Credit Card fraud

Damn! Well did you lose your card? I'm havin' a crownie, join me, can't do much about it now!

Captain,
Have the same fears as yourself, probably too late now but I keep another credit card with $400 limit and only use this on-line. If the bank O.K.'s transactions above this then I have more to come back with, it is also used rarely so keeping track a lot easier. I keep all my other transactions to another card, inlcuding paying bills, etc. Because of this have gotten into the habit of going to bank / post office to pay most bills. Hope all works out well for you, keep us informed. Which Bank???
Rolande

The bank say you can only be out of pocket by $50, I have never put it to the test. Secure sites are OK but in the end there is a person recieving your numbers and all thay need is your card number, name and expiry date and they are away. I don't know how you can avoid this.

Captain,
That's a real bummer, mate.
The bank should cover you for all those dummy transactions; maybe except for $50- (not sure why you should have to pay ANY of it, really).
Did either of you let your card/s out of your sight recently. This can happen if you pay for a meal at a restaraunt (for example) and you put your card on a little silver tray and they take it away to process and bring back the chitty to sign. While it's away they can scan it through a whiz-bang reader and get all the details (PIN etc).
Also, the mongrels have been known to stick a similar gizmo to the front of an ATM, so that it records your PIN when you key it in. Then the ATM seems (to you) to retain your card.....you walk away believing the card has been retained by the bank (cursing cos you've gotta go back tomorrow to get it). In reality, the person waiting behind you or over the road comes along and retrieves the card and the reader device, takes off and spends up big for an hour or 2.
There was another recent scam too where you get a call from "VISA" or M/Card (supposedly, but imposter really). They ask you several questions, including waht are the 3 numbers on the far right side of your card's signature panel. They tell you they are just authenticating that you are the holder of the card. They don't ask you for your PIN. DON'T TELL THEM THE 3 DIGIT NUMBER ON THE BACK!!!

So may mongrels, so few shotguns .....

Good luck

Yes you can avoid that. Use internet banking and pay via direct deposit. It is the safest way by far. Having the limit on the dedicated card means nothing at all. It can be misused just the same. Go direct bank deposit way.

Sorry to hear about the bad experience Captain

This touches on an important topic to us 4WDers travelling Oz,

It seems that using Internet cafes with network connections can be a danger area for travellers when using internet banking or other "secure" websites. It has been reported to me that unscrupulous operators are using software between the terminals in the cafe and their own internet connection to employ key capture and gain access to bank account details and credit card numbers.

Many travellers use internet cafes to do their banking and pay bills ($5 for 15 minutes of internet access is pretty expensive to use just for browsing!). This is a prime area for the capturing of personal details, especially if you are using the shops computer. You have no idea what key capture software is installed on these machines.

This is just the same as the scenario outlined by Roachie above where your credit card is taken out of your sight to be processed in a restaurant. You are relying on the honesty of the business to transmit the info that YOU typed into THEIR computer onto the internet without intercepting it for their own gain. This may also apply where you plug your laptop into a network port in the cafe. You get high speed internet acces but may still have the same issue. The best defense is for the cafe to offer a phone point so that you can use your laptop to directly dialup your own ISP.

My parents are travelling currently and were warned about this by one large cafe operator in Katherine. As a result they now call me and get me to use my direct ISP connection to do any internet banking and just tell me what needs to be done. The secure alternative is to connect to your ISP via laptop and mobile phone but this is either really slow (9.6kbps over GSM) or extremely expensive (2.2 cents per kb over GPRS).

The banks do have good protections on fraudulent transactions over internet ut there is still the hassle associated with proving the fraud, cancelling credit cards, getting new cards etc.

I point this out for the info of forumites who use internet cafes. If at all possible you should have a trusted person do your banking for you using a direct telephone/broadband internet connection or you should use your own direct connection to your ISP via your mobile.

Am happy to answer any queries on this topic for people who are just starting out!

Cheers
Steven

Bad luck but in such an insecure system that the banks give us that relies so heavily on honesty this fraud happens every day. The bank will cover you the same as they cover everyone else....they are used to it....unless they can prove something shonky on your part.

Havent had a credit card for years, use eft mostly and so far havent had a problem, but recently got a debit card for those od items over the phone and things, linked it to an acc of its own and I leave it empty until I want it and transfer funds by phone or internet. I think it has $6 in it at the moment, hope they dont spend it all at once !! Cant you get a statement sent out so you can check it straight away, or download one ?

Sorry to hear bout this Captain, it's getting more and more previlent in these days of internet banking, your not even safe filling up at the servo now and with these dummy card readers they use to get your details, you dont even know they are doing until it's too late. Hope you get satifaction from your bank.

Cheers Baz.

Hi guys,

Sorry to hear about this Captain, but only because you stop transacting online it doesn't mean that somone will not rip off your credit card. There are people that generate card numbers (not very hard at all) and put them through online merchants until they get an approved response code. If approved response code is received it means they generated a correct number.

Of course it's a lengthy process but they can stumble upon anyone's card. What makes it easier are the banks which will usually have a number of digits same on each card so the thiefs only have to generate a limited number of digits and guess an expiry date.

Then lets not mention credit card statements being sent out by the bank and also some receipts (eg petrol stations) which print your entire credit card number. If you throw it out anyone can pick it up.

Cheers,
Tom

G'day mate, sorry to hear of your drama.

I have been on both sides, having had a few dodgy transactions go through my card in the past, and working in an ISP where we had dozens of people who would call up in a similar boat.

You can go to the branch and get them too call up a full statement on their screen. What you require is the transactionID of each dodgy transaction. You then put in a form that forces a charge back on each transaction.

chargebacks take the money frlom the person who put the charge through and issues them a letter with 'please provide proof of billing' Fortunately for the end user, anything but a signed transaction can be near impossible to prove (so even if you did put a secure transaction through a website they have a tough time proving it, hence most secure systems now utilise the 3 digit key on the back of the CC)

Generally this process takes 4-6 weeks and then you get the money back.

There is as much chance some snotty nosed kid working at safeway / a shop somoene has taken a record of the credit card number and sold it on the net. Also, just because a website uses an SSL (Secure Certificate) doesn't mean they are secure.

SSL's just encrypt the details when they are travelling from you to the website.

I 'could' create a website (and a lot of cheap online people do) that takes the Credit card number and store it in a database, or just email this to myself. This can then be processed via an eftpos machine or via an old school swipe machine. this isthe cheap andnasty way of doing things.

Technically an online store 'should' receive the credit card number, and then pass it with the amount directly to the bank via an online merchant system (which all the banks have) which puts the payment through. The online retailer is not allowed to store the CreditCard number and it is only on their system for a few milliseconds. This is how proper online systems work (and this is the system which Explore Oz use i beleive)

To setup something like this costs a lot more, so you can understand a lot of shonky mobs go the el cheap option which puts end users at risk. Unfortunately there is little you can do too check. One system i use is put in a dodgy expiry day (if your card expires in 2005 , make it 2006 on the transaction) if you get a transaction failed message, you know the site is hooked into a bank directly... if it goes through, you know something is sus ;)

I know it is a pain, but it will tkae a few weeks to get the cash back :(

I used to worry about this stuff until I had my wallet stolen overseas and copped about $7000 of charges on a Mastercard before it was stopped.

The total amount was cleared without any hassel or argument from the bank - As a result I am more than comfortable to use credit cards for online transactions now...

It is just a PITA getting cards reissued...

Cheers,
Pete

The banks themselves are often very guilty of allowing private info out.

Last Friday in the mail I received 2 new Citibank Visa cards each with a $20k limit, a letter refusing the applicant a Gold card, and two statements. For people I have never heard of before, but correctly addressed to my residence. Yesterday, I received the 2 new PINs for those cards. So I have credit card numbers, pin numbers, and expiry dates for two $20k accounts.

I did ring through to Citibank on Friday to tell them know they stuffed up and the cards have now been destroyed. I also emailed a complaint through to their privacy officer.

Can you imagine if I was somewhat unscrupulous as to what could have gone on?

PS ... The reason I opened the emails is because Citibank instructed me to do so to find out what was inside. Trusting souls, don't you think?

A mate of mine stupidly left his card sitting on the atm after he pulled it out of the machine and rested it on the counter while putting the cash in his wallet.

About $400 was spent on it in the first hour, mostly at Safeway Liquor and the like, before he realised it. Bank put a stop on the card and paid him back no worries. That was with National.

Thanks all for your all thoughts and advice etc... I can now see on-line where some of these transactions are from, one includes Montreal QC, another is "CA" - California???. I still have another ~$1,500 worth to show up. Looks like it was probably some international scammer. Will let you know how I fare once the bill becomes due!!!

Cheers

Captain

Mate all you need to use your credit card is the number and expiry date. It's printed out on 90% of your receipts, ever dropped one on the ground, left it on the top of a bin. Every single person who you buy off get's a copy of it.

Good news is that the reatilers who took the credit card without your signature are liable. You will get your money back. Just go out and get another credit card for the month LOL. I'm sure people will throw them at you if you ask. Then just pay off you old one when you get your money back and cancel it.

The day cant be too far away when the banks shall say to the govt "we are losing too much on these frauds, we want to introduce the ID chip system".
This was prophesied 2000 years ago whereby we shall be required to have the mark of the beast in our forehead or back of the hand and without it no one
shall be able to buy or sell.
The consequences of accepting this was also well spelt out at that time.
Dont say we were not warned.

Its all ready to use when installed. Prince William was said to have been chipped when he was young.
Animals can be chipped & tracked far & wide.
Have a look at the RFID chip. Do a search on Google. Walmart, possibly US's biggest retailer insists it be placed in every shirt & whatever else & no doubt readable at their checkouts & elsewhere.
The technology is far beyond this however.

Not nice Captain!!

Unfortunately there's always some unsavoury person trying to make an easy living off someone else.

Mate I know it can be a bit inconvenient, but I solved the problem the problem before it happened. Had about six of the buggers. Got hold of the scissors and cut them all up. Paid off the cards and now if I don't have the cash, I don't buy it.

Bloody great, for the first time in my life I don't owe nobody nuthing.

However, still sorry it happened to you mate.

Cheers

Nomad

Baldrick, depends on whether you want to become one of the NWO zombies
or retain your own free will with a guaranteed future.
There are numerous Biblical references to the mark of the beast & his number 666.
Rev16:2 quote" so the first (angel) went and poured out his bowl upon the earth and a foul & loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast
(in forehead or back of hand) and those who worshipped his image.
For the searchers there are these other following references:
Rev 13:16, 13:17, 14:9, 14:11, 15:2, 19:20, 20:4 & others.
The NWO mob has a far better idea of prophecy than most of the sheeple &
they are busy preparing the greatest deception known to man and shall collapse
& be destroyed same as all the other great empires thru history together with those who run with them.
Bit OFF TOPIC I know but so is credit card fraud. I await the flack!

I dont do doorknocks Willem & I still go 4wding.
I do however know that all those things prophesied have come to pass in their
due time & you must have your eyes shut or blinkers on if you think that the
Patriot Act, Homeland Security etc in the US & the incarceration without trial
on command of the Pres GWB is not a warning of more to come together with the
censorship of the Ten Commandments in public places.
Its a worry to see our PM Howard grinning madly everywhere he goes & signing up
deals with GWB, level playing field indeed!!
But what other earthly choice do we have ATM?

Ianmc and Captain

...there must be a God and he lives at the NAB. We got stung on our card while interstate for $7k+ on one transaction recently and they rang us when we walked in the door to say they had picked up on the fraud. The bank had it all fixed up and new cards issued within 2wks as they said they would.

They said it was scammed like Tom wrote in his earlier post, persistently calling up computer-generated numbers until the offenders strike pay dirt. Nothing at all to do with leaving cards unattended in restaurants, although that is a worry with so many illegals and visa-overstayers working in kitchens.

Kevin M