 9kg gas bottle weighs around 17kg definitely not 30kg.
Regards
FollowupID:
911108
Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:29
Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:29
Macca/Gramps,
The empty gas bottles, if fitted by the manufacturer, are part of the original tare weight of the van on the compliance plate. The gas within the bottles when filled, is considered consumable weight.
Cheers, Keir
FollowupID:
911109
Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:49
Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 15:49
I don't know the answer to this but, if you were able to have it checked by a Vic roads approved engineer it would be a lot easier and cheaper. Is it possible?? Would a Vic engineer be able to do this on an ACT registered van??
FollowupID:
911110
Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 17:42
Thursday, Nov 05, 2020 at 17:42
Yes Gramps you are correct, I don’t know where I got those numbers from. I think I had it in the back of my mind because I weighed
mine, (I have two gas bottles), and added the two together to come up with around 30 kgs. I have just checked my weight spreadsheet and it is 15.6 kgs for each bottle.
Macca.
FollowupID:
911112
Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Friday, Nov 06, 2020 at 12:58
Friday, Nov 06, 2020 at 12:58
Hi Geoff K4,
It's a good thought. They are all supposed to be working to the same rules.
Keir
FollowupID:
911126
Follow Up By: Geoff K4 - Friday, Nov 06, 2020 at 14:37
Friday, Nov 06, 2020 at 14:37
Keir, Just an idea as our VAn didn't need any Mods just a new stick on label and certificate. WE used Nik Lawry in
Bendigo Mob; 0400874792
FollowupID:
911127
Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Saturday, Nov 07, 2020 at 12:50
Saturday, Nov 07, 2020 at 12:50
Thanks Geoff K4,
I'll follow that up in a couple of weeks when we get back from a little trip to
Coffs Harbour, leaving tomorrow.
Cheers, Keir
FollowupID:
911150