Battery charge

Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 24, 2020 at 22:07
ThreadID: 140783 Views:2667 Replies:11 FollowUps:44
Has anybody heard of putting a flat battery in a hole in the ground fill in hole leave overnight pull out in morning and being charged. Cheers
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2020 at 22:14

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2020 at 22:14
No, reggy 2. I'd be interested to hear the science behind that one.

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Follow Up By: Joe M8 - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2020 at 23:08

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2020 at 23:08
Would that hole have to be on flat ground ?
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Nov 24, 2020 at 23:10

Tuesday, Nov 24, 2020 at 23:10
Only if it had potential.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:29

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:29
There's an undercurrent of cynicism here, reggy, for which I apologise.

Introduction of temperature to the equation, ie warm sand (below) has altered my reaction and catalysed a re-think.

We were poles apart initially, but the plates have shifted, my wires are crossed, I sense excessive resistance despite the shorts and now my doubts are terminal.

:-)

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Reply By: Keith B2 - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 01:13

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 01:13
I watched an episode of Aussie Gold Hunters where two aboriginal guys had a flat battery. So they dug a hole, put the battery in it and back filled with hot sand from around the camp fire. Cranked the engine the next morning.
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Follow Up By: Glenn C5 - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 06:44

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 06:44
Yes Keith. I saw that episode as well. Might be worth a try some time.
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Follow Up By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 09:35

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 09:35
Hi Keith that was the story I was told too I thought it was a bit over the top so this is why I put the question up
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 12:51

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 12:51
That works to some extent, if the battery is not quite performing because it’s cold.
People think cold kills batteries, it doesn’t just they don’t perform . CCA’s are usually measured at 20c
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Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Sunday, Nov 29, 2020 at 17:18

Sunday, Nov 29, 2020 at 17:18
Well if I was desperate then I would give it a go.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Nov 29, 2020 at 21:10

Sunday, Nov 29, 2020 at 21:10
I’ve never buried a battery, as described, but did “cook” one over a small fire, back in the mid ‘70’s.

One of my companions had managed to get our Dodge truck stuck, in a sheeted creek crossing. The only other vehicle we had was a Massey Ferguson 65 tractor at the camp, not renowned for its early morning starts.

Next morning, built a small fire under the sump of said 65, and kept it going while we had brekkie. For those unfamiliar with these old workhorses, the fuel tank & battery sit above the engine, so the heat from the fire heated all three, sump, battery & fuel. Not sure if diesel waxing was an issue back in those days, but I was pleased to hear that old Perkins fire up.

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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 05:44

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 05:44
When I was a kid in the 70's my mates mother would put D cell, C cell batteries in a luke warm oven when they went flat from us playing with toys that gave them a boost it worked well. I think she done it twice before the batteries were thrown out. So may be warming up a car battery would help if it's not totally stuffed.

Also seen on a survival show way back when where they started a 4 cylinder car from memory using 2 dolphin torch batteries in wired series you only get one go at it.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 08:45

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 08:45
My mother did that too in the 50's:)
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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 13:25

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 13:25
I saw that too and wondered how real it was. Did it really fix up the battery or did they get a jump start from the film crew...
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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 05:11

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 05:11
I think starting a 4 cylinder car with 2 Dolphin torch batteries is stretching it a bit.
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Reply By: qldcamper - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 08:10

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 08:10
A cold battery that is weak will work better if warmed up a bit. It does not charge the battery, just allows it to deliver what charge it has easier.

A flat battery is a flat battery, nothing will come out if there is nothing in there no matter what temp it is.
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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 09:43

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 09:43
That is why chargers have temperature compensation, it takes a higher voltage to charge a battery as its temperature rises due to its terminal voltage rising.

My Optima for instance will be sitting at 12.7V on a warmish morning, on a cold morning it might be down to 12.5V. Heating up the battery makes the chemical reaction more efficient.

"The standard rating for batteries is at room temperature 25 degrees C (about 77 F). At approximately -22 degrees F (-30 C), battery Ah capacity drops to 50%. At freezing, capacity is reduced by 20%. Capacity is increased at higher temperatures – at 122 degrees F, battery capacity would be about 12% higher."
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Reply By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 14:41

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 14:41
Apparently helps to re-inflate tyres also if your pump fails.

Aborigines have a great sense of humour. What's the bet that they buried one of THESE with the battery?
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 17:38

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 17:38
Aborigines have a great sense of humour.

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 17:42

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 17:42
Congratulations on the completely unnecessary but not unexpected stereotyping David.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 20:27

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 20:27
Think you might find the members of the community found this very funny/clever, unlike your self who seems to be a member of the perpetually offended society.
Rather than sitting behind a key board nit picking why don't you spend your time looking into serious
problems in the community such as STD's. Or does that mean you might have to cross swords with the
industry hierarchy. You have a nice day. Most of your mob won't.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 20:35

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 20:35
Yes it was especially witty and hilarious - like many of your similar race-baited posts. Don't want to drag this thread into yet another s-fight but I'll be gobsmacked the first time you make similar comments about problems in our own culture.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 21:09

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 21:09
I wondered how long it would take you to shout Racism. The last bastion of a lost cause.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 21:14

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 21:14
I'll admit I've never found redneck "humour" funny, or witty. The day calling out racism and ignorance becomes a lost cause is the day we'll know civilisation is doomed.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 07:45

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 07:45
Spent many years working in remote/very remote Aboriginal communities. They have a sense of humour, just like us. Nothing racist or derogatory about the photo. You need to lighten up before jumping in and declaring someone is racist just because you didnt get the joke.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:34

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:34
I got the so-called "joke" Bigfish, the intent was obvious. Perhaps you'd like to explain why it was funny? I'm also aware of previous similarly tenoured comments from the same source, are you? Interesting to hear Kerry O'Keefe on radio this morning talking about why he got started in cricket. Dysfunctional family, alcohol problems etc. The not uncommon hidden problems in our "white" society which some people appear totally oblivious to while taking every opportunity to cast aspersions elsewhere.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:49

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:49
"I'm also aware of previous similarly tenoured comments from the same source"
Don't suppose you've got the balls to quote these comments.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:53

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:53
Don't suppose you have the balls to say what you were implying with your image.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:57

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 09:57
Maybe you could explain what the joke is and it's obvious intent. I'm starting to think it went over your head.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:02

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:02
I couldn't care less what Davids other posts are. If they are blatantly racist/derogatory/sexist etc.etc...then he will get called out!! If you read racism in this joke then I feel sorry for you....obviously you have not had much interaction with Aboriginal people.

P.S ...My Aboriginal son in law saw the joke as well. He just laughed. He is a Noongar man from East of Perth.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:13

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:13
The intent of his post was both clear and unnecessary in the context Bigfish, although I see you're both keen not to mention exactly what the intent was. It's heart warming that you "feel sorry" for me though. It's old ground but your guess as to my interactions with indigenous people has been covered before on Exploroz. Suffice to say your guess is a as accurate as Trump's claim of a rigged election. Good to see your sil had a laugh.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:17

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:17
Making public claims of racism against a person is a serious offence. You might want have a think about that before you burst into print.

Here's a clue re the intent. You see that little yellow road sign. It means "Speed Hump"
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 05:23

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 05:23
I didn't interpret the statement as funny but rather as a statement of fact.
All my personal first Australian friends do have a sense of humour & if someone told me I had one, I would take that as a compliment. Anyone reading racism into that is abusing the legislation.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:28

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:28
Don't want to rake over old coals but what legislation is that exactly Blown4by?
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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 17:55

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 17:55
Hi Bazooka: The legislation I was referring to, was that making it illegal to abuse someone because of their race or discriminate against them based on their colour, country of birth, what they look like, etc. Sometimes, those protected by that legislation, attempt to use it as a 'weapon' against others, such as when a decision didn't go in their favour or an outcome wasn't the one they wanted, despite the rules being applied equally & fairly across all those involved, regardless of their background. I'm sure you've heard the comment: "You are only picking on me because I'm black" & other similar comments that have no basis. That is what I mean by an abuse of the legislation. When someone protected by it, uses it as a threat against others in an attempt to get a decision reversed, otherwise they may find themselves hit with a racism claim.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 18:12

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 18:12
I'd suggest your example is FAR rarer than unprosecuted racial discrimination/abuse Blow4by. Probably the best (only) example I can think of wrt misuse of the law was the QUT case. Fortunately the law proved its robustness and fairness and the Fed Court threw out the case. As one of the student's legal reps said at the time - it should never have got to that stage. Not Gillian Triggs' finest hour.
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Reply By: blue one - Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 18:28

Wednesday, Nov 25, 2020 at 18:28
Thanks everyone, very funny
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Reply By: Croc099 - Thursday, Nov 26, 2020 at 20:59

Thursday, Nov 26, 2020 at 20:59
I've heard of this. I tried it but it didn't work.
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Nov 26, 2020 at 23:29

Thursday, Nov 26, 2020 at 23:29
When I was young and broke, I often had to pour hot water on the battery to get it to kick the engine over. It sounds like the same strategy, heating the battery. It doesn't charge it.
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:09

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 10:09
It is possibly like the Aspro fix. If you try a battery to start a motor there are times where you will not get a second response from the battery if you retry a second time right after the first. The oldtimers often used to advise that if you put an Aspro in each cell then that would charge it enough to have a second go. The truth of the matter was that it took a bit of time to find and add the Aspros. If you had waited the same time as it took to do your Aspro fix you would have got the same response from the battery without wasting the Aspros.

As the others said, by raising the temperature of the battery a little and adding the necessary waiting period you can get a second go from the battery.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 12:46

Friday, Nov 27, 2020 at 12:46
IE, all it needed was the good lie down, not the Bex :-)
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Reply By: GerryG - Monday, Nov 30, 2020 at 19:00

Monday, Nov 30, 2020 at 19:00
I was stuck out in the desert one morning with 8 paying passengers and a flat battery! I'd heard somewhere that if you put a cup of water into a billy, then drain each cell into the billy as well, then put it on the fire and bring it just to the boil.
Refill the cells, reinstall the battery then wait 10 minutes. If it's going to work, you'll only get one chance to start the vehicle. One chance was all I needed and it worked!
It impressed the passengers, but I did pick up a new battery later in the day.






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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Nov 30, 2020 at 19:03

Monday, Nov 30, 2020 at 19:03
.
Gerry, I'm guessing that it cleaned the tea stains out of the billy too. lol

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 06:02

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 06:02
That's a good idea I like but these days most batteries are sealed so soon to be a good idea lost due to technology. One step forward two back.
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Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 11:17

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 11:17
There’s little tricks to get a go out of a suss battery, as discussed.
There’s also plenty of myths.
Such as don’t store batteries on concrete. I presume this one comes from the cool temperature of the concrete. Cool doesn’t hurt as said previously. But when I was retailing batteries, I had rubber mat under stock at floor level, but I only did that to keep the myth believing customers happy.
Had a Harley owner that put a piece of rubber under his side stand, reckoned the battery went flat if he didn’t??
I often advised farmers etc after needing to jump start something, to put the battery on the charger for a good charge. A lot of the time the tractorute or whatever would start ok for days or weeks after , so seem ok. As after a lot of testing over the years I don’t believe the vehicle alternator will fully charge the battery.
I had a truck operator that was complaining about poor battery performance. He had trucks and loaders that weren’t in constant use , I went thru the whole yard any of the infrequently used batteries were all under the 12.4 volts that is regarded as minimum voltage. Some would start , just. His constant used gear batteries were fine.
The modern sealed batteries, can’t be tested with a hydrometer, which is the best way to determine if a lead acid is fully charged. My testing over the years also revealed that most automatic/float chargers don’t get the battery right up either.
Another thing about batteries, is , most of us hate buying them ( we seem to think they should last forever) when that are quite often only a small part of our budget. Especially when you look at farming operations, spending 100’s of thousands on chemical,fertiliser, fuel and machinery. A couple of thousand on batteries is a drop in the ocean.
I had one of our vehicles batteries get a bit sad recently, first up I was having that aversion to making the purchase, but then thought oh well it’s 5 years old , which is a reasonable age, so I got over it and put a new one in .
Cheers all
It’s an interesting discussion.
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Follow Up By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 11:34

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 11:34
Hi time frame is debatable I have had my car from 2013 August twin battery's they are still starting after the car sat idle for 2 weeks brought from new
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Follow Up By: Member - Jim S1 - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 12:25

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 12:25
Not sure about storing batteries on concrete ...... maybe old leaky ones didn’t go well with the concrete.
Do know that canvas on concrete is NOT recommended. Attracts moisture, and then mildew, and then .... good luck !

Cheers
Jim
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 14:12

Tuesday, Dec 01, 2020 at 14:12
.
Shane, Re the "rubber under the side stand". That Harley owner lived next to me. He went off to Europe for 3 months and came back to a flat battery. I put him up to the "rubber trick"........
He never had the problem again. lol
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 05:31

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 05:31
Only problem using a hydrometer is that it doesn't tell you how the battery will perform when a load is applied.
When I was a kid the Eveready dry cell batteries were made using cardboard to hold the contents. When the batteries became discharged to the extent the valve radio would no longer work, the old timers would leave the battery on the side of the wood stove overnight & the radio would work for a few more days.
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 09:00

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 09:00
G’day blown4by
A hydrometer certainly can’t tell you everything. But it tells cell by cell what the charge state is , if there’s a flat or “dead” cell it is found , then battery is stuffed .
But anyway it’s rare now to be able to use a hydrometer, mostly sealed maintenance free, which is great you don’t have to top up electrolyte, and they’re generally a lot cleaner.
Cheers
Shane
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 15:14

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 15:14
Quote "Such as don’t store batteries on concrete. I presume this one comes from the cool temperature of the concrete. "

This comes from the days before plastic cases. The hard rubber cases tended to be a little bit porus. The concrete floors were a little porus as well. If the batteries were placed on the concrete floor you could bet phantom currents passing from cell to cell, these tended to cause problems discharging the batteries. The only problem since the 40s when the newer batteries came in is the old problem has developed into the old wives tale applied to the modern battery

The problem was real way back then but there are not too many who remember the old batteries.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 15:40

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 15:40
.
It always was a myth with no foundation.
Rubbing Snake Oil on the battery could be a good preventative. lol
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 16:14

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 16:14
Alan, if you were around in those good old days you would find it was not a myth. Some of the wooden batteries suppered the same thing.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 17:05

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 17:05
.
Errr Peter, you may be wise to do your homework before giving opinion.
I certainly WAS around in those good old days. Even before the "40's". Were you?

Certainly the wooden celled batteries leaked electrolyte. You would avoid placing them on concrete, or anything else valued, because of their corrosive deposits.

In any case, I cannot postulate a circuit path from external electrolyte that would produce a current path in relation to the opposing plates and so cause any cell discharge. It is not enough to state that it can happen without being able to demonstrate just how it happens in a scientific manner.

In short, it always was a myth perhaps born from a housekeeping perspective.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Blown4by - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 18:24

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 18:24
Hi shane r1. I agree maintenance free batteries do stay cleaner, especially the sulphation that used to build up on the terminals. Personally though, I prefer a battery with removable caps. That way I can add deionised or distilled water as neccessary, ensuring the cells are covered in electrolyte at all times. I usually get 6 or 7 years life out of my batteries & don't find checking them & topping them up a chore. Looking through the opaque case, I've seen plenty of sealed batteries where the tops of the plates are dry, due to electrolyte loss via the breather, causing extra heat thus shortening the battery life. MF is probably a good compromise for the average motorist who never lifts the bonnet & even if they were adventurous enough to do so, wouldn't know what to do under there anyway.



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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 19:23

Friday, Dec 18, 2020 at 19:23
Blown,
I agree, the MF’s breath that little bit so most must lose some moisture over time.
But most don’t want to or just don’t check things like batteries, that why most batteries are MF or at least low maintenance these days.
Really you don’t have to look under the bonnet much anymore. Engine’s generally don’t use much oil radiator’s don’t lose fluid . Batteries, etc . Which is great.The reliability of modern vehicles is pretty good.
Not sure on the latest Century batteries, but they had a nice covered up top and probably called low maintenance. But you could lift a cover off and check cells , best of both worlds.
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